Insiders (1004)

[JohnDuh]

If you want accuracy then how do you justify the Stargate by real world standards since there are no Stargates?

This is not a valid argument. You define a world with specific parameters, if its Superman you are asked to accept/or not, a man can fly - but if all other humans suddenly start to fly as well its nonsense - and the rebuttal can't be "but you accepted Superman could fly".
Here you accept the there is a stargate, but the military is still supposed to function like a real one or at least some people will shake their heads at it. "there are no stargates" is not a valid argument.

[binkpmmc]

Nope. Just wondering how Carter, who is supposed to be this accomplished, experienced military vet, could make such a horrible decision, and then how Landry could pat her on the head and tell her that everything was all right.

How 'bout let's take a long hard look at TPKTS and how they are sacrificing the characters to move the plot (mitchell in many eps in S9), how TPKTS are writing more and more slip-shod lazy crapola with plot-holes you can drive a tank through and out-of-character moments that boggle the mind (first Daniel defending vala to Landry and then comparing Teal'c to vala - puhleeeaze. Teal'c as damsel in distress who needs rescuing by the big, shiny new hewo, etc.)

All I want to know is what the heck that have been smoking up there at bridge - this stuff they are churning out reeks worse than week old butter in 100 degree heat.

[Fargater]

Okay if this is true why do we allow her on base never mind accepting her on SG-1? If we need her for intel then use her like Jacob or Bra'tac not an SGC member.

This has bothered me also but I`m seeing her as sort of a refugee. She`s got no one really, and seems to have made a lot of enemies, so she`s sort of like Teal`c was in the beginning. Where else is she going to go? That only gives her an excuse for being at the SGC though, it`s a BIG stretch to even think about including her in SG-1. I can see her coming on missions from time to time as a consultant or whatever, like Jacob and Bra`tac have done, but no way should she be included as a member. I like the character and all but the reasons to keep her right there have to be logical and shouldn`t include membership in SG-1.

[majorsal]

another thing i liked about this episode... baal capturing sam. i *really* wanted more danger and, dare i say, violence. what makes baal so scary is that while he's preparing to snap your neck, he's grinning and saying some roguish remark. he's a totally different goauld.

i'd like baal to have another go with sam. and this time give it more menace. maybe give it some 'abyss' flavorings...






sally

[RealmOfX]

I'm still too cranky about this episode to make much comment on it yet because when I do comment on an episode I like to present both (as I saw it) what was good about it and what was bad about it. Unfortunately, at the moment the BAD is so overiding I'm going to have to wait a few days.

I will however bring up a point. I was watching the ep as I prepared dinner so I wasn't paying 100% attention to it. A very sad comment because pre S9 NOTHING got between me and a new SG-1 episode. As I heard the comment "locater beacon" I thought "Great we get to see a new doctor, I wonder who it is?" because OBVIOUSLY you wouldn't let a prisoner keep a damn locator beacon now would you? (Hey anyone know when/if Lexa is coming back). And then things moved on and kept moving on and my next thought was "Bugger, they can't be that stupid can they?" and yes the rest of the ep proved just how stupid the entire base was. FCOL they're using the magical beam out fairy for the bad guys as well???

That whole ep was about lazy writing and it didn't need to be. You had all the elements of a really good episode and it could have been with a little effort. I posted the following in another thread just after seeing the ep, unfortunately it still holds true.

Oh great! Now they've turned all the characters into plot devices and get them to do stupid things that are against character to further the lame plot. It was bad enough having to deal with Hero, Plot Device Boy but now it would seem that they are going for the equal opportunity character decimation.

Another potentially good episode destroyed by lazy writing.

I'm too cranky at the moment to make further comment - I'm laying the blame where it deserves to be - in the writer's lazy and unprofessional writing laps. Wake up boys - we didn't all take stupid pills!!

<ETA> And in the showrunner's lap too - because they're letting it happen!!

BTW I'm glad some people liked the ep because as I said before it had all the elements of a really good ep, unfortunately I just see potential unrealised.

[the fifth man]

After watching this episode a few times already, I've come to the realization that it was even better than I first thought. I really feel that this season is off to a strong start story-wise. I hope that trend continues, which I feel it will.

[suse]

Ya know, my problem was that the behaviour of the whole of the SGC -- Landry -- was patently ridiculous from the word 'go'. Given how ridiculous and implausible everything leading up to that was, and once I wrapped my brain around McCullough's premises, I had no problem with Carter's actions.

Perhaps this statement will help me out of my rage. I'm not mad at Carter, she's a character who has been sorely abused for the last year, but I AM royally pissed at the writer and showrunner. Even the director couldn't do much without rewriting the ep.

I haven't been this pissed since Stronghold. In spite of my whinging about S9's disservice to the original SG-1 team I just k'vetshed by the later eps. Rage was over by then, except in small moments. And Camelot. That just got Pythoned.

And Ooober has a point. It's not like the weapon can be aimed at corporal beings. There's a reason for the Ancients to get involved. However nothing is stopping Baal from really scewing up the lives of those who live on those "formerly unknown to the Goa'uld" planets. Though as long as he doesn't think the locals are hiding something he's too busy on his quest-of-the-moment to do too much terrorizing - yet.


Oy. I abhore most of this ep.

Suse

[Agent_Dark]

However nothing is stopping Baal from really scewing up the lives of those who live on those "formerly unknown to the Goa'uld" planets. Though as long as he doesn't think the locals are hiding something he's too busy on his quest-of-the-moment to do too much terrorizing - yet.

I dont think Ba'al is really in any position to do much planet conquering anyway. Not enough resources and all that.

[Scyld]

The only thing I was wondering was this: why didn't Baal or one of his clones just leave his current host and take over Sam to get the code? Why bother with interrogating her at all?

[GatetheWay]

Well, I thought this ep was okay. I was happy to see Barrett when he showed up. He has always been one of my favorite reoccuring characters. I felt bad for him when he asked Sam out and she turned him down.

It was dissapointing to see Barrett all the sudden turn into a hot head. The TPTB did do a good job of making you think it was because of Landry's constant stonewalling and Barrett being majorly pressured by his superiors to get results all the way until he had that little tantrum infront of Sam and asked her if this was about "us". Right there it was obvious something was wrong with him.

I really like Barrett as a character but it bothered me how they never showed his reaction to the fact he was responsible for unleashing Baal on the SGC. The closes we got was the cring worthy line in response to the fact he stupidly brought his gun in to the holding cell, "Oh, yeah I guess I shouldn't have done that." There was no regret, no guilt, just a very cocky and unBarrett attitude thinking he was going to walk out of there without any consequences.

Despite the bad handling of Barrett in this ep I hope this isn't the last we see of him and that we find out what happened in another ep. Caldwell post Goauld convade more character then this ep did for Barrett in the second half. I think there was potential to have a lot more angst for Sam.

Other things I didn't like: Vala directing troops when she's not an officer or even from Earth! Sam giving up info way too easily (I kept on thinking she had some trick up her sleeve but apparently she is that dumb). I will always hate the Baal clones. The SGC should have seen right through Baal's BS story because Baal has killed or sacrificed his clones many times in the past and they have never turned on him, so why all of the sudden would these clones care? Landry was being a bit of an ass to Barrett. Let the poor guy have a Baal, for crying out loud.

Okay things I liked: I really like Barrett even if he's character was a bit ruined in this ep. I loved the continuity from other eps long past thought TBTP piled on a little too much exposition dialogue for my liking. Even with the campy clone arc I still like Cliff.

[Mitchell82]

This was an excellent episode and I' m glad most people enjoyed it. I'm sorry some of us are just reading way too much into this episode. The SGC didn't have much time to react, Lan dry did not order barret to go in their but he had the proper ID so the guard thought it was fine. Sam did the only thing she could in that situation, and Val didn't rerally bark orders at anyone but she has gained our trust and has the same responsibilites Teal'c does. Ok mabey not all the responsibilites but she definatly has proven herself. I had no complaints with this episode. I loved it!

[fatblond]

In fact, had she had such access, and still gave up the code, she would be courts martialed. Deservedly so. There is absolutely no way the ending could have happened with Landry telling her she did the right thing.

Now, for creativity, what ever happened to fake data? What about fractured data. It's never all in one place. Searches are possible through data but not the whole database. And it would never never be yielded up by a real military officer. That was an insult to everyone who has given his/her life for country to protect information.

I unfortunately have to agree with this. Love the show, hate the writing for Sam on this episode. This is a Lt. COLONEL in the US Air Force that has faced these guys time and time again. And yet, despite that she gives up the information to Baal that could potentially give him access to the most powerful weapon that has ever been created. One that can kill Ancients/Ori, God like beings. One that could allow Baal to take over the galaxy. Are you serious? Carter would not do that even if faced with the prospect of a few lives given up as hostages. Bad writing. Very very bad writing.

[Hunter86]

Well did anyone actually miss Daniel in this Ep? I hate to say it but not really judging from the comments on here
In general everyone seems to be happy that Vala got her chance to actually do something and everyone is pissed at Sam for folding so fast with the code thingy.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda, it's been written that way maybe for Baal to come back later or in the least for the great race for the weapon to start. The only thing I will say about the plot is that it's full of holes.
Sure we could all pick it to bits but it's not the worst I have seen nor the best I give it a 6 out of 10 mainly cause of Vala doing her thinggggg
Yeah I'm a great fan of CB she's a real hottie so sue me I'm male hehehe

[ikcor]

This episode was only "ok" (5/10).

I don't like episodes where SG-1, and especially Sam, act dumb.

It was obvious that Baal had something else up his sleeve, but they took no precautions. And Sam should know better than to give into his demands to easily.

Also, the guard shouldn't have let the dude in without so much as a radio check. He apparently had standing orders not to allow anyone else in, but he did. Baal's plan should never have worked.

This episode suffered from bad writing.

[Watt]

I unfortunately have to agree with this. Love the show, hate the writing for Sam on this episode. This is a Lt. COLONEL in the US Air Force that has faced these guys time and time again. And yet, despite that she gives up the information to Baal that could potentially give him access to the most powerful weapon that has ever been created. One that can kill Ancients/Ori, God like beings. One that could allow Baal to take over the galaxy. Are you serious? Carter would not do that even if faced with the prospect of a few lives given up as hostages. Bad writing. Very very bad writing.

I made my post before but it's worth repeating.
Her decision had galaxy wide consequenses and affecting billions of lives and she folded like a wet rag at the first mention of hostages. ( My first thought was why doesn't she break the stalemate and smash the laptop as that seemed to be the focus to access the data? but ahh well)
P*** Poor Writing (PPW) Indeed.