My thoughts about Sam and Jack in the third movie (spec and spoilers)

[never_on_earth]

Well, I've been an S/J shipper from the beginning, so I'm a bit biased. But I think the reason why the sam/jack pairing is so *special* for stargate shippers, and has so much success, is because of the way it had been handle in the show. I mean, stargate is a sci-fi, action, discovery, comradship show. And romance is just a backround but there because shows are meant to raise people imagination. And love, relationships, are a major part of people lives and imagination. The angst and impossibility of sam and jack relationship, the sexual tension, is a fantasy that a lot of people have: a relationship that is so powerful that it hurts. And it is powerful because it hurts. It's life dialectic.
Anyhow, I don't know if what I say is clear enough, but even though I respect every point of view, I don't think anyone can undermise or scorn sam/jack shippers passion about it.

I'm not a very passionate shipper, well not anymore because I've been watching the show for a very long time, and I was just a little girl when I started And I consider the confirmation has been made long ago (threads), in my mind anyway.

But I'd still love having an undoubtful confirmation in the 3rd movie. But not a scene at the beginning, or at the end. Maybe a little one in the middle, but what would be good IMO would just be a behaviour all along that makes the nature of they relationship transpire. Nothing to spoil the movie of course.

Because what I love in stargate SG1 are firstly the team-dynamic, the action and the wonders of discovery, and the way everything wraps up added with the links it makes with scientific theories about time travel, parallel universes, galaxies and extraterrestrial existence, stirring our imagination.

Woop! It was a lot longer that I thought it would be

[Rac80]

As long as they don't pull an Unending, I don't mind how they get together, as long as they do. FOR GOOD. No time travelling or whatever.

They deserve it. And so do we!

Yep i don't want a big reset button being pushed!

SG1 never mirrored a real life (that's why they've been doing SGU). If Sam/Jack relationship was handled a bit unrealistically, that's probably why. It's also possible that TPTB just could not make up their mind.
I would love to have conformation in 3rd movie. I think it'll be something in a middle but 'cause I'm soooo sick of subtlety I'm rather expecting something like a kiss or a declaration I'm sure, that it won't dominate the main plot, though. SG1 never meant to be a love story and I don't think it'll change.

I too want a simple but undeniable confirmation... Sam being adressed as Col. Carter-O'Neill (or simply Col. Oneill), them being woken up in bed together by a phone call, referring to their "home" or "house", I can think of a dozen small ways we could get undeniable confirmation without it taking over the movie. That would be enough for me.

by 'it' i think, that by and large, this'll be the last SG1 movie.

i think this movie - if it ever gets made - will be the last with the original crew, and possibly the last ever. SGU simply isn't popular enough to pull the ratings to get money invested into the franchise. SGA won't be used, i don't think.
I think this movie is SG1's last hurrah. That's the 'it' i'm referring to.

What i would hope is, whenever they realize that the movie will never be made, they don't keep that script locked up forever until it's useless and wasted. I hope they release the script or get someone to novelize it and release it as a novel.

SG1, as a franchise, is basically over. This is its ending. SGA is over. I don't think there'll ever be a movie. TPTB seem to want to forget that they ever made a show. and I think SGU's days are numbered.

So, for shippers, this movie is their last chance to get what TPTB have been teasing them with for years.

I agree about the effect of SGU's ratings on the franchise. I also agree that the SGA movie is not going to happen. so i want to see the SG1 movie tie up the loose ends between sam and jack with no ambiguousness. (HA!!! believe it or not that is actually spelled right!)

[leiasky]

My thoughts:

We'll get that confirmation if the movie is made.

[Frostfox]

The one thing that strikes me about this....some hate the ship, others don't.

but, you know, no one person's or group's preferences are any more 'right' than another's.

If you're going to allow the presence or absence of confirmation to 'ruin the movie for me'....that's your problem.

They're gonna do what they're gonna do. And, no matter what they do, someone will be ticked off. Because it's 'there', because it's 'too shippy', because it's 'not shippy enough' because it's 'not there'.....literally those will be the complaints no matter what they do.

There is no one 'perfect' way to end it. There is no singular 'right' way to end it.

I see so many people arguing with the passion that seems to indicate that this inclusion/non-inclusion of ship will be a personal insult to them, that it'll keep them awake at night, that they'll be unforgivably insulted and hurt...and I just shake my head.

NONE of us are right, and NONE of us are wrong. And no matter what they do, someone will hate it. we are, by and large, 'victims' of whatever games TPTB want to play.

And they're gonna do: whatever they want to do, whatever the actors consent to doing, whatever the network will let them do, not necessarily in that order.

What they won't do is do something just to personally tweak off any single segment of the fandom, or to please any single segment of the fandom.

SG1 and it's fandom is a tiny part of my fannish life. Conrunning, fanzines, LJ, books, many other things come much higher up my fannish priority list, Corflu in March, Portmeirion for gaming in April, Eastercon, also in April (need to get more art finished for art show Real Soon Now) all take priority. It's a minor diversion, I joined SG1 fandom for the slash, stuck around because I made fannish friends here and on LJ.
I cut my online teeth in RASFF (rec.arts.sf.fandom) on Usenet where putting forward your thesis and defending it was de rigueur.
So I'll not lose sleep over the third film or what TPTB do in it but I won't sit back and not voice a valid opinion either.

FF

[VSS]

by 'it' i think, that by and large, this'll be the last SG1 movie.

i think this movie - if it ever gets made - will be the last with the original crew, and possibly the last ever. SGU simply isn't popular enough to pull the ratings to get money invested into the franchise. SGA won't be used, i don't think.

I think this movie is SG1's last hurrah. That's the 'it' i'm referring to.

What i would hope is, whenever they realize that the movie will never be made, they don't keep that script locked up forever until it's useless and wasted. I hope they release the script or get someone to novelize it and release it as a novel.

SG1, as a franchise, is basically over. This is its ending. SGA is over. I don't think there'll ever be a movie. TPTB seem to want to forget that they ever made a show. and I think SGU's days are numbered.

So, for shippers, this movie is their last chance to get what TPTB have been teasing them with for years.

Well, this is exactly what I've been thinking for the last few months. It's sad to see the franchise come to an end, but it did have a really stellar run.

Anyway, another thing in SG-1's favor over SGA is that we still occasionally see most of the main characters from that series on SGU. So not only are they still present in the minds of the viewers, it seems like they're still "out there" doing things that would warrant a story. A fan who is entirely new to the franchise at least has heard of Sam, Daniel and Jack. To some of them, the SG-1 movie would be more like a spin-off of SGU.

And if TPTB wanted to draw those fans into the movie they might even drop some more of those S/J teasers on SGU. Since SGU is more character-driven, with really quite a lot of time spent on the character's personal relationships, it wouldn't be out of place. It'll be interesting to see if Jack gets a bigger role in the next season of SGU. I think Carlyle mentioned that he'd be more of a recurring character, though I don't know if he meant this season or next.

[Khentkawes]

Dealing with the ship wars for way too long, i can understand shippers wanting something overt, at the same time i can see why others don't' want it.

For shippers, some have been called liars to their faces for years because they are interpreting things the way they want to see them (ie seeing a scene as a shippy moment) while those that don't' like the pairing will just as vehemently argue 'no, it didn't mean that, it meant this......'

After 10+ years of being told that they're wrong, liars, stupid, juvenile, etc, i can see why they want the confirmation. Why they want to get something undeniable to say 'see!!!!!!'

And, for those that simply hate the ship and hate 'losing', i can see why they don't want to see that. Just as i can see those that simply don't' like the ship not wanting an angle to overtake the show.

I find it interesting that you suggest some fans simply "hate losing." Personally, I think that's something of an oversimplification. I also feel like I've dealt with these "ship wars" for way too long. I don't even know when or where they started, because that was all long before my time. But there's one thing I'm pretty sure of... there are no "winners" in this whole mess, only a lot of "losers." All of us (no matter what side of this debate you fall on) who have had to deal with heated arguments, rudeness, and antagonism are losers. We've all lost.

It's not just the shippers who have been told that they're wrong. Those who don't want to see the ship are also told that they are wrong, delusional, stupid, and juvenile. Funny, isn't it, how there are always casualties on both sides?

TPTB will write what they want to write, and I can't fault them for that. For them, it's a creative endeavor and it's business. It's certainly not a personal slight to any fan group. But it's the fans (from all sides of the argument) who made it personal. Fans are all people with their own preferences for what they want to see and what they find entertaining. They all have valid reasons for wanting what they want. And I can't really fault any fans for that either. What I can fault the fans for is turning different interpretations into a battle over who is "right." Since when is being "right" the end all and be all of watching TV?

No matter what happens with Sam and Jack in the third movie, some fans will be upset. Which is natural. Very few things are universally popular. I suspect that if the movie is made there will probably be something resembling a shippy moment, and it will probably be too subtle for some fans and too overt for others. Will it affect my personal enjoyment of the movie? Yes. I have my preferences, just like everyone else. Will the inclusion or exclusion of S/J romance influence whether I buy the movie? Yes. Along with other factors.

But no matter how the movie plays out, even if it is written exactly according to my preferences... I will still have "lost." I've already "lost" simply because the fandom "debate" about ship/shippers/anti-shippers is one of the reasons that I've lost interest (and lost enjoyment) in SG-1.

Ah, well. Welcome to the joys of internet fandom, I suppose.

[IrishPisano]

i would like to see the movie start off with Jack and Carter on vacation in Hawai'i... together... on a secret getaway in order to conceal their relationship from the military... and Carter ends up preggers with JackJack..............

Carter ends up being kidnapped by some alien race... perhaps a remnant of the Goa'uld hoping to use the child as a host to restart their race....

that would be the setup



imagine it: Jack gets a call: "Sir, your wife and child have been kidnapped by the Goa'uld."

you think Daniel was pissed when Sha're was absconded...... imagine what Jack would do...

[flynn1959]

i would like to see the movie start off with Jack and Carter on vacation in Hawai'i... together... on a secret getaway in order to conceal their relationship from the military... and Carter ends up preggers with JackJack..............

Carter ends up being kidnapped by some alien race... perhaps a remnant of the Goa'uld hoping to use the child as a host to restart their race....

that would be the setup



imagine it: Jack gets a call: "Sir, your wife and child have been kidnapped by the Goa'uld."

you think Daniel was pissed when Sha're was absconded...... imagine what Jack would do...

Oh, that would be wonderful wouldn't it. Two military officers old enough to be grandparents sneaking around having a sordid little affair that is against regulations ending in an illigitimate birth.

Now that is a movie I can wait to see - forever.

[Ashizuri]

imagine it: Jack gets a call: "Sir, your wife and child have been kidnapped by the Goa'uld."

you think Daniel was pissed when Sha're was absconded...... imagine what Jack would do...

If Jack got the call that his wife had been kidnapped, they wouldn't be hiding their affair.

But no. No thanks. I'm hoping for something a bit more subtle.

[leiasky]

If Jack got the call that his wife had been kidnapped, they wouldn't be hiding their affair.

Excellent point

I certainly hope Brad and Carl are above 'damsel in distress' storytelling. It's not something I'm at all interested in seeing.

But no. No thanks. I'm hoping for something a bit more subtle.

As am I.

[Skydiver]

subtle would be good. Like i said, each wearing rings, sam responding to colonel o'neill (or not responding), a wedding photo on a desk. there but not a major plot focus.

[leiasky]

subtle would be good. Like i said, each wearing rings, a wedding photo on a desk. there but not a major plot focus.

Exactly. There for those that want to see it but not in your face for those who would rather see 'team' interaction and nothing else.

[mapsc]

I think confirming S/J would be considered a big deal by TPTB. As Martin Gero said, "it's a franchise issue". I don't think it would be a subtle "blink and you miss it" reference. Nor should it.

Mike

[VSS]

I think confirming S/J would be considered a big deal by TPTB. As Martin Gero said, "it's a franchise issue". I don't think it would be a subtle "blink and you miss it" reference. Nor should it.

Mike

That's probably true. I've always thought MG's comment meant that someone (probably BW) higher up the food chain decided to take out that scene and deal with it in his own way. In the past, that has meant years of letting it simmer and then suddenly turning up the heat all at once, so to speak.

[flynn1959]

I think confirming S/J would be considered a big deal by TPTB. As Martin Gero said, "it's a franchise issue". I don't think it would be a subtle "blink and you miss it" reference. Nor should it.

Mike

My thoughts on this are why? And why?

Why would confirming S/J be a big deal? Other than the fact that it would show the characters, and by extension the US military, in a very bad light and even that doesn't seem relevant anymore. After all the Sam and Jack in the movies won't be the real S/J will they? I've lost track of all the AU/AT etc but there is no way that any of the characters are the same ones that started season one! Don't you agree?


Why do people who ship S/J even feel the need for confirmation? None of the fans of other pairings do. I mean people have been slashing Jack and Daniel since the first movie, there is a vast amount of fan fiction devoted to that ship, endless websites, fan art, fans, heck even the actors themselves played into it to a much greater extent than they did S/J. It has been talked about at cons at least as much as the S/J ship, maybe more, even mentioned on the episode commentaries, and yet J/D fans are not clamouring for confirmation, far from it! What make S/J worthy of more than a blink and you miss it confirmation above all the other ships?