Pretense (315)

[Lunaeclipse]

The guy who played Zipacna was also Martin Keamy, one of the bad guy mercenaries Charles Widmore hired on Lost. Another creepy role.

I am rewatching SG1 now, and just saw this episode again. I know that Skaara idolizes O'Neill and has basically from the beginning....but he basically ignores his brother-in-law? Doesn't react to his sister's death? I know others have mentioned this, but am still wondering about that.

I liked that they brought back Schrodinger.... Wonder who the cat belongs to in RL? And arrogant allies, but I liked the relationship between the Triad overlord and "Zippy"....

One other thing--how did Skaara manage to withstand Korel for so long? Is it something in the Abydonian DNA, since Sha're also seemed to have the same ability in "Forever in a Day"? Thought that this was kind of weird.

I disagree with you. Skaara does idolize Jack, but if you look you will see that when both of them are around Skaara always acknowledges Daniel first. And as far as not reacting to bad news... I've always assumed that he learnt to keep his emotions and thoughts to himself so that Klorel couldn't use them...

... Skaara is strong and what exactly do you mean by 'withstand'? because there have others who have managed to come out of Goa'uld possesion...

[hedwig]

One other thing--how did Skaara manage to withstand Korel for so long? Is it something in the Abydonian DNA, since Sha're also seemed to have the same ability in "Forever in a Day"? Thought that this was kind of weird.

I don't think DNA has anything to do with how long a person can withstand a Goa'uld. The Goa'uld appears to control that, not the human. Look at Apophis. He was "blended" with his host for nearly 2,000 years, according to the episode where Apophis was being chased by another system lord, was injured, crashed his glider, and was taken back to the SGC by SG1. During his stay there, it became evident that his host was someone who had lived nearly 2,000 years prior and was extremely confused when he was briefly allowed to come forth. The Goa'uld can keep healing it's host for as long as it wants to before discarding it for another host, unless it is itself injured or the injuries are beyond it's capability of healing.

[Lunaeclipse]

One other thing--how did Skaara manage to withstand Korel for so long? Is it something in the Abydonian DNA, since Sha're also seemed to have the same ability in "Forever in a Day"? Thought that this was kind of weird.

Scene from 'Thor's Hammer"

Kendra: "Because of my training in the temple, the Goa'uld who took possession of my body could not take complete control over my mind. A part of me—myself—remained."

Daniel: "Something of the host survives."

Sam: "How did you end up here? Teal'c said the Goa'uld made this a forbidden planet ages ago."

Kendra:"And so it is. But I knew my beast. She hungered for conquest. So I became the voice within. I taunted her and whispered of rumors that Cimmeria must hold a wealth of riches for one bold enough to take it."

Daniel:"You actually influenced the Goa'uld that had taken you over?"

Kendra: "Yes. She came to Cimmeria. And I hoped only for a quick death…escape. But we were taken into the Labyrinth, a dark and terrifying place. Until Thor's Hammer set me free. And I have honored his ways and his people ever since."

-----------------------

What Kendra did is what I imagine Skaara did as well.

[Meaghan]

Thanks for the clarifications y'all!

I was all wrapped up in the "Nothing of the host survives", especially while watching this episode. Totally forgot about Kendra! It still seems pretty rare that the host can influence the symbiote, especially to the extent of Kendra and Skaara. I guess I wasn't good enough at explaining that!

Just trying to get at the fact that out of the small amount of non-Tokra people who actually have the host break through, it seems like an larger proportion tends to be Abydonian. At least from what I remember.

[garhkal]

Was Kendra Abydonian though?

[Lunaeclipse]

Was Kendra Abydonian though?

http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Kendra

[Meaghan]

I know she's not....but the other 2 are....which is why I said "a larger proportion" and not "all"!

I can't think of many more who were able to resist/assert themselves/whatever you want to call it. So the question remains--what was it about those 2 or Abydos that made it possible?

[jelgate]

I always thought it was because they were new hosts. It makes sense they would have more fight when a host implanted. The majority of Goa'uld we met had a host for hundreds of Years.
Their host had given up.

[Lunaeclipse]

I always thought it was because they were new hosts. It makes sense they would have more fight when a host implanted. The majority of Goa'uld we met had a host for hundreds of Years.
Their host had given up.

...and Klorel stated that Skaara was strong after he had been shot and then came out of the sarc, and when Apophis was hurt the host could come through, so injury seems to make the goa'ould weaker.

Inside Apophis' ship. Klorel come down in the transport rings.
Apophis: "Klorel, it is time. You will burn their first city to the ground."
Klorel: "Father, the host you chose for me is strong. I fear I may need more time in the Sarcophagus to gain strength."
Apophis: "You are strong enough! You are my son!"
Klorel: "Yes, Father."
Apophis: "Do not disappoint me."

[Meaghan]

Thanks y'all! I get it now. *g*

[Lunaeclipse]

I always thought it was because they were new hosts. It makes sense they would have more fight when a host implanted. The majority of Goa'uld we met had a host for hundreds of Years.
Their host had given up.

I think that's an excellent point.

Do you think that maybe it's also what they believe?... Skaara and Sha're were taught that the Goa'uld were not gods, so do you think that might have made them fight harder... I think they were strong people to begin with... but the older hosts might believe that they are gods.. do you think they would've learnt by being a host that the Goa'uld weren't?

[Meaghan]

That's a good point too Luna! Perhaps a combination of new blending and knowing the truth about the Goa'uld plus innate strength.

I think that some hosts would have learned that, some wouldn't. There are always people who believe in a faith system so strongly that NOTHING will sway them from it. Those people will probably always believe the Goa'uld are gods no matter what. Others will have difficulty accepting it but will eventually. Others will have no problems at all, at least IMHO.

[Lunaeclipse]

That's a good point too Luna! Perhaps a combination of new blending and knowing the truth about the Goa'uld plus innate strength.

I think that some hosts would have learned that, some wouldn't. There are always people who believe in a faith system so strongly that NOTHING will sway them from it. Those people will probably always believe the Goa'uld are gods no matter what. Others will have difficulty accepting it but will eventually. Others will have no problems at all, at least IMHO.

Skaara has epic inner strength and will and he's also intelligent, so he would find a way to do what Kendra did... and, I think, he would have learnt to hide his thoughts and feelings from Klorel so in Pretense he would've still have been holding back and measuring what he let out until he was free from the symbiote and he let them out a little again. All my observations I take from watching what he does as well as what he says... his actions say a lot in this episode. He is still the Skaara that we know and love, but he also has been through a lot (as he testified) so I was glad to see that he was still who he is/was and still had the stuff that made him a beautiful character.

[garhkal]

And it was nice to see him once again later in the last ep of season 6...

Spoiler:

Pity it had to be just before he and the rest died off.

[Anja]

Maybe also the Goa'ulds differ in personality so the amount of control depends on the symbiont, the host and the duration of the blending. Liked the combination of the different races here - the nice Nox woman being the representative of the most powerful and cleverest one.