Gemini (811)

[ApophisOfTheStargateRealm]

you definatly cannot say that they did not leave a thread open for new episodes with rep sam. i like that disrupter

[Stricken]

I liked this episode the whole "help me to die" "no now im going to kill you all"

Great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Two Carters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sha're]

I liked this episode. I can understand the criticism of Carter, but I can also understand her reaction towards replicator Carter. What happened to her in New Order was traumatic, and was obviously going to affect her judgement. But it is a good episode, well acted by AT and had some good action sequences.

[SilverRider]

It was a OK ep, didn't really enjoy it.

[Katerine]

Review:

I thought this was a good, interesting episode, that was almost completely destroyed by the ending.

The RepliCarter storyline was interesting. I liked her characterization. I also liked the plot - I had suspicions about RepliCarter's loyalties, but I didn't know until it was revealed that she was planning to betray Fifth as well. Nicely written.

The only real problem (discounting minor problems, like the use of a monitor as an input device) was with Sam's characterization and everybody else's response to it.

Sam made mistakes. Big mistakes. HUGE mistakes. Mistakes that she should not have made, had she been thinking straight, following procedure, following orders. I'm primarily referring, of course, to the fact that she handed a Replicator the key to neutralizing the only effective weapon the Asgaard had against the Replicators. Hello... that has to be a violation of one of the biggest laws of basic security. I'm also referring to the fact that she circumvented direct orders and tried to bring a Replicator to Earth.

From a dramatic standpoint, this is forgivable. In fact, it's almost a good thing. Like Teal'c said, it's understandable that she would make mistakes in judgement because she'd developed sympathies. To err is human, and all that.

What's not forgivable is the fact that nobody called her on it! At the end, she was beating herself up for RepliCarter's actions, but not for her own actions. And Jack and Teal'c basically just patted her on the head and told her it wasn't her fault, when it most certainly was!

As a female viewer, I find this insulting, because you can bet the writers wouldn't have treated anybody else besides Sam like this. I'm not referring to Sam making mistakes - that's actually kind of nice - I'm referring to the fact that the writers implied, with their actions, that she needed to be coddled. She's an LTC in the US Air Force. She can take criticism. Especially when it's needed. At the very least, she should have gotten a reprimand for disobeying a direct order. You don't get much more civilian than I am, and even I know that you don't make Captain without learning to take criticism, and that reprimands are due when disobeying a direct order.

Criticism is how we learn. And since Sam wasn't applying it to herself (at least, not for the right things), then somebody else should have applied it for her.

Rating: 5 out of 10. Nice plot and set up for Reckoning, but I lost a lot of respect for the writers, and for Jack, because they didn't reprimand Sam at the end.

[Uber]

I'm going to post a really great perspective of the whole Gemini debate...written originally by golfbooy and posted on another thread here at GW. Definitely some food for thought for those who want to rip Carter apart for what happened...

Ok, recent events on a few threads have bamboozled me into posting my own diatribe about Gemini. Pathetic, I know. I am such a sucker.

To begin, here's one case where I wish I were totally ignorant of online fandom. My compulsion for news about Stargate is what drove me here in the first place, but had it not been for GateWorld and other such lovely websites, I would have sat forever in ignorant bliss as to the raging hellstorm this episode elicited from both Sam lovers and Sam haters. Anyway, I watched Gemini. And I loved it. I thought it was a great episode, full of tension, and maintaining a rather portentious tone the whole way through. I thought Amanda Tapping did a bang-up job as Replicarter, whose creation by the writers hadn't sat right with me since New Order. Boy, was I wrong on that one.

So, you can imagine my surprise at discovering just how many people absolutely despised Gemini. I mean, some people feel that it ruined Sam's character forever, that it ruined SG-1 forever, that the writers were no longer worthy of any respect at all. And, after having read what others feel, I understand where they're coming from. But I can say that I never saw the episode in the same way as they did, and if I may be so bold, think that many are simply seeing what they want, not what's there. Perhaps TPTB didn't do a good enough job framing each choice made in the episode, of anouncing aloud what the consequences each action or nonaction would bring. Anyway, here's the way I see it. Proceed at your own risk.

A lot has been made of how easily Sam allowed herself to be duped, of how Teal'c didn't follow his orders, of how Jack should have known better. But by my reckoning, there was only one instance in Gemini where a different choice could have been made regarding the whole situation. Everything that proceeded after that point was, in my view, unavoidable, particularly when looking at things from the character's (not a fan's) point of view. The SG-1 team did everything I'd expect them to do in dealing with Replicarter. They only could have avoided the situation by not meeting her at all. Period.

Hence, the point in the episode I'm referring to above. That would be when Sam, Teal'c, and Jack are sitting in the briefing room deciding whether or not to meet Replicarter. If you're inclined to think that SG-1 should never have met with Replicarter at all, that they should have simply moved on without meeting her and gaining whatever intel on the whereabouts, intentions, and strength of the replicators available, then that's a perfectly valid viewpoint. If you think the most logical course of action would have been to instantly shoot Replicarter, as she asked, because replicators are evil and that the whole thing is that simple, fine. If you think that Sam's curiosity about Replicarter was a red flag for trouble to come, that Jack should have kiboshed the whole thing right then, well that's fine too. But once the decision to go ahead and meet Replicarter at the Alpha Site was made, a series of circumstances and information comprised of truths, half-truths, and outright lies, forced SG-1 and Sam into every decision she made hence.

So moving on, both with my rant and in the episode, we come to Replicarter's arrival at the Alpha Site. Once there, she immediately pronounces that Fifth is coming, and that he has made himself and all replicators immune to the Ancient disruptor built by Jack. STOP. What to do? This is one of those places where people say that Sam screwed up--that she trusted Replicarter. Sorry, but that's just not the case. The two choices at this point are to either not believe Replicarter and hope that this information isn't true or to assume that at least some part of what Replicarter says is actually happening and to prepare. I ask you, given what you know of SG-1 in the past, what decision do you think they'd make? Potentially doom the entire galaxy with inaction or try to find a means of stopping the replicators (who will arrive shortly) with action? If you can honestly say that the SG-1 you know would not pursue a solution in this situation, then we're watching two different shows. As Aris Boch loved to remind SG-1, they were choiceless.

Anyway, we all know that Sam and SG-1 did assume that there was a threat from Fifth. Which was absolutely true, he was on his way. And like it or not, one puny Ancient gun and a few untested Asgard satellites probably weren't going to stop his replicator army. Anyone saying that things only made it past here because Sam allowed Replicarter to enter her mind and show her how she had been tortured by Fifth is ignoring the facts of the situation. Whether or not Sam did the "hand in the head" thing, the potential dangers behind Replicarter's warnings still remained, as did the only options. So, do nothing and hope, or amend the disruptor and be proactive?

Well, Sam, Jack, and Teal'c, like SG-1 always has been, were proactive. They were going to try and find a solution to stop Fifth, regardless of the dicey circumstances. Remember that to them, even if Replicarter had been lying about Fifth's immunity, they still had the original design to the disruptor. From their point of view, allowing Replicarter to help them discover a means of modifying the weapon would only lead to better odds of survival--a weapon against both modified and unmodified replicators.

Wait a minute, some will say, SG-1 should still have assumed that Replicarter was working with Fifth and not allowed her access to the device! Again I ask, what would that have changed? The choices for our team remain the same--do nothing and hope Replicarter is lying, or try to increase the options and possiblity for a successful defense against whatever kind of replicators might be coming. If only the characters could have seen those handy asides that took place between Replicarter and Fifth, then they might have forseen things as we the audience did. But they weren't privy to that luxury, and maybe we shouldn't have been either.

After all of this, things were pretty much settled. Replicarter developed immunity to the weapon, betrayed and murdered Fifth, and fled the Alpha Site. Without the Ancient disruptor the possibility of anyone stopping Replicarter on the rampage was extremely remote. The episode ends with Replicarter and her brethren now immune to the disruptor, and with SG-1 feeling kicked in the teeth (Sam in particular). Wow, how much does that suck? Still, these types of things have always happened in the Stargate universe. Some of the absolute best episodes of SG-1, for me, are the ones where our guys screw up big time, where they totally blow it, where stuff happens and at the end of the episode things are way, way worse than when they started. Things can't be all happy gateroom celebrations and long, slow pull-aways from the team hanging out at Jack's cabin. Good and bad things happen to these four characters; it's why we know them so well, and it's why the show has stayed on the air for nine years.

So, that's my brief (the sad part is that that is brief for me) take on Gemini. But to close, it's worth pointing out that if Sam had done the exact opposite of what she did, had she told everyone in that first briefing room scene to find her replicator double and whack her without hesitation, then she no doubt would be lambasted as a cold-heated *****, someone incapable of feeling compassion, even for "herself".

I'm also frustrated with fandom's comfort level with the replicators. That is, everyone online seems to think that dealing with the replicators is easy. They talk about the events of Gemini as though SG-1 should have been able to defeat Fifth and Replicarter without breaking a sweat. It's as though since the replicators have been around since season three, then they shouldn't be a threat at all. So, for the record, I feel the need to tell everyone: Nobody defeats the replicators with aplomb. Not even the redoubtable SG-1. In fact, up until Jack was able to create the Ancient weapon in New Order, only the freakiest and most fictional of circumstances have allowed SG-1 to keep the replicators at bay. In Nemesis they had to crash Thor's ship to stop them. And one still survived. So in Small Victories we nuked that one, solo replicator. Overkill? No, because they're unstoppable killing machines. In Enemies the replicators are stopped only after once again hurtling the ship they're aboard into a planet at breakneck speed. But, just to add to their total evilness, before they are stopped the replicators are essentially able to kill Apophis, something SG-1 hadn't been able to do in five years. In Menace, the only reason Teal'c, O'neill and the entire SGC weren't overrun by the replicators was because Jack was able to kill Reese. Let's face it, they would never have stopped the replicators if not for those unduplicable circumstances. Then there's Unnatural Selection. Here, SG-1 had to literally stop time in order to halt the replicator advance. And that was only possible through the betrayal of someone who has to be considered a child. At the very least he's childlike. After that, the Asgard tried to chuck them into a black hole for crying out loud. They're unstoppable.

So, while, yes, SG-1 has fought the replicators a number of times, they'd never really been able to "defeat" them. At best they had been able to fend them off, keep them out of our galaxy. But, what we'd been told right from the beginning was that if the replicators actually made it to our galaxy, then we would be toast. In that light, the events of Gemini do seem rather portentious, don't they? Fifth was coming to our galaxy, wasn't he? Meh, Carter and SG-1 still should have done nothing. At least then nobody would look like a fool, right?

I for one completely agree with this analysis...very thoughtful and well thought out.

Thank you golfbooy.

[The Signal]

Really never saw the problem, yes Carter was gullable, yes Teal'c didnt execute his orders, but this was all character driven, for instance, Sam did feel guilty after betraying Fifth and possibly causing the new Replecator attacks and would do anything to correct the problem. This reason also explains letting her onto the Alpha site. Teal'c did not carry out his orders, and yes this was dumn but would you shoot teamate and friend? No, would you shoot someone who looked exactly like them, maybe, but you would still have to think. I really dont see why people have such a massive problem with the episode, though it is far from a favourite of mine, it is certainly not the worst (I mean "Out of Mind" what was that?)

[cafine_us]

This episode is definitely given an undeserved bad rap. Even if Sam did make a mistake, at least we can remember she's human. It seems like SG-1 never makes a mistake, certainly not one that isn't resolved by the end of the episode. Putting Sam through the physical and emotional consequences of her actions definitely added to the battles with the replicators.

[jckfan55]

Watched this episode again. Great job by AT, it really felt like 2 characters. Sam seemed a bit too gullible, but Rep. Carter was a master manipulator. As with other episodes though, in order to get the result or next step in the plot, the character has to be misled--as with Teal'c in The Warrior. Perhaps the hazard of only having 40 odd minutes to tell the story.

[Dani347]

but would you shoot teamate and friend?

Depends on the situation.

No, would you shoot someone who looked exactly like them, maybe, but you would still have to think.

Um, lets see. If I knew it wasn't them, if I knew it was an enemy, whoo-boy, yes, yes, oh, and yes. Definitely.



I'm reading all the arguments, and I still say they wrote Sam horribly in this episode. Jack and Teal'c too, but Sam to a greater extent. Later on, I might have the energy to say why I still feel this way despite the arguments.

[AGateFan]

Sam, Jack, Teal'c, heck even Thor was a moron in this ep.
Yeah, lets let the replicator study the one piece of technology we have ever found that can kill them on a wide basis. Freaking brilliant. Anyone that signed off on that is a fool. They should have elimitated the replicator as soon as it came through the gate. Jack was right about Reese, he was right about fifth, why make him so moronic in regards to this thing.

Of course I may not have an objective opinion as I absolutly despise this episode.

[Dani347]

I probably shouldn't post, since I don't have my thoughts clearly sorted. On the other hand, it may make the post shorter, which some people might see as a blessing.

I ask you, given what you know of SG-1 in the past, what decision do you think they'd make? Potentially doom the entire galaxy with inaction or try to find a means of stopping the replicators (who will arrive shortly) with action? If you can honestly say that the SG-1 you know would not pursue a solution in this situation

And, right there is where we see this completely different. It seems that in your opinion, action is always better than inaction. That it's better to pursue a solution than twiddle your thumbs. Which is true, but for me, it doesn't stop there. To me, it's not enough that they did something. Doing something isn't better than doing nothing just because it's doing something. They can't just decide to try a solution. If you're going to do something, try to do something that makes sense. Yes, try to find a means of stopping the replicators. But, that means should never have included trusting one of them. Action is no better than inaction if the action is stupid. We of course don't agree that the action was stupid, but in my opinion it was. So, to me, what they did was no better than if they had just sat there and done nothing.

Can I think of something else they should have done instead? No. But, I don't think that means there wasn't another option. I just can't agree that this was a better choice than doing nothing. Doing something else would have been.

[Mattathias2.0]

I probably shouldn't post, since I don't have my thoughts clearly sorted. On the other hand, it may make the post shorter, which some people might see as a blessing.



And, right there is where we see this completely different. It seems that in your opinion, action is always better than inaction. That it's better to pursue a solution than twiddle your thumbs. Which is true, but for me, it doesn't stop there. To me, it's not enough that they did something. Doing something isn't better than doing nothing just because it's doing something. They can't just decide to try a solution. If you're going to do something, try to do something that makes sense. Yes, try to find a means of stopping the replicators. But, that means should never have included trusting one of them. Action is no better than inaction if the action is stupid. We of course don't agree that the action was stupid, but in my opinion it was. So, to me, what they did was no better than if they had just sat there and done nothing.

Can I think of something else they should have done instead? No. But, I don't think that means there wasn't another option. I just can't agree that this was a better choice than doing nothing. Doing something else would have been.

This is also true for this season's Prototype.

It wasn't smart for the SGC to allow Khalek, the Son of Anubis, to stay on Earth and do something really bad, like trying to ascend.

It wasn't smart for O'Neill to allow Carter to work with RepliCarter and gain access to their knowledge of the Ancient Device O'Neill made with his mind.

I understand, but I am neutral in this.

Mattathias

[Agent_Dark]

Can I think of something else they should have done instead? No. But, I don't think that means there wasn't another option. I just can't agree that this was a better choice than doing nothing. Doing something else would have been.

Well look at it this way - they allowed RepliCarter to gain power, who then kills Daniel which allows him to ascend again where he then convinces Oma to stop Anubis from destroying all life in the galaxy. If they had of done nothing, Daniel wouldn't have been put in the position to prevent Anubis from carrying out his plan and the galaxy would have been doomed

[Mattathias2.0]

Well look at it this way - they allowed RepliCarter to gain power, who then kills Daniel which allows him to ascend again where he then convinces Oma to stop Anubis from destroying all life in the galaxy. If they had of done nothing, Daniel wouldn't have been put in the position to prevent Anubis from carrying out his plan and the galaxy would have been doomed

So by O'Neill killing Reece, he saved the galaxy?

Mattathias