Originally posted by Dave2
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Because Fifth did nothing wrong. We basically doomed him because he was a Replicator. We doomed him because of his ancestor's actions. On the other hand they other Replicators were all for destroying others so its a little ambigousOriginally posted by aretood2 -
I agree completely. After all, they saw what happened with the Asgard and the replicators in "Nemesis" and "Small Victories", and then with Reese in "Menace". There was no doubt in my mind that there was no way she could be controlled and "handled" with her powers, regardless of how much Daniel wanted it to work out that way. She was too unpredictable and childlike and it wouldn't have taken hardly anything to set her off on a destructive spree. Jack was right in that episode, as well, and had no need to apologize to Daniel for what he did. Then, of course, there was the replicator experience in "Exodus"/"Enemies".Originally posted by Dave2 View Post
Jonas wasn't around for those experiences, but Sam certainly was, and as much as she's my favorite character, she should have known better than to think Fifth would be any different. Had they taken him back with them, there's no way it would not have devolved into a disaster. Obviously, he was just as unpredictable as Reese was. He was fine when he was in a good mood and decided he liked people. There's no way he could have been stopped once he decided otherwise and went on a rampage.
Yes, Fifth felt betrayed. But even if he hadn't felt that way, once he decided that he wanted something different, who would have been able to stop him?
Jack did the right thing as far as I'm concerned.Comment
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i think jack did the right thing too. just look at how he reacted when he went for revenge on sam.Originally posted by hedwig View Post
he might have done the same darkness if they'd brought him back with them. no matter how 'nice' fifth appeared, he still was made from the same bad ingredients. you'd never know if he'd turn on you.
well, they could have tried to reprogram him, but our ppl would never be sure if that programming would stick.
i don't know... i feel this kind of compassion for fifth, but he'd have to literally be taken apart, re-programmed, and then you'd have to hope the other human replicators wouldn't mess with him and create the prob all over again.
sally
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I agree with you, but I also think that while Sam should have known better with all her experience this particular situation and her reaction to it shows that she still has a bit of naivety, innocence or hope. That despite everything she's gone through since joining the SGC there is still a bit of that innocent bright-eyed bushy-tailed captain in her, unlike Jack who's seen and done a lot more in his years in the military and is far more realistic and cynical in that aspect.Originally posted by hedwig View Post
Plus I think the fact that Jack basically ordered her to lie and betray Fifth also played a big part in it; that's just not who she is and it seems she still struggles with the darker side of their careers, where she has to make decisions and do things she's not comfortable with at all.Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
On FFnet or AO3
My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories.Comment
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All true. However, Sam is in the military (for approx. 8 years by this time, counting the year before CotG and the two years prior to that at the Pentagon that she mentions) and whether she likes it or not she knows there are orders she's going to have to follow that she doesn't like. There have been several instances of that in the prior episodes. A couple examples being following General Bauer's order to get that bomb ready to experiment with in "Chain Reaction". Another being turning the naquada generator into a bomb in "Scorched Earth". She doesn't seem to have any trouble expressing her disapproval in these orders though, since she was clearly unhappy with Bauer and Jack in those episodes.Originally posted by fems View Post
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True, but in this case she probably realized (in the back of her mind) that Jack was right and thus didn't voice her disapproval as strongly as she did back then. And the two years prior to the SGC don't really count seeing as how it was spent at the Pentagon... it's not really being out in the field and dealing with such situations.Originally posted by hedwig View PostAll true. However, Sam is in the military (for approx. 8 years by this time, counting the year before CotG and the two years prior to that at the Pentagon that she mentions) and whether she likes it or not she knows there are orders she's going to have to follow that she doesn't like. There have been several instances of that in the prior episodes. A couple examples being following General Bauer's order to get that bomb ready to experiment with in "Chain Reaction". Another being turning the naquada generator into a bomb in "Scorched Earth". She doesn't seem to have any trouble expressing her disapproval in these orders though, since she was clearly unhappy with Bauer and Jack in those episodes.Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
On FFnet or AO3
My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories.Comment
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I hate the human-form replicator plot line (it turns an already dull enemy into an enemy with even less personality), but got wrapped up in this episode a little more than I expected to. And that's because of Fifth, SG-1 betrayal of him struck an emotional chord within me. They probably did do the right thing, but Patrick Currie's performance and innocence really makes you feel sorry for him.
Otherwise, an utterly uninteresting episode easily forgotten (the ice cream scene being an exception). I didn't expect to see Helo from Battlestar, though!
RATING: 6.5 out of 10Comment
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I stick a VHS in my Halls of Res machine...
1. Rewatching it you sort of forget how long it takes for this ep to seriously get going.
2. It's also wierd how it has hardly 'any' connection to "Prometheus" yet it's meant to be a two parter.
3. Once it gets going though..."we are Replicators..." I remember hearing about these guys but that ice-cool voice and the "projectile weapons" being no use whatsoever.
4. And then we've got the whole thing with Fifth...an interesting mess, in the short term it was the right thing to do but you just knew that if they were going to bring the human Reps back it would bite them in the butt...
Spoiler:
In short...this ep rocks!
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A great episode, with a downer ending.
Our replicator friends are now human-like.
So we screwed them in the end, saying we'd save Fifth, but lying.
Tomorrow, an alternate reality. Oh joy.sigpicComment
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My LiveJournal post
Such a shame Fifth has to be trapped there for ages, but First was there anyway after three minutes. He wouldn't have let Fifth escape. Or SG-1 for that matter..."Thanks to denial, I'm immortal."
"A big 'Hello' to all intelligent life out there, and for everyone else, the secret is to bang the rocks together, guys!"
"Excuse me, barmaid? You seem to have brought me the wrong offspring. I ordered an extra large boy with beefy arms, extra guts and glory on the side. This here, this is a talking fishbone!"
"I'm Jack. It means... what's in the box?"
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>-- Czechs Rock! >--Comment
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Even if the others wouldn't know about it they could never take Fifth with him. Do you remember what happened with Reese?!Originally posted by Jae'a View PostUnmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
On FFnet or AO3
My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories.Comment
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I've always wished they'd taken Fifth with them. Always wondered how he would have turned out living amongst humans. Would his 'flaw' be made worse by being with humans for that very reason? He was the closest an artificial lifeform came to being human, especially being thought of as the "mistake" by the other Replicators. Felt sorry for him in that he was left in the 'middle', not thought of as a perfect Replicator or as a human.
They paid a high price for the betrayal of Fifth. Patrick Currie really brought this character to life, giving Fifth a wonderful air of menacing innocence. Reese destroyed an advanced civilisation in innocence and Jack took note. Interesting how Sam and Jonas worked on an emotional level in response to leaving Fifth behind, Jack was totally practical and focused on the inherent dangers of taking Fifth.Comment
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That was my favorite scene from that episode. I was in stitches...Comment
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You can really tell the writers thought S6 was going to be their last with the way the writers are wrapping up stories. This episode isn't really about action or dealing with a powerful episode. Its about morality. This episode is a big set up to morality. We have the Promethus with the Asgard help going to a trap that shows the Replicators have evolved to a point they are worse then ever. An unstopable enemy that is ever more unstopable. All seems lost for SG1 except for Fifth who unlike the other ruthless Replicators has a conscience and doesn't agree with mass destruction at the cost of growing numbers. This episode all builds up to the moral question of is it wrong to betray the innocence of one person to save thousands if not millions? I can see Jack's POV of they couldn't let them escape and continue to plague the galaxy but at the same time it is wrong to backstab a person like that who did nothing wrong but exist. It doesn't seem right to do that to Fifth. He should not be responsible for the crimes of his own peopleOriginally posted by aretood2Comment
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I always felt Jack made the right decision, and never really questioned it, Fifth was a machine, who made himself look like a human - not a human, who was part of a group focused on destroying them all. He may have had a more moral side to him than the others, but he's still the enemy and he could turn any minute much like Reece did.
At this time, SG1 didn't know how the replicators worked or were "programmed" they couldn't risk compromising Earth. I'm surprised Sam allowed herself to be as emotionally involved as she did. It's who she is, and what makes her a good character on the show. For all we know Fifth could have been playing her, using her emotional side to get in. He and the the others did probe their brains, it could have been a tactical advantage. I'm also surprised, that by working for Jack as long as she has, she can still be shocked by his decisions he makes. In my opinion, leaving Fifth behind was a far better fate than what would have happened if they brought him back to earth.
All in all a good episode.Oh for a book and a shady nook ~ Jules' Book Reviews - my book review site.Comment
My Fics - the fluffy/silly variety
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