Gemini (811)

[Watters87]

What I meant by pay for it Lunar is that now Replicarter and her Replicator army are now invulnerable to the Ancients weapon and now Earth is defenseless against them. This can be construed as Sam's fault. And partly Jack's because he let it go on as long as he did. Sam gave Replicarter access to the weapon with nary a thought to the possibility that she could be playing them. I just don't understand that.

I think Replicarter made a convincing argument at the start of the episode saying she wanted to be destroyed. She knew how to play each of the characters. She kept repeating for them to destroy her. Replicarter has all of Sam’s memories and I think the crucial line is when Jack asked if the feel death. She replies that they feel many things and I think this reasons to them all that even though she is a Replicator she has Sam’s memories and maybe some of her feelings. They could have thought that since Replicarter has Sam’s feeling that she is like Sam and is not bad.

I think they especially Sam is caught between two mind’s here. What if Replicarter is telling the truth and Fifth is immune to the Ancient device. They could test it out because Replicarter is not immune because Fifth suspects that she is abandoning him. What good is the device now? If Fifth came through and the device failed to destroy him, how would Sam feel? She had an opportunity to help remodulate the device to destroy him but passed up the chance. She thought Replicarter was helping. Replicarter had to see how the device worked and see the bits and pieces on how the device worked and then establish a way to find a means to counteract the effects.

To me Sam and to some extent Teal’c made a mistake trusting Replicarter but it wasn’t a blunder as some have seen it. Sam tries to see the good in every one and she thought Replicarter was good because it had her memories and it felt things. Replicarter showed her a tortured Fifth used on her and she told Sam that’s why she turned on Fifth. It was a convincing argument for Sam to trust her IMO.

[SaberBlade]

could someone tell me if RDA was missing from the opening credits? i can remember tapping being the first credited and not RDA and i am not sure if i missed the start of the credits. i would have checked it with Sky Mix but i missed the start of it as well

[Catysg1]

I loved that episode ..the story was fantastic ..the decor , the lightning made everything so nice for the eyes to watch ..Absolutely fab

I love Sam and I will always enjoy to see an episode with her ...

...specially when they are 2 Sam's ..because AT knows how to play the 2 different Sam's so well ...I mean ..look at "Gemini "and how she interpreted Sam and Replicarter ..they looked the same but just by her facial expression , her body language ..she made them look so different ...And she did the same in Point of view , in line of duty and entity .

She is not only superb but a very talented and versatile actress.

Way to go Amanda ..You did a brilliant job ....It must have been hard to make an episode like that one ...and she excelled in it . I will always support what Amanda does in the future ...and RDA too I 'd love to see them both together in a different movie one day



Daniel was not there much but he has his episode next week in Prometheus Unbound. ..so it will be fine ...let's keep up the balance .


I like Teal'c with Sam a lot ..He was as concerned about her safety as Jack was ...and it was so cute to see.

What an Awesome episode


Caty

[Dani347]

But, but, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to hone in on the idea that RC, a replicator was probably lying. Saying she had Sam's feelings and memories and that should make a difference? Well, don't you think that's exactly what she would say? Shouldn't they have thought that this was another trick? I mean, really. RC isn't George Washington at the cherry tree. The idea that she could tell a lie should have been first and foremost in their mind. There's having an open mind about people and there's having a mind so open, it's empty.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

I must admit I'm somewhat surprised by all the negative comments about Sam, here. It's not like Sam hasn't shown a certain level of naivete in past seasons, ie: Prisoners, when she let Linea have access to the base computers, which Linea used to get gate addresses and to escape without trouble.

Jump ahead to Linea, revisited, in Past & Present: When she discovered who "Kira" was, Sam was wary, while Daniel argued passionately for compassion towards Kira.(Was he branded an idiot? Perhaps, but not in any group I was in at the time.)

Ultimately, though, Sam argued for letting Kira continue the work of finding a cure. Why? Because it was the only way to help these people that they - more especially, Sam and Jack - felt responible for.

Yes, they would watch her like hawks, but both she and Janet admitted that Kira's genius far outstipped theirs. Kira could quite easily have fooled them while they watched.

But because that one turned out well, Sam and Janet weren't judged as idiots....

"/

Ditto the time when, in Singularity, she dispbeyed a direct order and remained behind with Cassie. She trusted her intuition then, and everything worked out for the best. Was she an idiot then?

Intuition doesn't always work, though, as Gemini points out.

Sam has shown lapses in judgement in other eps, namely, Bane, when she wanted to go back to Big Honkin' Bug world, Matter of Time, when she wanted to watch SG-10 get pulled like soft taffy into the blackhole, Line of Duty, when she stopped to perform mouth to mouth on a guy while they were under fire. I could go on.

The thing is, it's canon that Sam is like that. Yes, she's military, but she's also a wide-eyed scientist. Yes, she obeys orders, but she is also manipulative - repCarter told her so, and if anyone knows, it's repCarter. Sam gets her way. Mostly that's been a good thing as she is usually instrumental in saving the day.

All these traits, be they good or bad are part and parcel of what makes Sam, Sam and the hens have finally come home to roost for her.

Cool!

[Watters87]

But, but, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to hone in on the idea that RC, a replicator was probably lying. Saying she had Sam's feelings and memories and that should make a difference? Well, don't you think that's exactly what she would say? Shouldn't they have thought that this was another trick? I mean, really. RC isn't George Washington at the cherry tree. The idea that she could tell a lie should have been first and foremost in their mind. There's having an open mind about people and there's having a mind so open, it's empty.

If you look at Fifth the first time we saw him. Was he evil? Just because your a Replicator doesn't mean that immediately your evil.

[shelsfc]

If you look at Fifth the first time we saw him. Was he evil? Just because your a Replicator doesn't mean that immediately your evil.

They still left him behind though.... they were very cautious about him when they thought he was good. They didn't show the same caution when it came to RC...that doesn't make sense to me.

[Dani347]

I just don't see why it matters what Sam did before or what Daniel did. How did he get in it? I mean, there's a thread for Pretense if people want to criticize his actions. There are threads for all the other episodes. I mean, I can't stop anyone from bringing past actions up here, but I don't see how that has any bearing on what happened in this episode. And, since for some reason Daniel (who was what? In this episode for a few minutes, once in a dream sequence where he got killed) keeps coming up, like I said, some of the issue is with tptb, through Jack, telling Sam she didn't do anything wrong. IIRC, Jack did question Daniel's judgement in Pretense. He didn't say, "Well, bucko, you're finally free to have feelings for another woman, so your judgement is perfectly fine."

The thing is people are talking about this episode, so of course they're going to criticize Sam's actions for this episode. The fact that Sam did some things before, or that Daniel maybe didn't get enough criticism for another episode doesn't change what Sam did in this episode. Or change that Jack allowed it.

[Dani347]

If you look at Fifth the first time we saw him. Was he evil? Just because your a Replicator doesn't mean that immediately your evil.

It means you're the enemy. And, even if you aren't the enemy, if you have a weapon that can destroy someone (which basically kind of means that someone is the enemy -unless they have a really twisted idea of friendship) you don't give access to it to the person it can destroy. You know, just in case the person might be lying about wanting to die. She might have been lying about every single thing that came out of her mouth, and that should have occured to them.

[Watters87]

They still left him behind though.... they were very cautious about him when they thought he was good. They didn't show the same caution when it came to RC...that doesn't make sense to me.

It really wasn't they but Jack that left Fifth behind. Jack really doesn't like Aliens unless your Thor or Teal'c. You really need to do something big to become a friend in Jack's eyes.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

I can't stop anyone from bringing past actions up here, but I don't see how that has any bearing on what happened in this episode.

Many are saying that what Sam did in the ep was, 1) out of character, which was why I brought up past eps - to show that she was, in fact, quite in character in Gemini, and, 2) that an action is judged idiotic only when it leads to failure.

I mentioned Daniel once, as an example. I include Jack in Prisoners, and Daniel in P&P, why? Because they were they other characters who got emotionally involved in these sample eps where Sam trusting her instincts bore different results.

Please don't turn this into what it is not. "/

[Dani347]

I think Daniel was mentioned before by someone else as well. And, I still don't see how what happened in another episode to another character has any bearing whatsoever even if it was mentioned only once. If someone whispered really fast under their breath that Daniel did something wrong in this episode, or Teal'c or Jack in that episode, and it was never brought up again, I'd still object. If they wrote it in quck vanishing invisible ink, I'd object. Especially if any of these characters was hardly in this episode.

And, as far as just Sam is concerned, I still think this trumps what she did before. Take Pretense. Sam and Janet used Kira's expertise, which was a risk and which could have ended badly, but they didn't use her to make the antidote and then hand her a vial and say, "drink up!" Sam's actions in Singularity wasn't stupid. It was self sacrificing. Yes, they were dumb for trusting Linnea in Prisoners, but wouldn't you think Sam would have learned something from that?

It just seems that there's some issue with Sam's actions being criticized because either someone else didn't get criticized for questionable things they did, or Sam did some questionable things before. Like until every action that ever was made by all of them gets brought out and brought into the spotlight, we should give her a pass on this one.

[Teal'c]

People keeps saying that Sam should have seen it coming but... did you? I didn't. I even knew Replicarter survived and it still didn't occur to me!

[Dani347]

Well, I haven't seen it, so I guess I can't say if I saw it coming. But, Sam's had a lot of experience with enemies, with peoole who may seem like friends, but turn out to be enemies, with the replicators in general. And, this is someone who was made and trained by Fifth. To twist an old saying, The protegee of my enemy is not my friend.

[Albion]

From the converstation, I took it that Prometheus Unbound was happening in the same time frame as Gemini, hence no Daniel.

I didn't hear anything in the conversation between Daniel and Carter to indicate that Daniel had gone into the elevator and was headed for the Prometheus. Quite the opposite in fact. The conversation that I heard clearly indicated that they were at the stage of picking the crew for the mission and that Daniel was hoping to convince Jack that he should be one of them. That indicates the mission was at a very early planning stage, not ready to launch.

So I'd be very surprised if Daniel was already picked for the crew, on the Prometheus and being kidnapped/shangheid at the same time as everyone else was dealing with the RepliCarter. It's just too short a time compression for me, given the dialogue of the teaser.


Albion