Babylon (908)

[JudeMorrigan]

So...wait...these Jaffa learned how to BUILD Ancient technology. Thousands of years ago.... and still lived in huts...Err..... I find this immensly implausible. In order to build such incredibly advanced technology, you'd need a great deal of stuff that they just didn't have! Unless the Ancients had Replicators (a la Star Trek) and they just pushed a few buttons.

At first, I had something of the same thought, but thinking about it, I'm not sure I agree within the Stargate universe. Namely, I watched the episode "The Nox" tonight and it struck me that to the uninformed viewer, the Nox appear to have an even lower level of living than the Sodan, and they're advanced enough to have been allies with the Ancients and the Asgard. And I'll also note that the Sodan have the ability to make things (or themselves at the very least) invisible, as the Nox do. It doesn't seem wholly inconceivable to me that the Sodan might have industry that they simply didn't let Mitchell see. Of course, one might think that the guy who trained Mitchell might have mentioned that to him, but then again, who know?

[Simhavaktra]

Just my unhappy reactions to Babylon...


I’m wondering when those outstanding leadership skills of Mitchell’s are going to put in a visible appearance. Babylon was supposed to be a ‘Mitchell’ show, and, indeed, the show was pretty much Mitchell’s Martial Arts, with a few bits of everyone else thrown in as spacers between the Mitchell segments. But, after Babylon, I’m still not seeing leadership in Mitchell. I still have that urge to swat the boy and send him off to get the green scrubbed off him and take some remedial military training.

In the beginning of the ep, we get to see Mitchell, who wanted to be on SG-1 to learn from the best, acting like he’s just along for the ride, and this whole mission isn’t any of his concern, or any reason for him to be concerned. He appears to be chomping gum. He’s strolling along like he hasn’t a care in the world, not watching his surroundings and keeping alert like he’s under orders, on a mission and on another planet. He’s talking when other people are trying to listen for unexpected sounds. He’s shooting his gun from the hip like an Action Adventure Hero™ instead of holding it and firing it like a trained US Air Force airman. In short, he’s an amateur, and he reminds me of that hoary old plot device, the civilian who gets to ride along with the police/military, and, of course, ends up in trouble thereby.

Of course, at that point in the plot, Mitchell IS a plot device, a clumsy plot device that’s trying to get itself captured so the ‘real story’ can begin. My objection is that he’s so obviously a plot device. After all the ballyhoo, self-congratulation, hype, quotes, interviews, and advertising to which TPTB subjected the fanbase and the general Sci Fi viewer/reader community upon signing Ben Browder to appear in Stargate, couldn’t they have at least done him the courtesy of writing and presenting his character a little better? Make him look more like a US Air Force officer and professional warrior instead of like an amateur who happened to fit the costume?

Throughout most of this ep I couldn’t decide if I felt more like I was watching a stunted episode of Kung Fu, outtakes of The Last Samurai, or just a flashback from Highlander that had been deleted for cause during editing. The village of the Oriental farmers under the rule of the Sodan was visually lovely, but – lacking in imagination and forethought in concept and execution. Why do Oriental extras always seem to be the proper inhabitants for martial arts themed locales? Is there some attitude in television production that says the audience won’t understand we’re talking martial arts unless we do it in an Oriental setting? In previous seasons I had been pleased that Bra’tac could teach Teal’c Jaffa martial arts without a single Jaffa or human of Oriental descent traipsing through the scenes, and Teal’c could teach Krista without invoking the ‘Martial Arts are an Oriental Thing’ stereotype. It’s rare to see one without the other on episodic television, and I was most pleased with Stargate for bucking that cliché. But, there it was in Babylon: the lordly Samurai Sodan and their Oriental Agrarian Workforce and probable bamboo artifact fabricators, living in their cute settlement based on feudal Japan. One would think, without the Goa’uld to stultify their development, and with the freedom to travel long distances afforded by the Stargate network and the Ancient/Alteran transporter technology, their society would have developed trading networks, educational (even if just in the martial arts) opportunities, widespread cultural interactions, maybe even tourism , and thus depart, quite visibly, from the feudal template, but, nope. It’s just feudal Japan on another planet, Jaffa Samurai and Oriental women and kids doing the agricultural labor and toting baskets through the town square. Gods. If all Jaffa are this dull of imagination and developmentally challenged at the societal level, it bodes ill for the Free Jaffa Nation, doesn’t it?

And, to add to the lack of fun, the martial arts sequences in the ep were lame, lame in conception, dull of dialogue, and filmed with a firm lack of creativity. In far less than 2 weeks, Mitchell was supposedly well enough healed of an infected staff-weapon-blast wound to do all that running and staff work and pontificating – but it never occurred to him that this medicine and medical care he was receiving might be of value, or at least of interest, to Earth, and he might therefore bring up the subject? Especially when the staff wound was apparently healing so well and the cuts on his face weren’t healing at all. Meanwhile, the blades of those cran… igge? tuh? berry? (sorry, I seem to have a Jack O’Neill-style mental block going with the names and terms in this ep) whatever staffs are laughable. All those notches and multiple blades will do nothing but catch on clothing and accoutrements and other weapons and bones, and the weapon is going to get stuck, and probably yanked out of the user’s hands, no matter how putatively cool it looks. Meanwhile, what’s-his-name (as I said, Jack O’Neill block with the names and terms in this ep!) appears to be teaching Mitchell only one form/kata/exercise. This will not be a useful education in the fighting arts if Mitchell’s future opponent doesn’t use attacks that call for just those specific counters Mitchell is learning in that form. Of course, since what’s-his-name will be that future opponent, this might be calculated, on his part, and maybe a good move from his point of view, but Mitchell is supposed to be a trained warrior, graduate of the Air Force Academy, seasoned officer and all that good stuff – shouldn’t he catch on that there has to be more to this staff fighting than what’s-his-name is trying to pound into him? Apparently not. Maybe Mitchell’s just too busy trying to counter-proselytize the Sodan about the Orii to be able to apply himself to the martial arts, despite the impending duel to the (his) death. Or maybe not. Even Mitchell sounded like he was just going through the motions saying all that to his sensei. Considering how dull the lines are, maybe that’s a natural reaction. Mitchell himself, dare I say it, bored me in Babylon. The sparring sessions in the Sodan scenes were boring too – the director and fight arranger failed to take the opportunity to film the staff sparring as more than just thwacking and poking and dialogue. Instead of letting the fighting itself reveal more about the characters, the dialogue had to do that – execute the same series of moves and counters in the same way yet again, break, get a drink, and recite more dialogue. Mitchell didn’t pick up spare moves that what’s-his-name made, thus demonstrating how fast he learns, nor try more than one move that what’s-his-name didn’t teach him to show the audience that he has skills in hand to hand combat beyond the rough and tumble rolling around he demonstrated in the opening, which might have reassured me a little that Mitchell has the skills in ground/infantry operations/combat that an SG team leader needs. He’s still looking like he’s in ‘me ace fighter pilot, you – by which I mean everybody and everything else – not’ mode to me. And what was that thing about Airborne training? USAF pilots learn to parachute as part of their own training, and a primary skill of flying an aircraft doesn’t immediately spring to mind as a logical reason that someone would train as a fighter who specializes in arriving at battles by jumping out of aircraft, nor that the SGC would need military paratroopers for Gate teams.

Then again, Sam Carter is the only military character in this whole ep who actually comes across as a professional military officer, running a mission and doing her job, and that despite her being in the ep for such a short time that one began amusing oneself with designs for rationing cards for the apparent Carter conservation going on in the ep. Mitchell plays the happy-to-be-oblivious day hiker trekking through the woods and the guy from a culture we know stuck in a tough situation by and with a culture we don’t know, and follows up by mixing his branches of service. Landry is sounding like a petulant executive who doesn’t want to be dinged on his monthly profit target when he’s talking about declaring Mitchell MIA, and just plain petulant dealing with Lam. (What happened to the writing that could give Hammond very similar lines and leave the impression that come hell or high water the SGC was going to make the deadline and get their guy back, and the general was going to be right in there making it happen, if only by stalling the suits as long as possible so the resident geniuses could get the job done? Hammond came off as concerned and involved and committed to his people – Landry comes off as committed to looking good as he makes his report at the quarterly meeting.) And Dr. Lam… civilian or not, could someone just send a memo to TPTB bringing up the possibility that the way Landry and Lam have been acting may be one of the reasons that a daughter, in the service or not, wouldn’t be allowed to serve under her father’s command in such a capacity in the real military, because it affects the parties’ working relationship and job performance when they’re at odds? And then the act-like-professionals Fairy Godmother could go ahead and magic-wand some sense into the general and doctor both? Or General Hammond could give both of them a talking to? The kind of carrying on between purported professionals that these two have shown so far is painful to watch, embarrassing to think of happening in a top military command, and disrespectful of the responsible positions the two characters portray. And it leads me to wonder what’s become of the Air Force consultant, and what did he, or she, think of the commanding general and his daughter and their unprofessional behavior toward each other in this and preceding eps this season?

The ending of this ep only helped me dislike it. As soon as what’s-his-name showed up to tend Mitchell’s wound, and mentioned the duel, I knew he was going to be Mitchell’s opponent. (Hmm. Maybe he was teaching Mitchell to telegraph his blows????) And the ‘alien-curare’, faking the reluctantly transgressor’s death angle was equally and thoroughly not a surprise. Did makes me wonder how committed the stickler Sodan sensei really is to the traditions of his people if he’d throw a ritual combat that’s such a long standing part of those traditions, though. The most potentially dramatic scene of the ep – when the brothers are reunited, each knowing what he’s done to get to that point, and each disappointed in what his brother has done – wasn’t even in the ep.

Maybe the SGC could run Mitchell through the courses a few times at that off-world training center mentioned in Proving Ground before the next ep? Please??

[Shep'sSocks]

I'm wondering how many of those who are criticising Mitchell's military expertise are in the military or have experience of same?

[vikingjedi]

Decent ripoff of the movie "The Last Samurai".

- Kills one of the warriors in self defense? Check

- Taken away to their village? Check

- Has to prove himself to gain honor? Check

- Learns to use a new weapon? Check

- Gets beaten often while learning? Check

- Eventually gets better and ties the teacher? Check

- Leaves after he has made a friend? Check

[PrimalAscended]

I know alot of people have qualms about military stuff in the show, like how to shoot a gun, Sam calling Mitchell Cam etc..........I've never been involved in the military so it don't bother me. However, medical inaccuracies can be annoying to me (like Xrays viewed upside down, or CPR and defibrillation performed on a clothed patient) and this week Lam threw one up that I gotta share. In "The Powers That Be" she says her speciality is infectious disease and she's worked with the CDC, yet in this ep she is performing major surgery for over 9 hours on the captured Sodan!!! This woman must be a medical wunderkind..........does the SGC not have a medical staff with varying specialities???

Ok, I know its not a major thing but hey, just wanted to point it out

[scifiannie]

Maybe Mitchell’s just too busy trying to counter-proselytize the Sodan about the Orii to be able to apply himself to the martial arts, despite the impending duel to the (his) death.

I thought this was heroic of him. His mind was more on his mission--gathering allies--than on his own fate. The show wasn't about martial arts, it was about the story arc of saving the world from the Ori.

I know you didn't like the ep but I did, despite its flaws (and they were legion). But it gave us more of Mitchell, which can't be bad. I don't like the way Cooper/Wright are handling his character, but anything that gives him more screen time is worth supporting.

[Wandering Tamer]

Decent ripoff of the movie "The Last Samurai".

- Kills one of the warriors in self defense? Check

- Taken away to their village? Check

- Has to prove himself to gain honor? Check

- Learns to use a new weapon? Check

- Gets beaten often while learning? Check

- Eventually gets better and ties the teacher? Check

- Leaves after he has made a friend? Check

Is there a point beyond that? I mean, there's a case to be made tthe "last samurai" took a lot of points from "Dances with wolves."

And you're wrong with the Has to Prove Himself to Gain Honor, thing. He was being trained so he could be killed. That's all. It wasn't about him gaining honor. And as for the Gets beaten often while learning, I'd love to see someone learn a new fighting style and not get beaten when learning. And he didn't tie the teacher, he would have lost horribly in a real fight. They even say that.

[deSaintphalle]

That was nice although I am so over the Jaffa storyline. I find it terribly dull.

Well, its all new to me and I just can't get enough of it -- or perhaps just Teal'c.

I am looking forward to a standoff between Gerak and Lord Haikon. I certainly hope they get to face each other in a coming episode.

[DarkQuee1]

What a bleh episode. Loaded with logic flaws--for one: if the Sodan were known about, how come the System Lords never came looking for them?; re-hashes of other shows, movies (both of which have been remarked upon. And acknowledging the re-use--such as Mitchell's reference to Bones--doesn't make it any less a bore or a rip-off); cliched predictability; and ever-diminishing characters.

What are we supposed to make of Mitchell? Why the heck would they put this man in charge of a field team? He shows yet again that he has absolutely no field experience, knows nothing of recon, stealth, tactics--the list goes on. At the beginning, he could have been on a picnic for all the absence of any indication that he had any idea that they were on a dangerous mission in potentially enemy territory. Yep, he's just the guy I'd want leading me on an Away mission.

Not to mention his behavior toward Teal'c during the opening scene. Mitchell has *no* knowledge of any of this stuff, so why not diss the person on the team with the *most* knowledge about the Jaffa? If I were TEal'c, I would have handed in my SG1 patch as soon as I got back to the SGC; I can't see why TEal'c would want to work with him. (IIRC correctly, Jack virtually never walked second in the group: he was either in the lead, or he was last watching the six. Second is actually a protected position.)

I couldn't help but feel--as they couldn't have Mitchell have the same relationship with TEal'c that Jack did without getting called on it--that a driving force behind this ep was the desire to set up a Jack-Teal'c relationship between Mitchell and the Jaffa (who's name has totally gone walkabout). Notice that this Jaffa actually does *exactly* the same thing that Teal'c did: decide to help a Tau'ri, turning against his leader, in order to "free" his people.


so far, Mitchell has brought nothing to the table except his grandmother. He has not demonstrated a single skill or talent that the team actually needed.

I guess it shows in other ways: no one on the base seemed particularly upset or distraught at his absence. Yes, they would keep trying to get information on his whereabouts, but it seemed to be done more with a shrug than with any genuine concern or liking.

As for the rest of the ep: talk about predictable. Did anyone not know how that his teacher would be his opponent? Or how the situation would turn out?

This season, TPTB seem to be going for tell, not show. We had to have Lam's father stand around telling us that she's the best (apparently she's a frigging genius, since she specializes in infectious diseases but also does world-class surgery). In seven years, did anyone have to tell us how good Janet Fraiser was? Or did we just find out from the work we saw her do? And they still have to explain how the CO's daughter could be accepted as the CMO of the base.

Landry is becoming more of a problem. I didn't mind his gruffness. I do mind the fact that he really doesn't seem to want to do any of the scut work his job requires.

Logically speaking, I have a problem with the Sodan accepting the Ori as the manifestation of the Ancients who helped them. Maybe because you would think that would have noticed that, in 5000 years, the Ancients never showed up or insisted that the Sodan worship them. You would also think that a people who dumped the Goa'uld because they didn't want to be enslaved would be reluctant to jump right into ball and chain, even with the Ancients. The problem is, questions like these never even get raised, much less answered.

The worst thing is that the whole Ori thing is just the same false god stuff all over again, just on a grander scale. I thought this season was supposed to be something new and fresh. And "team". I'm still waiting for all three.

[ping-pong]

[QUOTE=DarkQuee1]I couldn't help but feel--as they couldn't have Mitchell have the same relationship with TEal'c that Jack did without getting called on it--that a driving force behind this ep was the desire to set up a Jack-Teal'c relationship between Mitchell and the Jaffa (who's name has totally gone walkabout). Notice that this Jaffa actually does *exactly* the same thing that Teal'c did: decide to help a Tau'ri, turning against his leader, in order to "free" his people.
[QUOTE]

I noticed that too. However, Mitchell and this Jaffa in "Babylon" cannot even touch the way Jack and Teal'c first bonded in "Children of the Gods" when Teal'c fired on his fellow Jaffa and then threw his staff weapon to Jack and they both took out the Jaffas and freed the prisoners. That was one of the most unforgetable scenes ever in SG1's history of episodes!!

[vikingjedi]

Is there a point beyond that? I mean, there's a case to be made tthe "last samurai" took a lot of points from "Dances with wolves."

And you're wrong with the Has to Prove Himself to Gain Honor, thing. He was being trained so he could be killed. That's all. It wasn't about him gaining honor. And as for the Gets beaten often while learning, I'd love to see someone learn a new fighting style and not get beaten when learning. And he didn't tie the teacher, he would have lost horribly in a real fight. They even say that.

I could be wrong about Mitchell having to gain honor. I was so bored with this episode it was hard for me to keep watching.

But he did tie his teacher in the training session just like Nathan Algren did in the Last Samurai. They even crossed weapons and came to a stop the same way.

Remember the asian children looking on watching Mitchell fail? Thats a direct ripoff of what happened when Algren was training too.

[SG-25B11]

Predictability has always gone hand in hand with anything I've seen on television. Originality is also something I don't look for when watching television either.

Babylon presented to us plenty of new information that is important. More technology built by the Ancients was found. The Sodan's place in the history of the Jaffa was presented and also their possible future. Further capabilities of the Prior's staff was learned. All of this and more was in Babylon and also plenty of character development.

The members of SG-1 are the main characters, but they are not the only characters the show is about. The supporting characters are as important as the main characters. Babylon allowed us to learn more about the characters introduced this season.

From my point of view, every episode of Stargate SG-1 has been important to the series.

[w1cket01]

I thought the episode was alright but they could have done more with the Sodan. I think should the writers put some effort into researching the diversity of human cultures. If they'd spend time fleshing out each faction's culture and creating in effect a path of historical developments for each group when they dream them up, they'd have a better show with much more to work with. They could be doing this already but it's not showing.

All you get is... 5000 years ago we fled and formed this community... 5000 years later.. we're here. Surely many things happened with the Sodan in that period of time. Warriors, poets, rulers, inventors, religions, or internal factions would have eventually arose. The writers seem to portray every culture as homogenous but even 'homogenous' societies have internal diversity.

[Elite Anubis Guard]

This...this..this was fantastic. Now this is what I'm talking about. The Sudan are so cool, I loved this episode. The costume design for this was fantastic, their armour, that special robe that Haikon. The fighting was very cool, I love the choreography for the fights, very reminsent of The Warrior.

I loved the set design for this as well, that mix between hindu and what not. Although I do think it would have been better for the fight scene to have had a score.

The relationship between Mitchell and the Jaffa was really good, and did we all recognise those diddy staffs, have quaint. My favorite episode so far, loved Mitch.

[discodiva]

Yep ...gotta agree....kept both mine and the other half's attention the whole time.....thoroughly enjoyed it...

Deeds xx