Insiders (1004)

[scifi woman]

[QUOTE=LMichelle However, what was up with Vala leading those soldiers and doing the handsignals? Did she take a crash course in earth military? Vala can barely stay focused during a briefing, let alone a class/seminar.
QUOTE]

Just wanted to jump in here and say that I really enjoyed the episode. I come to any TV program with an expectation of being entertained and last night's episode did just that!

In reading through the posts here in thread I am seeing many question Vala's ability to lead a squad of soldiers. I really don't understand why you all think Vala does not have the ability to be a military leader -- Ba'al himself last night paid homage to Quetesh (ala Vala) for being the briliant mind who destroyed one of his ships and a huge number of his soldiers.

The woman has a military mind (along with all her other attributes).

But before you throw rocks at me, I do understand the question of giving Vala a group to lead so quick since she is still under probationary status. That argument I will accept. But her military skills -- she's right up there with the best of them! I certainly would never under estimate her ability to lead a military campaign.

What impressed me the most last night tho was that all the actors, Ben, Claudia, Amanda, Cliff, Chris .... all seemed to be having such a good time and enjoying themselves (re, the little moments like Vala and Tealc arm-wrestling) and it translated onto the screen. And that is so infectuous. And a lot of fun to watch!

[Strix varia]

There were two good things about Insiders.

First, Vala had some good scenes in which she was actually portrayed as a competent individual with something to add to the team.

Second, Daniel was able to miss the disaster that was the rest of this horrible episode, missing the fate of everyone else who underwent a personality transplant for the sake of a terrible plot.

Clearly, this was an alternate universe episode in which Landry, Barrett, and Sam never matured into fully functional adults, being stuck with the emotional and social skills of 15 year olds. Instead of Cambo this time, we had Sambo. Instead of the professional, competent Barrett, we had infatuated, cry-baby Barrett who, like Sam, was completely unrecognisable from the character we have watched previously on the show. Teal'c, who once upon a time was a great warrior, got pinned down in a corridor by a couple of Ba'als (I can't remember when Teal's was portrayed as being so impotent and incapable in his abilities). Landry was stuck with some awful lines; Mitchell was stuck with at least one cringe-worthy stare that might be better suited to a playground bully. I won't even get into the implausible and hole-filled ending in which the entire SGC was made to look like a bunch of incompetent idiots.

Needless to say, I detested this episode.

[golfbooy]

Yeah, um, big shocker here: this week I've NOT developed a sense of either brevity or wit. So, the post won't be any shorter and the jokes won't be any funnier. Sorry. I know, I suck. What can I say? I'm working on it. I'm sure you'll all deal.

What to say about Insiders? Well, I liked most of it. Undoubtedly there were some things that didn't sit well with me, but overall it was another decent (if not great) effort, and it was certainly another episode that is far superior to just about anything posited as Stargate SG-1 in season nine. But I see they've still got problems with that pesky "resolution" part of the story, which marred an otherwise enjoyable episode. Insiders was certainly the most curious tale unfolded on SG-1 in a while, which I think is what I appreciated most about it. Kudos to the Goa'uld, whose devious plotting and cerebral intrigues kick the crap out of the flavorless Ori.

Honestly, I really liked the first, oh, three quarters of the episode. The interaction among the team during that time was certainly a step up from the norm last season. Alas, I have the sneaking suspicion that the actors and director are mostly responsible for the team's increasing comfort with each other. Alan McCollough proves once again that Prototype was a fluke (probably a heavily re-written one), and that he's grossly out of his depth when it comes to getting an entire episode right. Seriously, I'm beginning to think that McCollough has no idea how to script a believable resolution to any story. But I'm sure I'll rag on that in due course a bit further down.

I will say that one of the aspects of McCollough scripts that I do like is that they almost always draw heavily on SG-1's extensive mythos and history in order create a new story. There was much in this episode that works only because of the show's past: all the stuff about Anubis and his knowledge of the ascended, Jack and the Ancient repository, Baal's history with O'neill, Carter, and Teal'c, even the NID stuff with Barrett. So I really appreciated all of that being included in more than a cursory way. Part of what makes a Stargate episode a Stargate episode is that it fits in the series. One of my biggest problems with season nine is that they tried to ignore eight full years of story and development in favor of a clean break. That didn't work, and most of the episodes sucked bad because of the tactic. The writers have pretty much abandonded that philosophy in season ten. Flesh and Blood used Chulak to evoke a stronger emotional response from the audience, Pegasus Project was very much about Daniel getting to go to Atlantis and about his time among the ascended, and here in Insiders that trend continued. I hope the rest of season ten "fits" as well with the first eight seasons as these first four episodes have.

Now, I really don't want to involve myself heavily in the great leadership debate that dogs at and clouds over this new incarnation of the show like a good man's guilty conscience after he's gotten away with murder. But, I said above that Insiders was a curious episode. One of the reasons for that is because this episode was obviously intended to address that issue in a significant way. And I'm not just talking about Mitchell's exchange with Landry. Much was done in this episode to allay any claims Mitchell has to authority over SG-1, that bit of dialogue aside. The writers really did embrace the supposed concept of co-command (or no command) in this one, almost going to the point of Carter winning out. Most notably, there was the bit where they arrive on the scene with the crashed alkesh and the bit on the planet where she and Vala go to capture a clone. Beyond that, a number of things were done to lessen (for lack of a better term) Mitchell's authority. His words to Landry obviously fall into this category, but so do the tet-a-tet he and Sam have at the briefing table before capturing the Ba'als, Vala running off on him during "his" mission, and Carter's exclusion from the end briefing scene. The two were also blocked side-by-side at every instance in a clear attempt to disestablish any sense of one being "in front" of the other. This is most evident at the puddle pass after capturing the Ba'als and in the tag scene at the end. Overall, I'm not sure what to make of the whole thing. OK, that's a lie. I do know what to make of the whole thing, but I think discretion is the better part of valor here. It's just, um, curious.

The run up to the episode's conclusion was fine, even entertaining. Sam's cafeteria scene with Barrett was refreshing. I said elsewhere a few days ago that the only thing left (or that ever existed ) for Barrett to do in the story was die. Yay for proving me wrong. Finally he was given something to actually do in an episode, something which I think worked. It certainly helps to muddy the waters with the whole NID, and to put a little bite back into the middling Trust storyline. That said, there was obviously a missed opportunity. Like most others, I'd have preferred Barrett to be either snaked with a Goa'uld clone (a la Nightwalkers) or a za'tarc (which would have made that end scene where he turns over his gun a bit more intense). Both would have been better than a return to the weak "brainwashing" equivocacy of Stronghold. However, all this is mildly palliated by Barrett's own belief that he's still himself and the slight ambiguity as to both the truth and Barrett's fate.

Now for the crap ending. I've not been a great fan of Allan McCullough, as I feel that each of his scripts haven't been thought through enough to alllow for proper resolution. The only exception to that has been Prototype, though it's my understanding that was only because both Peter DeLuise and Ben Browder agreed on the day of filming that that story's denouement should be changed. I've already read where a number of people feel that Sam acted out of character at the end of Insiders. I don't think so. See, there's a difference between being out of character and writing your characters into a corner, which is what happened here (the same thing happened to Daniel in Affinity). In fact, Ba'al was given very specific dialogue in order to tell the audience why Sam was giving him the code. He says to her (but tells the audience) that her belief that he's trapped inside the mountain is false, but that SG-1's belief that it was so was necessary to get anyone in the mountain to give him the code. I believe that McCullough was trying to put forth that Sam believed the hostages were the greatest problem at the time, and that Ba'al's potential escape was an impossibility. But it didn't work, for a number of reasons. Firstly, Ba'al is a Goa'uld. Through any number of various past situations it should have been evident that he was clever enough to escape. Secondly, SG-1 had been suspicious of Ba'al's motives from the start. Thirdly, too often the audience has seen Sam somehow stall, double-cross, trick, disable, or otherwise inveigle would-be captors or villains. To not do so here is a major cop out from McCollough. If you have to have your characters do stupid things in order to finish a story, you've failed miserably. Throw in the "stupidest SF ever gag" and the shakey "all the Ba'als are suddenly free" jump, and you're really stretching the bounds of believability. There's no doubt that this one was scripted by the same writer who created "Fat Jaffa, the most inept Jaffa ever" in Stronghold.

End of Part I (Oh, for Christ's sake)

[golfbooy]

Part II (you've got to be kidding me forums)

Right, now on to the characters. Landry was good for most of the episode, but he's still got an attitude problem when it comes to dealing with others. For some reason he seems to think that he should be afforded credit for all the work that Hammond and O'neill did while they were at the SGC. His unwarranted snobbery towards Barrett and his impatience with Dr. Lee just rub me the wrong way. Do something productive, then maybe you can gloat. Speaking of productive, this was one of the first episodes where I sat up and said, "Hammond or O'neill would never do this". Like with Sam, Landry hesitating to use the symbiote poison immediately is just a dumb ass thing to do to a character. What, suddenly the symbiote poison doesn't kill instantly? Come on, McCollough.

Next, there's Daniel. Well, not really. But I do want to say that I wish there was a better excuse for Daniel not being at the SGC than him being away at Camelot. Couldn't the writers have allowed him to hang out on Atlantis for a little bit? What about the next episode? Is he still going to be all alone out there scouring Merlin's library? This is the same lame manner in which Amanda Tapping's time off was poorly accounted for in the story. It's boring and lazy.

Teal'c also didn't get to do squat this week, but the scene of him arm wrestling with Vala was great. I would have really liked to have a scene of Teal'c interrogating one of the Ba'als to go along with the rest of the cast. Honestly, just about the entire bit between Mitchell and Ba'al probably should have gone to Teal'c. He's the one with all the recent history with Ba'al, not Mitchell. And all that stuff about how evil and threatening the real Ba'al could be would have sounded a lot more credible coming from Teal'c instead of Mitchell. Teal'c has at least lived it. Please, writers, all of you. Do more with Teal'c.

I liked most of what they did with Vala this week. As far as fitting in with the team goes, she's a much better addition than Mitchell will ever be. Vala's interaction with Carter and Teal'c in this one was really well done. Carter and Vala did finally speak to each other. Way to step up there, writers. I knew you could do it. Also, I liked the bit with her running off to get the Jaffa's attention. That played well. Also a nice touch was Ba'als recognizing Vala as Quetesh. That's how backstory should be introduced, not with a big giant hammer marked "BACKSTORY".

Again, as I've said before, I think the big ol' reset has been hit on Mitchell. Four episodes into the season the jokey, brash guy from last season has been forsaken for this more subdued, grown-up version of the character. He's now quiet, almost to the point of being overly somber. Still, I find this Mitchell far more tolerable than previous incarnations, and he fit into this story pretty well, too. Having hit on the leadership bit above, I'm uninclined to speak further on the issue until a later date.

For almost all of Insiders, Carter was great. Confident and collected, this is the first time since season eight that I can really say that she was written as the lead character in an episode. It was quite natural for Carter to be ordering everyone around (yes, even Mitchell), and I don't feel that anyone else's character needed to be sacrificed in order to have that happen. I was glad to see Carter's past history with Barrett touched upon, but not overplayed for laughs or used to jerk the audience around. The commissary scene between the two of them accounted for just about the only conflict between characters this season. Conflict is not evil; it's necessary. As such, it would have been nice to see Carter angry at everyone else for not backing her up sufficiently when it came to Ba'al. If you were going to play it as if she thought the Ba'als would be immediately taken out (with symbiote poison), why not have her be angry at Landry's waiting? Conversely, it would have been nice to see Landry angry that Carter hadn't been able to buy him more time. Alas, not in New Stargate.

The Goa'uld are just a really versatile villain. Cliff Simon is great as Ba'al, and I like seeing him. But it'd also be great to get another fallen system lord out there to mix things up. Overall, the interrogation scenes were probably his best. I'm tired of the clones, though. If the Ba'al marked #1 was intended to be the real Ba'al, then the writers needed to do more to convey that. If not, the real Ba'al really needs to make an appearance soon. Kill the clones for crying out loud. They're too disposable.

Uninvited is next week, and I'm not too sure about that one. We'll see, but that monster looks funny. I don't think that's what they're shooting for. Hey, at least it doesn't hiss like the Wraith. At least I don't think so. On a happier note, Siler lives! I can't be the only one to be astounded that Jack and Siler were both onscreen last night. Woo hoo!

[DEM]

(T)his was one of those episodes you had to put your brain into hibernate for.

The episode did it for me.

And as much as I wish Carter had been able to foil Baal, (and in this episode she couldn't b/c that would have spoiled TPTB plans for Baal down the road) letting him slaughter the hostages would not have done it. As Agent Dark says, it would have been a needless bloodbath.

Okay, I'm still catching up with the posts and I freely admit to being stupourous for stretches of the episode, so forgive in advance.... Did they SHOW the hostages after they were first captured? See, I kept forgetting them; ergo, no feeling of peril; ergo, little understanding of or empathy with Landry's and Carter's dilemmas.

A plot device I specifically want to point out and mock: The idea that Baal cracked the computer system sufficiently enough so that the desired file was already 'open' and as soon as Carter entered an access code the data began downloading. The heck?! Way to force the issue, Mr McWriter.

[DEM]

First of all, curse you, golfbooy! My fries are getting cold.

In fact, Ba'al was given very specific dialogue in order to tell the audience why Sam was giving him the code. He says to her (but tells the audience) that ... SG-1's belief that {he is trapped} was necessary to get anyone in the mountain to give him the code. I believe that McCullough was trying to put forth that Sam believed the hostages were the greatest problem at the time, and that Ba'al's potential escape was an impossibility. But it didn't work, for a number of reasons. Firstly, Ba'al is a Goa'uld. Through any number of various past situations it should have been evident that he was clever enough to escape. Secondly, SG-1 had been suspicious of Ba'al's motives from the start. Thirdly, too often the audience has seen Sam somehow stall, double-cross, trick, disable, or otherwise inveigle would-be captors or villains.

Yes, exactly so. What percentage of the audience do we suppose did NOT know that Baal was likely to pull a fast one? So, unless one really cranks up the peril, makes the Catch-22 so large and so binding, the characters look stupid falling for it. Neither the script nor the direction delivered.

HOWEVER, I do want to say this: A bad outcome does not a bad decision make.

(Oy, the Blue Angels just flew overhead. Go Thunderbirds!)

I would have really liked to have a scene of Teal'c interrogating one of the Ba'als to go along with the rest of the cast. Honestly, just about the entire bit between Mitchell and Ba'al probably should have gone to Teal'c. He's the one with all the recent history with Ba'al, not Mitchell. And all that stuff about how evil and threatening the real Ba'al could be would have sounded a lot more credible coming from Teal'c instead of Mitchell. Teal'c has at least lived it. Please, writers, all of you. Do more with Teal'c.

It was quite natural for Carter to be ordering everyone around (yes, even Mitchell), and I don't feel that anyone else's character needed to be sacrificed in order to have that happen.

And no one's was. See, it CAN be done!

I liked most of what they did with Vala this week. As far as fitting in with the team goes, she's a much better addition than Mitchell will ever be. Vala's interaction with Carter and Teal'c in this one was really well done. Carter and Vala did finally speak to each other.

Yeah, I gotta admit Vala was much better -- save for the leading of the SFs.

I also like the way Vala seems to hang onto Carter's every word.

Conflict is not evil; it's necessary.

Very enjoyable read, golfbooy.

[esoap524]

I loved this episode. This is like one of those normal old SG-1s that made the show cool. Also: VALA RULES! I started out as one of the anti-Vala people, back when Season 9 was starting. Now I love her. She really adds a spark to the show, amongst AT's creepily and unnaturally demure new portrayal of Sam and CJ's same old Teal'c. And most of the time, Cameron is just "there" for me. So yeah, Vala is very much welcome.

Don't you think Carter should have slugged Barrett, or at least called him out a little more when he got in her face like that? That was a bit extreme on his part. yeah, I know, mind control. Carter's got some self control, that's for sure.

I also like the way Vala seems to hang onto Carter's every word.

DEM, amen to that. I'm glad to see that it doesn't appear that there will be any catfighting between these two. You can tell Carter gets annoyed with her every now and then but that's because of her behavior not the whole female/female thing. It's kind of the same look she gets with McKay sometimes.

And I'm firmly placed in the VALA RULES! camp.

[Strix varia]

And I'm firmly placed in the VALA RULES! camp.

If they keep her dressed and going in the same direction for the rest of the season, I could easily be converted to a Vala fan. I very much liked her in Insiders and wished she'd had more to do in Pegasus Project.

[Uranium118]

Good episode. I like how SG1 lost this time. They usually always win and now they lost in this episode, a little change can't hurt.

[Dani347]

Yeah, um, big shocker here: this week I've NOT developed a sense of either brevity or wit. So, the post won't be any shorter and the jokes won't be any funnier. Sorry. I know, I suck. What can I say? I'm working on it. I'm sure you'll all deal.

Wit is always good, so if you feel you're lacking, I wouldn't mind some work in that area. But, do not strive for brevity under any circumstances. I like reading you're incredibly long analysis (I don't know the plural) of the episodes.

[Miyth]

I'm not sure how I feel about this episode, although it was about time they re-opened the whole Ba'al insident.

[Farscapefan]

Sorry to say this, but the way things are going I really do hope SG1 gets cancelled There is no excuse for what they have done, and they don't deserve to go on. To me SG1 ended after the end of S8.

Really? It's getting better and better IMO. And saying that you're hoping the show gets cancelled is extremely selfish. You don't like it? Stop watching and let others (like me) ENJOY IT AS LONG AS POSSIBLE.

Insiders are really good episode. And surprisingly I haven't even missed Daniel very much.

[Mr.Clark]

numpty, I suspected that Barrett had a cloned Baal symbiote in him.

I thought that, then I thought that Sam would sense it and sound the alarm.

About the hostage situation... consider this.

Sam refuses to divulge the information. Baal threatens the hostages. Sam still refuses. Baal kills a hostage. Sam refuses. Repeat until hostageTotal = '0'.

Baal then gets two of the clones to grab Carter, and a third one to implant it's sybiote into her. They then kill the clone and give the transponder to Carter-Baal.

THEN Baal has the information and all the knowledge that Carter possesses.

I'd say that was a lose-lose situation really.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

I disagree - Jack led through loyalty. Teal'c and Daniel were fiercely loyal to him and would follow him to Nehtu and back. So yeah, he did have control of "his" team. The problem is that SG-1 is still primarily Jack's team, not Cam's. Cam would have been a great addition to Jack's team, and that's what he was expecting to become when he requested the assignment. He did get the gang pulled back together, but without the leader that they all loved, it has a very different dynamic.

Tonight's episode was nice. Not flashy, not over the top, but nice. My husband and I were laughing over all the Baal jokes. We wanted to see just how far the writers were going to take it - and they took it pretty darn far!

okay i agree with this Jack O'Neill led SG-1 for 7 years Teal'c automatically trusted o'neill back in the first few episodes of SG-1 Season 1. (or do i have that switched around)? Carter- well we know he has something for her that goes beyond friendship and their ranks. and Daniel- he had some problems with jack but that never stop from them forming a friendship i think all of them would do anything for one another. Cam needs to know that its going to take time for him to get where the team is with o'neill.

[Mandysg1]

For those of you that don't agree with my post, just remember its only my opinion and has no bearing on ratings or if the show is cancelled.

Really? It's getting better and better IMO. And saying that you're hoping the show gets cancelled is extremely selfish. You don't like it? Stop watching and let others (like me) ENJOY IT AS LONG AS POSSIBLE.

Insiders are really good episode. And surprisingly I haven't even missed Daniel very much.

Oh I guess you didn't read my little note at the bottom, my hoping for the cancellation of the show, will not get it cancelled.

Driving fans away will get it cancelled, and from what I've seen of the ratings, they seem to be doing that quite well.