Flesh And Blood (1001)

[Lord Shiva]

That was actually very entertaining if you overlook the implausibility of all that convenience beaming, particularly that last one with Daniel and Vala. Why would they drop their shields unless they intended to let them go.

They were sending out Crusaders into the cities to slaughter the Jaffa, you can't really send out ground troops with your shields up.

[Lord Shiva]

I absolutely loved this episode - and it continues the fantastic storytelling that has given us the Ori arc which started with season 9 (yes, big fan of season 9 and I can tell I will dig 10 as well!). For those who debate if this is the Daniel we know and love because he would consider killing a child - please remember what he's gone through! The 8 years at the SGC, his Ascention, Desecention, near Ascention again all led him to become a little darker, more sarcastic person in season 9. This sarcasm and darkness continues into season 10 - its an evolution of the character, whether you like it or not. Heck, if I had lost my chance for Ascention not once, but twice, I'd be slightly bitter too!

[nyxlily]

And, is it because she's a child? If she were a full grown woman, would that be different? Was it shocking when Daniel said Khalek should be killed?

Probably totally bogus argument, but lets say the enemy was a shape shifter. Its still evil, but if it takes the body of a grown up, it's okay to kill, but if it takes the body of a child, the killing is called in question?

Not bogus at all! That reminded me of Reese. She was an adult with the emotions of a child.. and she controlled the replicators. While she herself was not evil, she was emotionally unstable and on the verge of loosing control of the replicators. Daniel was -convinced- he could save her despite being overrun by those bugs. Was Jack justified in killing her? Would Daniel really have tried to continue to reason with her at the risk of endangering Earth? Could he have pulled the trigger if it was up to him? I think I would question any death involving a child, even in that of an adult body.

It very well could be my sympathies in Adria being a child, because I thought killing Khalek WAS acceptable. Would I have felt the same way if he said that of an adult Adria? Even I'm questioning myself

That could be why the Ori decided to manufacture a human in child form. People have different feelings in someone who looks and acts like a child. They seem innocent. Vala would feel some kind of attachment and might try to persuade others that Adria is her child and all that motherly stuff. Even with the rapid growth, there was enough time to bond. And, the Ori know that Vala knows Daniel, so she could tell him that Adria started out as a child, and that would get the rest of SG1 knowing, which would possibly let their guards down, even when she grows up, because you might imagine a fully formed adult being evil, but if you have the memory of someone being a child, it brings up ideas of innocence.

I think that's the bottom line. People react to the death of a child radically different to that of an adult. If I know for sure Adria does not contain one shred of humanity, I think Daniel is right in wanting to shoot her. But, I just don't know.

[nyxlily]

The 8 years at the SGC, his Ascention, Desecention, near Ascention again all led him to become a little darker, more sarcastic person in season 9. This sarcasm and darkness continues into season 10 - its an evolution of the character, whether you like it or not. Heck, if I had lost my chance for Ascention not once, but twice, I'd be slightly bitter too!

I loved how they develope Daniel throughout the years. I liked the changes in him and the fact he can't stay naive forever.. but the -essential- Daniel has not changed. He was the moral compass and conscience of the team and I don't think he's changed in that respect. However, the thought of him killing a child crosses many a boundary. That's the debate anyway, whether Adria really is a human child (came standard with Ori knowledge)or a true Ori in human form, in which case yes, Daniel should have killed her.. despite my misgiving that she was in the form of a child.

And he chose NOT to ascend. He went back to his plane of existance by his own choice. If he's bitter about anything, it's the fact that Ascension is not what he expected.

[Dani347]

Perhaps that's the reasoning he used to justify wanting to kill her when he had the chance.

Okay, this is probably me reading you wrong, but that sounds like he didn't say he should have shot her because he felt it was the necessary thing to do, but that he has this bloodthirst and is trying to find an excuse for it.

I don't remember when they discovered the Goa'ulds pass down memories genetically, but if he killed them thinking they could be innocent.. then I guess it's not such a moral leap for him to kill Adria in order to stop the Ori at all cost. The thing still unclear, for me, is whether Adria possess ANY human qualities, and of a child, at that. Could Daniel be sure she's really just an Ori?

Well, Vala did say the Ori created a human form child with their knowledge. It sounds like an Ori clone. But, did you have the same reservations about Prototype? Both Khalek and Adria were created by the enemy.

[Dani347]

I absolutely loved this episode - and it continues the fantastic storytelling that has given us the Ori arc which started with season 9 (yes, big fan of season 9 and I can tell I will dig 10 as well!). For those who debate if this is the Daniel we know and love because he would consider killing a child - please remember what he's gone through! The 8 years at the SGC, his Ascention, Desecention, near Ascention again all led him to become a little darker, more sarcastic person in season 9. This sarcasm and darkness continues into season 10 - its an evolution of the character, whether you like it or not. Heck, if I had lost my chance for Ascention not once, but twice, I'd be slightly bitter too!

Ascension is something Daniel found wasn't worth it. He didn't lose it. And, he didn't think Adria should be killed (because it did seem like he thought that she needed to be, not out of any particular personal desire to kill her) because he was bitter. It's not like he was saying, "Life sucks and I'm p*ssed off. Might as well take it out on this kid."

[Dani347]

Not bogus at all! That reminded me of Reese. She was an adult with the emotions of a child.. and she controlled the replicators. While she herself was not evil, she was emotionally unstable and on the verge of loosing control of the replicators. Daniel was -convinced- he could save her despite being overrun by those bugs. Was Jack justified in killing her? Would Daniel really have tried to continue to reason with her at the risk of endangering Earth? Could he have pulled the trigger if it was up to him? I think I would question any death involving a child, even in that of an adult body.

I don't think Reese had any idea that the replicators were killing. They were just toys to her. (But, now, I'm thinking I might be wrong on that score). Adria may not think the Ori are evil (but for that matter, neither do the Ori. ) but she is aware that they're killing and she's okay with that. Like Vala said, she's complicit. Strike this if Reese was shown to know and understand that the replicators were killing.

[nyxlily]

Okay, this is probably me reading you wrong, but that sounds like he didn't say he should have shot her because he felt it was the necessary thing to do, but that he has this bloodthirst and is trying to find an excuse for it.

Eep, definitely didn't mean to come across that way. I meant that Daniel would be right in killing Adria if she truly is just an Ori in human form, like he originally said. His action -would- be necessary, in that case. I would NEVER, EVER think for a second that Daniel could kill for bloodlust. No matter what! Unless the writers write him that way, at which point I'll forget that episode plus any future ones exists and live in my own little Danny world.

And with that, one call tell I'm in dire need of sleep. Good night all : D

[BigBadBob]

i saw part of the eipsode. I must say, it seems better than last year so far (after only 1 ep, you can't really tell).

[Agent_Dark]

I don't think Reese had any idea that the replicators were killing. They were just toys to her. (But, now, I'm thinking I might be wrong on that score). Adria may not think the Ori are evil (but for that matter, neither do the Ori. ) but she is aware that they're killing and she's okay with that. Like Vala said, she's complicit. Strike this if Reese was shown to know and understand that the replicators were killing.

Reese seemed to understand that they were defending her. Considering she knew what happened last time her 'toys' defended her (ie destroyed all life on her home planet), I'd say she knew what was happening.

[nyxlily]

Ascension is something Daniel found wasn't worth it. He didn't lose it. And, he didn't think Adria should be killed (because it did seem like he thought that she needed to be, not out of any particular personal desire to kill her) because he was bitter. It's not like he was saying, "Life sucks and I'm p*ssed off. Might as well take it out on this kid."

lol, that last bit amused me!

And I think I can come to terms with this whole thing. You said it wonderfully: He thought she needed to be [killed].

That puts my mind at ease.. somewhat. Now, where will he draw the line at what needs to be done? Would he cross any moral boundaries in order to put a stop to the Ori?

Okay, really.. I need sleep now!

[Dani347]

Reese seemed to understand that they were defending her. Considering she knew what happened last time her 'toys' defended her (ie destroyed all life on her home planet), I'd say she knew what was happening.

In that case, strike my post on that. I was going from memory.

[JanusAncient]

People clearly see the Ori as being evil, but not the humans of Stargate Command. They're willing to wipe out the Ori, or at least try, in order to survive, and if the Ori are telling the truth, all that they are trying to is survive as well. Adria was right, the Ancient's keep the basic truth about human existence from them. They don't share their knowledge, the Ori do. This I still think is my problem. If the Ori are never going to allow their followers to ascend, why create Prior's, Doci, Ori-ci, why give all of this knowledge, move them further down the road to ascension, if they will never be able to ascend? To be worshipped they don't need Prior's, monks will do just fine, but no

Spoiler:

monks are trained to become Prior's

I believe the reason they created Adria as she is, is to give her time to adjust to the knowledge in her mind. Because, as evil as you think the Ori are, they aren't looking for sympathy, so there's no need to pull an Orlin, if you don't believe in them, they simply destroy you, end of discussion. It's my opinion that the Ori really believe that they are doing, all that they are doing, to ensure their survival.

[Dani347]

That puts my mind at ease.. somewhat. Now, where will he draw the line at what needs to be done? Would he cross any moral boundaries in order to put a stop to the Ori?

I guess to answer that, it would be necessary to define what his moral boundaries are, and see if he acts differently from them.

Okay, really.. I need sleep now!

You are getting sleeepy. Verrry sleeepy.

[kmwhite]

I'm a big fan of what limited work the actress has already done, and I can't wait to see her in this role.

What I've seen: ...

Spoiler:

Firefly's Morena Baccarin joins Stargate-SG1:
Baccarin will play Adria, the evil daughter of Vala Mal Doran (Claudia Black, who becomes a regular on the series for the 10th season)

http://television.aol.com/tv-celebri...amanda-tapping

YES! At least I know the girl is capable of acting. The child frightens me. Those eyes scare me the most. Like the stuff nightmares are made of... however, the episode was great. I'd also like to point out, I tried checking this page inbetween the two premiers, and it crashed my browser. o_O; I think I'm happy on page whatever...

lol, that last bit amused me!

And I think I can come to terms with this whole thing. You said it wonderfully: He thought she needed to be [killed].

That puts my mind at ease.. somewhat. Now, where will he draw the line at what needs to be done? Would he cross any moral boundaries in order to put a stop to the Ori?

Okay, really.. I need sleep now!

It's been pointed out that he acts as a moral compass to the crew, but let's look at the whole thing. Kill a child, save the galaxy? I think that with the lives of all the people he loves he'd do it, but I don't know that it'll actually come to that (read Prior [semi-pun intended] spoiler).