The Other Side (402)

[Starscape91]

I really liked this episode not just because it had Odo from DS9, but also the fact it delt with real moral issues and how far the SGC is willing to go to get advanced technology.

[shipper hannah]

Plus he basically ensured another Hitler wouldn't get through the gate and make them all look stupid when the public would find out the truth about the man (had he come through and been received as an ally). If there were any consequences they were probably commendations.

Commendations? Seriously? Killing an unarmed man that is pleading for his life?

Imagine all the benefits that he would have brought with him - clean energy technology, neural interfaces, stasis technology.. they were decades ahead of us.

What Jack did was wrong, and that was made clear at the end of the episode imo.

[fems]

Commendations? Seriously? Killing an unarmed man that is pleading for his life?

Imagine all the benefits that he would have brought with him - clean energy technology, neural interfaces, stasis technology.. they were decades ahead of us.

What Jack did was wrong, and that was made clear at the end of the episode imo.

Jack didn't kill him; he told him not to follow. It's not his fault Alar didn't heed his warning. Alar chose to follow them despite knowing of the iris.

The Goa'uld were also decades ahead of us and look how well getting information from them went when they held (a possessed) Conrad.

Besides, I doubt Alar would share his technology even if he had been allowed asylum (given his background I doubt he'd have gotten asylum; think Hitler would have gotten it?) once he realized what kind of place Earth was and how all sorts of people were allowed to reproduce with no regard to genetic purity.

It was obviously a somewhat controversial ending with what we have to assume is Alar hitting the iris, but I think they purposely left it at that for viewers to form their own opinions (otherwise we would have heard/seen the consequences of Jack's actions).

I think Jack did what a lot of us would do when we found ourselves in that situation...

[jelgate]

I guess it would have to be genocidal racism to show something both Daniel and Jack would disgusted with as these two have different views when it comes to ethics. Even before we knew what the Eurondans were I still liked the moral question it was raised between Jack and Daniel as they argue over if its right to give them technology over when dealing when an unknown means. I can see both sides and while hindsight tells us Daniel was right given the Euroandans genocide nature it is still an interesting debate between the two as they look into this advanced species.

On the other hand I don't see what the controversial nature of Jack letting Alar slam on the iris. The guy is maniac who has shown violent tendencies and Jack warned him not follow. Why would we ever let such a dangerous person on Earth?

[bookwormjules]

Another great episode, I forgot how deep they explored the moral beliefs of the characters. Jack is a very layered character, who has a shady background as a special/black ops soldier. One who at times, has to set morals aside for the greater good, no matter the cost. He may not believe in it him self, we see him struggle, but he has a mission to do, in the end he did the right thing, almost to late, but he did do it.

On the other hand I don't see what the controversial nature of Jack letting Alar slam on the iris. The guy is maniac who has shown violent tendencies and Jack warned him not follow. Why would we ever let such a dangerous person on Earth?

I don't see how it's controversial either. Jack warned Alar not to follow. When Jack was at the SGC he did what he was suppose to do, if he thought he was being pursued by the enemy - to have the iris closed. It would be no different than him having the iris closed when a Gou'uld or Jaffa (or any other enemy for that matter) were coming after him. He gave a warning, Alar choose not to head it - again, Jack was following orders which are not to let anything from another world enter the base that could be a threat.

[Noxbait]

Another great episode, I forgot how deep they explored the moral beliefs of the characters. Jack is a very layered character, who has a shady background as a special/black ops soldier. One who at times, has to set morals aside for the greater good, no matter the cost. He may not believe in it him self, we see him struggle, but he has a mission to do, in the end he did the right thing, almost to late, but he did do it.

I don't see how it's controversial either. Jack warned Alar not to follow. When Jack was at the SGC he did what he was suppose to do, if he thought he was being pursued by the enemy - to have the iris closed. It would be no different than him having the iris closed when a Gou'uld or Jaffa (or any other enemy for that matter) were coming after him. He gave a warning, Alar choose not to head it - again, Jack was following orders which are not to let anything from another world enter the base that could be a threat.

Agreed on all counts. I think this was a very hard mission for one and all and I don't think Jack wanted it to end the way it did. And that includes Alar's death. Just a very unfortunate, sticky mess of a mission.

[shipper hannah]

Jack didn't kill him; he told him not to follow. It's not his fault Alar didn't heed his warning. Alar chose to follow them despite knowing of the iris.

Jack knew he was going to follow, because he was facing certain death, and closed the iris anyway.

The Goa'uld were also decades ahead of us and look how well getting information from them went when they held (a possessed) Conrad.

Besides, I doubt Alar would share his technology even if he had been allowed asylum (given his background I doubt he'd have gotten asylum; think Hitler would have gotten it?) once he realized what kind of place Earth was and how all sorts of people were allowed to reproduce with no regard to genetic purity.

He was offering to tell them everything he knows. But whether he was or not does not excuse Jack's actions.

Alar was obviously raised in a society that values 'genetic purity' - he did not exist in a vacuum, he was a product of his environment. You don't know that had he actually been exposed to a society that values diversity and equality that he would have seen the errors of those teachings.

It was obviously a somewhat controversial ending with what we have to assume is Alar hitting the iris, but I think they purposely left it at that for viewers to form their own opinions (otherwise we would have heard/seen the consequences of Jack's actions).

I think Jack did what a lot of us would do when we found ourselves in that situation...

It was pretty clear that the spike we saw on his screen was Alar hitting the iris.

Jack was not a bad man, but he did a bad thing.

[shipper hannah]

On the other hand I don't see what the controversial nature of Jack letting Alar slam on the iris. The guy is maniac who has shown violent tendencies and Jack warned him not follow. Why would we ever let such a dangerous person on Earth?

Hang on, what violent tendencies?

[hedwig]

Th
On first stepping through the 'gate, Jack is met by Alar and pronounced 'savior.' And while his face shows discomfort at the idea, it's apparent he's swept away by all the toys on display and the prospect of being Earth and Euronda's hero.

Jack wouldn't be "swept away" by the prospect of being anyone's hero; he's not that kind of person. He'd rather skip that sort of stuff completely. If he was "swept away" by anything, it might have been the toys and medicine. But he wouldn't be willing to sell out earth just to get those things.

[hlndncr]

What Jack did could be prosecuteable as murder or at the very least manslaughter under the UCMJ (assuming you could make the argument for jurisdiction). It was a very serious action to take and I think was rather glossed over.

Daniel shouldn't get a break here either. Civilian or not he was questioning his commander in the field quite vocally in front of outside/third-party forces. (Jack had done nothing illegal or untoward at this point.) That's a serious breach of protocol at the very least, and certainly undiplomatic. Then he continued to snark at Sam and General Hammond. Daniel's behavior was out of line. Jack was right to tell him to "Shut up." There were avenues for him to raise appropriate objections. He didn't take them.

[fems]

What Jack did could be prosecuteable as murder or at the very least manslaughter under the UCMJ (assuming you could make the argument for jurisdiction).

Yeah, jurisdiction would be pretty difficult considering the man wasn't even on Earth (iris doesn't allow matter to fully reintegrate after all)

But honestly, like others have pointed out this isn't the first time they close the iris on the enemy, be that when they're in pursuit or random attacks.

[hlndncr]

Yeah, jurisdiction would be pretty difficult considering the man wasn't even on Earth (iris doesn't allow matter to fully reintegrate after all)

But honestly, like others have pointed out this isn't the first time they close the iris on the enemy, be that when they're in pursuit or random attacks.

Heat of battle and rules of engagement make all the difference.

As for jurisdiction, location of the crime could be argued as earth because he hit the iris which is on our planet. Jack's position in the AF could also give you jurisdiction regardless of location (US soil is not necessary).

[fems]

But how to prove it was actually Alar that hit the iris? There's no telling who it was and there's no body. One could argue he committed suicide knowing the iris was there and that his worst enemy was winning the war, probably coming for him and he'd rather kill himself this way than let those awful, genetically impure Breeders get him...

[hlndncr]

But how to prove it was actually Alar that hit the iris? There's no telling who it was and there's no body. One could argue he committed suicide knowing the iris was there and that his worst enemy was winning the war, probably coming for him and he'd rather kill himself this way than let those awful, genetically impure Breeders get him...

I think you have enough evidence to draw a valid conclusion that it was Alar. Proving suicide would be difficult. Jack's statement to not follow is a very ambiguous warning. He could not have known his death was certain, and given his desperation to save himself just a few moments before it would be difficult to establish Alar has a suicidal state of mind.

There are all sorts of factors that would make it an extremely interesting case.

If I were still coaching a trial ad team I would be tempted to write it up for a mock trial.

[hedwig]

Daniel shouldn't get a break here either. Civilian or not he was questioning his commander in the field quite vocally in front of outside/third-party forces. (Jack had done nothing illegal or untoward at this point.) That's a serious breach of protocol at the very least, and certainly undiplomatic. Then he continued to snark at Sam and General Hammond. Daniel's behavior was out of line. Jack was right to tell him to "Shut up." There were avenues for him to raise appropriate objections. He didn't take them.

I'm not defending Daniel, because I think he was way out of line. But, ... this is who he is and how he acts pretty much all the time. He never stops to think about what's coming out of his mouth or what it's going to sound like to others in the general area. He pretty much thinks he has a right, at any time, to attack what he thinks is wrong, and he doesn't care who gets in his way. Which makes him a bit of an ass, as far as I'm concerned. The unfortunate thing many times is he's allowed to get away with it by everyone. He often doesn't make a very good case for his argument, and yet Hammond often gives him an okay.

Regardless of rules, regulations, and so forth, I think Jack would be exhonerated of any wrongdoing in this case, or maybe gotten a slap on the wrist and a notation put in his file about the incident.

As an afterthought, SG1 was running away from a battle. They were being shot at by Alar's people, who would have killed them if they'd been able to. Regardless of if it was just Alar left begging for them to take him along, there was always the possibility of some of Alar's people running down that corridor toward the gate, and by Jack ordering the iris closed, it stopped Alar and anyone else from coming through. That sort of thing was done when SG1 was being pursued by Jaffa on other planets, who wound up being smushed against the iris. I honestly don't see this as being that much different.