My thoughts about Sam and Jack in the third movie (spec and spoilers)

[Frostfox]

The potential ended in threads.

Which was when? 2005? So five years ago.
Even if they start shooting today, it would late 2010/2011 before all post production is done and the film is released.
And it could be much later than that. One of the cast and I think the proposed director have 20 episodes of their own TV show to do. MGM is still in limbo, it could be months or even years before it is up and producing again. The Stargate franchise could be sold off to some other company who might well want to bring in their own staff to write/produce/shoot a film.

So they will be trying to revive at the very least 6+ year dead plot line that was never much cop to start with. Troi/Riker? That dead horse haunted TNG for years. We are heading that way too.
Story lines have their natural course, trying to extend one indefinitely wrecks any credulity in the characters and bores the fans who will have drifted off into other, dynamic fandoms with still active shows.

FF

[CaramelMonkey]

As long as they don't pull an Unending, I don't mind how they get together, as long as they do. FOR GOOD. No time travelling or whatever.

They deserve it. And so do we!

[maxbo]

Well, they've clearly raised the expectations of S/J shippers so there has to be some type of confirmation in the 3rd movie, however, I hope TPTB handle this confirmation in such as way that it doesn't overshadow other elements in the movie. For instance, I don't believe that confirmation should be in the very first scene or the very last scene because I think that could be a bit much for non-shippers. Confirmation somewhere in between would be better, IMO.

My main concern is that TPTB doesn't have a good track record of confirming ships well, or with a subtle hand, so they could end up pissing off shippers and non-shippers alike.

[Frostfox]

Well, they've clearly raised the expectations of S/J shippers so there has to be some type of confirmation in the 3rd movie, however, I hope TPTB handle this confirmation in such as way that it doesn't overshadow other elements in the movie. For instance, I don't believe that confirmation should be in the very first scene or the very last scene because I think that could be a bit much for non-shippers. Confirmation somewhere in between would be better, IMO.

My main concern is that TPTB doesn't have a good track record of confirming ships well, or with a subtle hand, so they could end up pissing off shippers and non-shippers alike.

No one relationship on the show should take precedence over the Team. Sam and Jack are not more important than Teal'c, Daniel, Vala, Jonas or Cam. Sam and Jack's relationship is not more important than Sam's relationship with Teal'c or Daniel. Ditto Jack's relationships.

Dull romances are ten a penny on TV. The love, honour and respect shared between all the members of SG1 is the real magic, it's this which kept the show on the air for 10 years, not Sam making goo goo eyes at her superior officer and scuppering her career or Jack looking uncomfortable as hell every time anything to do with a normal emotional reaction to his supposed love comes into the script.

Yeah, yeah, we know the hero would die for his woman. Yawn, yeah, okay, we read the book/saw the film/bought the Hallmark card.
How much more interesting, noble is it to die for a comrade in arms? Or even someone you don't know? That's what makes soldiers (firemen, lifeboatmen, policemen etc) so special and so brave, they put their life on the line not just for their family but for strangers, because it is the right thing to do.

I do, however get very tired of TPTB jerking the chain of the S/J fans, they do it again and again and again. They did it with relationships on Atlantis too. And that, I think, is wrong, disrespectful to their fanbase and absolutely unnecessary. Better to say nothing than fail to deliver on a promise.

FF

[maxbo]

No one relationship on the show should take precedence over the Team. Sam and Jack are not more important than Teal'c, Daniel, Vala, Jonas or Cam. Sam and Jack's relationship is not more important than Sam's relationship with Teal'c or Daniel. Ditto Jack's relationships.

Dull romances are ten a penny on TV. The love, honour and respect shared between all the members of SG1 is the real magic, it's this which kept the show on the air for 10 years, not Sam making goo goo eyes at her superior officer and scuppering her career or Jack looking uncomfortable as hell every time anything to do with a normal emotional reaction to his supposed love comes into the script.

Yeah, yeah, we know the hero would die for his woman. Yawn, yeah, okay, we read the book/saw the film/bought the Hallmark card.
How much more interesting, noble is it to die for a comrade in arms? Or even someone you don't know? That's what makes soldiers (firemen, lifeboatmen, policemen etc) so special and so brave, they put their life on the line not just for their family but for strangers, because it is the right thing to do.

I do, however get very tired of TPTB jerking the chain of the S/J fans, they do it again and again and again. They did it with relationships on Atlantis too. And that, I think, is wrong, disrespectful to their fanbase and absolutely unnecessary. Better to say nothing than fail to deliver on a promise.

FF

Indeed. The Team should never take a back seat to any one relationship and I hope TPTB realize this for the movie because I would hate to see them write Sam and Jack the way they wrote the McKay/Keller ship. I still shudder thinking about SGA's last scene because it was like the Team (Sheppard, Teyla, Ronon, Carson and Woolsey) were a group of strangers sharing the balconey with the lovebirds, McKay and Keller. And, as if that visual wasn't enough, they threw in cheesy "all I need is you" dialogue between the lovebirds.

And, I also agree that the *real magic* of SG-1 and the main reason for its popularity and longevity is the chemistry between the Team, not romance or the possibilty of romance. TPTB would do well to remember this.

I'm also sick of way TPTB keep jerking the chain of the Sam/Jack shippers (and other shippers) and wish they would have left well enough alone because I believe they only made things worse when they tried to write ship for Sam and Jack because these guys just don't write romance well. The sucked trying to write romance on SG-1, they sucked trying to write romance on SGA and now they're sucking trying to write romance on SGU, so, I'm concerned about how they're going to handle the S/J confirmation in this movie. I hope they surprise me and do a good, subtle job.

[majorsal]

[...] I'm concerned about how they're going to handle the S/J confirmation in this movie. I hope they surprise me and do a good, subtle job.

i'm concerned too, but not for your reason probably.

there's a lot of years of waiting for me, so that builds up some expectations. i'm concerned i won't be satisfied, *especially* if it's lack luster or ambiguous or extremely subtle.

beginning, end, or somewhere in between; just have it there!

thinking about it (only, like, everyday ) has made me come to the conclusion that a KISS would seal the deal quite well.

[Skydiver]

subtle?

i'm afraid these boys have all the subtly of a pregnant cow on ice.

Honestly? I'll believe it when i see it. I've lost count of the number of times they've promised something and not delivered...or what the writers interpret as 'a shippy scene' fans usually go 'huh? that was it?'

[Frostfox]

Indeed. The Team should never take a back seat to any one relationship and I hope TPTB realize this for the movie because I would hate to see them write Sam and Jack the way they wrote the McKay/Keller ship. I still shudder thinking about SGA's last scene because it was like the Team (Sheppard, Teyla, Ronon, Carson and Woolsey) were a group of strangers sharing the balconey with the lovebirds, McKay and Keller. And, as if that visual wasn't enough, they threw in cheesy "all I need is you" dialogue between the lovebirds.

And, I also agree that the *real magic* of SG-1 and the main reason for its popularity and longevity is the chemistry between the Team, not romance or the possibilty of romance. TPTB would do well to remember this.

I'm also sick of way TPTB keep jerking the chain of the Sam/Jack shippers (and other shippers) and wish they would have left well enough alone because I believe they only made things worse when they tried to write ship for Sam and Jack because these guys just don't write romance well. The sucked trying to write romance on SG-1, they sucked trying to write romance on SGA and now they're sucking trying to write romance on SGU, so, I'm concerned about how they're going to handle the S/J confirmation in this movie. I hope they surprise me and do a good, subtle job.

subtle?

i'm afraid these boys have all the subtly of a pregnant cow on ice.

Honestly? I'll believe it when i see it. I've lost count of the number of times they've promised something and not delivered...or what the writers interpret as 'a shippy scene' fans usually go 'huh? that was it?'

Yep, they are really bad at writing convincing romance. They're just too heavy handed and what they come out with is just not convincing as how adults act.
Would two mature officers in the USAF behave like Sam and Jack? Of course not. They looked like high school students with all the constipated looks and supposedly meaningful glances, all this 'sekrit luv' rubbish makes you think of teenage girls scribbling on their text books.

Spoiler:

Now I have an image of them filming Sam practicing her 'Samantha O'Neil' signature on a top secret document. With a little love heart on the dot of the 'i' of course. In a pink pen.

Real people leave that stage behind in their teens or early twenties.
It's the same with the juvenile stuff between Daniel and Vala. Normal adults just don't act like that.
As soon as they attempted to make any romance overt, it was appalling, hackneyed and intrusive to the real show, SG1.
So I have no faith that they will do any better if the third film happens.

FF

[kusanagi]

SG1 never mirrored a real life (that's why they've been doing SGU). If Sam/Jack relationship was handled a bit unrealistically, that's probably why. It's also possible that TPTB just could not make up their mind.
I would love to have conformation in 3rd movie. I think it'll be something in a middle but 'cause I'm soooo sick of subtlety I'm rather expecting something like a kiss or a declaration I'm sure, that it won't dominate the main plot, though. SG1 never meant to be a love story and I don't think it'll change.

[Linda06]

They've got all the subtlety of a sledgehammer

[kusanagi]

They've got all the subtlety of a sledgehammer

That's another story, I guess

[jelgate]

I'll believe it when I see it. Its wishful thinking hoping for more then maybe a scene or two about jack/sam. Maybe something around what Continuum saw

[Tachyon]

As a S/J shipper I would prefer something really subtle; a clear, yet somewhat random sign of them being an item. Not anything syrupy, since romance isn't really my genre and SG-1 isn't about Jack and Sam alone.

[Skydiver]

Dealing with the ship wars for way too long, i can understand shippers wanting something overt, at the same time i can see why others don't' want it.

For shippers, some have been called liars to their faces for years because they are interpreting things the way they want to see them (ie seeing a scene as a shippy moment) while those that don't' like the pairing will just as vehemently argue 'no, it didn't mean that, it meant this......'

After 10+ years of being told that they're wrong, liars, stupid, juvenile, etc, i can see why they want the confirmation. Why they want to get something undeniable to say 'see!!!!!!'

And, for those that simply hate the ship and hate 'losing', i can see why they don't want to see that. Just as i can see those that simply don't' like the ship not wanting an angle to overtake the show. I can understand the concern that movie 3 (IF it EVER gets made) might be the grand romance ending in a wedding...oh yeah, daniel and teal'c are there too....(honestly, i don't think it'll be that way)

I think, IF the writers do - for once - follow through and do what they're saying they're gonna do, and actually produce something that they say is shippy - and the viewers agree - it's gonna be something vague.

it'll be sam and jack wearing rings, it'll be the movie starting with two people on a dock answering the phone, getting called back to colorado, it'll be a quip about one character being tired, then the other being tired and mmhm, wonder how come both of them had a sleepless night last night....or it'd be someone saying 'colonel o'neill', jack responds and the person says 'no, her'. or there'll be a wedding photo on jack's desk.

and that's likely all it'll be. I will be astonishingly shocked if there's a wedding or 3 minute long declaration of love.

I know some shippers will never be happy unless there is something long and overt...but I think a lot of them will be happy with something simple but undeniable. something that can't be interpreted any other way than 'they're together'. something that they cant' be called liars or stupid or juvenile for seeing. (of course, there are some anti-ship fans that will always hate and deny it....so be it.) there are passionate feelings on all sides.

I think, whatever happens, it'll be something simple but undeniable. Something that isn't vague like 'i'm dating a guy in washington'.

[flynn1959]

For shippers, some have been called liars to their faces for years because they are interpreting things the way they want to see them (ie seeing a scene as a shippy moment) while those that don't' like the pairing will just as vehemently argue 'no, it didn't mean that, it meant this......'

After 10+ years of being told that they're wrong, liars, stupid, juvenile, etc, i can see why they want the confirmation. Why they want to get something undeniable to say 'see!!!!!!'

The exact same thing, and worse, has been happening to the anti shippers for the exact same amount of time. So I guess you can see why the anti shippers don't want confirmation. My thoughts on Sam and Jack, or indeed ANY of the many, many, many different ships that people want, don't want, to see, in the third movie? Leave them all just as they are, let people see what they want, or don't want, to see.

Just because one group of fans of one particular pairing want/need to be able to to say 'see!!!!!!' doesn't mean that TPTB should pander to them, if that was the case then the entire movie would consist of people pairing up, doing the dirty and moving on to the next man/women/being. Heck, they would need ten movies to fit all of the possible pairings in, and over the past thirteen odd years all possible pairing have had their share of fans.

As I said best to leave Sam and Jack just as they are, workmates and friends.IMO.