The Cam and Vala discussion thread

[ParadoxRealities]

Well then I conceed your point. I haven't watched PU in a while and can't remember line by line. But as a space pirate, I think Vala gave them the better chance of survial by beaming them on board that ship. She could have just as easliy beamed them on board the other one. I'm not saying that Vala was right in her action, I am saying they are plausible actions for her character to have taken at the time. Also I think that if she hadn't escaped she would have been thrown in Area 51 with no reprieve.

i completely agree with you. i like Vala in PU, and i wish we (I) saw more of that her. doesn't mean she didn't commit attempted murder.

And further more, I'm sorry that I haven't read/am not proficient in the the Colorado Penal Code in regards to a tv show. As only a student, an art student at that, and a simple fan I look at the show for what I see it as and that is an hour of entertainment. I enjoy the show and the characters, I might not get all the science and military nuances, but I really don't mind. Vala stole a ship, she and Daniel had an amusing and entrainting encounter, we got a slight introduction to the Lucien Allience, Novak gave them a fighting chance, Hammond saved the day, we got the Promethues back, Vala escaped. We now have a character that might or might not be introduced. Daniel stayed on Earth. Credits roll. And I'm happy, because I love this show.

tehe. i'm about as clueless about the colorado penal code as you are. what little i know i get from law and order, which is where i got the idea to look it up. (the UCMJ, however, i do know.) i haven't watched PU in over a year, but i tend to do quite a bit of research--most of which is totally and unnecessarily time consuming and futile--in these discussions. to be honest, i pulled up the transcript and did a double-take, because i hadn't remembered it specifically either.
i liked PU just fine. it what fun and exciting, though it did run a little long. i loved that hammond got to save the day, and novak was great. but vala's still an attempted murder, and i don't enjoy complete disregard for that fact when she's let on the team. i'll admit that i'm probably more aware of, and care more about, the scientific and military nuances of the show. which actually makes this more of a fall for me, because even with that knowledge, i used to be able to suspend my disbelief. vala's role in s9/10, in part, ruined that for me. and, understandably i hope, i dislike that.
this truly isn't a compliant about vala's character--though i do have a few of those for the current season (and 9). it's about her role and the way she's treated on the show.
i'm sorry if i was :ahem: overly passionate before. you seem like quite a nice person and there was no reason for any aggression in my previous posts that i may or may not have been able to eliminate.

[isabelqc]

I also do wish we had see more of that Vala. Personally, I found her too cool for words. But thinking about it now, and after watching some "Farscape" episode, I think they just wanted to separate her character from Aryen's who was a pretty bad ass tough kinda chick. Hence the more sex-up angle we got later.

Thank you. I understand about going back and doing some extra research when going into these discussions, I don't always do it (obviously), unless I'm 100% sure that I'm at least 50% in the wrong, and I didn't think I was, so I didn't mind the correction. I still stand by my thoughts that her actions were in character and while not in the best intentions, Vala is not as cruel and callous as some of the other baddies in the galaxy. She's a survivor and while her actions in the past are less than honorable she has her own justification in them. (Also, I too, have used other shows and what get from them to justify my other fandoms at time)

It's very understandable. I know I've had moments in many shows where I think that the writers have just glossed over certain past things to have the show and their future ideas work for them. And I know I wasn't happy with those decisions, Vala reintroduction just wasn't one of them. But I get that it might have been for you.

Also understandable. I'm a big Vala fan and I've had moments like those too. Personally, I think they could have done better and much more with her character in some areas. I appreciate the apology, and it's okay, because we all sometimes get overly passionate about things. It just means that you really care about the show or whatever it is that you are protecting/standing up for. Many people wouldn't have even done that. Fandom is a beautiful, odd, passionate, and diverse world and we all are entitled to our opinions, even if we don't all see eye to eye.

[ParadoxRealities]

thank you.
i wouldn't know about wanting to differentiate vala from aryen, since my farscape viewing is limited. by limited, i mean one. but if you say so, then i guess i'm kinda happy TPTB attempted to do so. but there were certainly many other ways to go that would have served both us and them better. <<IMO
and, just to be clear (to everyone), the colorado penal code excerpt isn't from law and order. it's from the coloardo penal code.

[Jackie]

So did I! I loved Stargate right from the beginning, but with Sam, Teal'c, Daniel and Jack we did not have eight years of another team to compare them too. They were completely new characters with no basis (except the movie) for comparison and I think we can all agree that the Jack in the movie was quite different than the Jack in the show, though in his defense that year after Abydos probably mellowed him a bit. Cam and Vala had the distinct disadvantage of being seen as the "replacements", the usurpers of the 'original team', which a lot of people didn't take too.

And in Cam's defense he did not look to be a leader. He was given the position without even expecting it. Hell, I think if AT hadn't been on maternity leave for that first half of the season we might have seen a difference in the way the team was commanded, and honestly, we might have not seen a Vala at all, but she was on maternity leave and so the show had to work their way around that.



Again, so do I. I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear, because I love early Daniel. I love the early team too. As for the more time thing, I think that the character's development would have happened more organically like it happen with the early team. I will admit that when I first heard "they are bringing new character in" I did a *facepalm*- 'Not again, on another show', but after watching s9 I shrugged and wasn't as disappointed as I thought I would be. But to each his own. Oh and again sorry I wasn't clearer. I meant that he was younger than Jack not Sam. I think Sam and Cam are probably a couple years apart, at most.



I'm not going to disagree and say Cam's introduction was flawless, because it wasn't. Here I think the writers wanted to distance him from the Crichton character (for all the fans that crossed over) and maybe the execution was lacking at times. But I think Cam in s10 grew into his SG boots so to say.



(That 'clever' was actually a lil bit sarcastic- much scarcasm is lost in the written word, but I digress)

Maybe so, but it was a plot device that the writers chose to do for better or worse. Attempted murderer? When? If we're talking about PU then I disagree. She never put the people she beamed in to the Al'kesh in mortal peril. She did leave them 'dead in the water' so to speak since she disable the crystal for the engines, but they had life support and power. It was the other Al'kesh that had little to no life support, but it did have the crystals they needed for the engines hence Hammond ringing on board. She may have been a liability of world being susceptible to both her husband and daughter (but that could be argued for Teal'c in the first seasons too- again I digress b/c I love Teal'c and would never want him off the show), but again that was the writers choice to make her a full member. In more realistic world Vala might have become a member of SG-1 much later in the show after a few trial and tribulations, if at all.

But these are just my personal opinions and I love Vala and Cam, you are all entitled to disagree with them as you see fit.

Actually, Cam did ask for it. He was given any thing he wanted becuase he saved SG-1 over antartica. He asked for SG-1.

When he found out SG-1 was disbanned and he could pick his own team...as leader...he went back and got Sam, Daniel and Teal'c.

He did ask for SG-1. He was told he could have what ever he wanted by Jack O'Neill during his hospital stay. Of course, those were Cam's flashbacks and the writers never told us just how much pain killer he was on.

[isabelqc]

First off your last line made me giggle, and in a good way. Interesting point. How much pain killers was he on? *ponders*

Okay, I see your point. I just meant that at first, when he first got to the base he thought he was joining SG-1 as a fifth member (which honestly that I would have definitely 'huh-ed' at). I don't think he excepted to become the new leader of the new SG-1 team, but when he saw that he could have anyone he wanted he decided to "get the band back together". But that's just my opinion on Cam and his introduction. Sorry that my explanation caused confusion in the point I was trying to make.

EDIT: Sorry, above I meant fourth member of SG-1, because Jack was running the base when we left off in s8, sometimes my brain forgets that he technically wasn't part of the team anymore. Damn brain... And now that my brain is retracing its steps and thinking back on the beginning of s9, I would have probably still raised an eyebrow at Cam's entrance, but would have still been open to see how he did and how they would have added him.

[Jackie]

I have to rethink mitchell a bit. I think he expected to get assigned to SG-1 under Colonel Carter in the first episode. He wanted to "learn from the best" line would indicate that.

Then, he was told he could make up his own team and lead it from Landry. He rejected everyone sent to him and then he went out and got the first team back--minus Jack of course.

So, he didn't ask to lead the team but he did want to be on the team.

I think TPTB could have made many long time fans happy if he was either a higher rank or lower rank than Carter.

It would have been more fitting if Colonle Carter was promoted to full bird Colonel when she went to Area 51. That would be more in libe with her position there. Then, when she came back to SG-1 there would have been some real command issues for her and Mitchell to work out. She would be taking over his command.

He would effectivly lose his command to Sam via his own doing. That would have made Carter supporters much happier and placed Mitchell in second in command.

I would have liked to have seen Mitchell as a bit of a historian with the Air Force. Like one of those pilots who know all about ww2 warbirds. It would have been neat to have Mitchell talk non stop about his P-51 Mustang and about flying instead of the motorcycle wheely and the classic ford mustang that TPTB gave him to make him look cool.

I can see this character as a huge warbird fan and trying to get Carter to go up in his plane--the way Jack would get them to go fishing. He could walk around the base with trading cards of vintage ariplanes and drilling everyone on aircraft states. That would gove Mitchell a cool demention without making him cliche.

Hmm, perhaps I might write a little fic with Mitchell flying warbird? Sounds like something this character might do.

[ParadoxRealities]

I think TPTB could have made many long time fans happy if he was either a higher rank or lower rank than Carter.

some sort of experience would be great too. maybe a reason for being there, about being the most qualified. something that, maybe, made sense. and make him a better officer. ground officer. off-world ground officer. skilled off-world ground officer. relevant skills. unique.

It would have been more fitting if Colonle Carter was promoted to full bird Colonel when she went to Area 51. That would be more in libe with her position there. Then, when she came back to SG-1 there would have been some real command issues for her and Mitchell to work out. She would be taking over his command.

she didn't have the TIG to do that. she was a Lt. Col. for a year, IPZ is 3 years, BPZ is 2 (recommended and in 10%). frocking's a possibility. she'd have to be confirmed by the Senate and approved by the AFSLMO. if Area 51 is joint-service and/or international, or she'd be over high ranking officers.

[Mandysg1]

she didn't have the TIG to do that. she was a Lt. Col. for a year, IPZ is 3 years, BPZ is 2 (recommended and in 10%). frocking's a possibility. she'd have to be confirmed by the Senate and approved by the AFSLMO. if Area 51 is joint-service and/or international, or she'd be over high ranking officers.

Okay, even I'm confused about all those letters

[ParadoxRealities]

Okay, even I'm confused about all those letters

i went fast because i wasn't sure anyone would care.

she hadn't spend enough time as a Lt. Col. to be promoted at that time. the normal minimum time is three years, but some can be promoted in two. frocking, or using a rank before you're actually promoted, would be a possibility. assuming Area 51 is either a joint-service (more than just air force), or international, or she's considered a group commander or higher and needs to oversee higher-ranking officers. she'd also need to be confirmed by the senate and approved by the air force senior leader management office. most of the other options were repealed. i think that about covers it.

[Jackie]

i went fast because i wasn't sure anyone would care.

she hadn't spend enough time as a Lt. Col. to be promoted at that time. the normal minimum time is three years, but some can be promoted in two. frocking, or using a rank before you're actually promoted, would be a possibility. assuming Area 51 is either a joint-service (more than just air force), or international, or she's considered a group commander or higher and needs to oversee higher-ranking officers. she'd also need to be confirmed by the senate and approved by the air force senior leader management office. most of the other options were repealed. i think that about covers it.

But why should the show bother to follow regs now. They haven't for over 2 years.

She was the HEAD of research and devolpment in Area 51. Wouldn't that position be preferably under a full bird?

[Skydiver]

i guess it would depend. and yeah, following regs isn't thier strong suit.

now, to another matter, what do you guys think of changing the title of this thread to include 'did hte writing of cam & vala kill the show' since...i think the general concensus of posts htat i've read are more along that line

[RealmOfX]

i guess it would depend. and yeah, following regs isn't thier strong suit.

now, to another matter, what do you guys think of changing the title of this thread to include 'did hte writing of cam & vala kill the show' since...i think the general concensus of posts htat i've read are more along that line

Don't change it, it's a valid question and it has been the title for quite a long time.

[Jackie]

i guess it would depend. and yeah, following regs isn't thier strong suit.

now, to another matter, what do you guys think of changing the title of this thread to include 'did hte writing of cam & vala kill the show' since...i think the general concensus of posts htat i've read are more along that line

Don't change it!

I would never be able to find this thread. I have C.R.S.

[ParadoxRealities]

But why should the show bother to follow regs now. They haven't for over 2 years.

She was the HEAD of research and devolpment in Area 51. Wouldn't that position be preferably under a full bird?

it's not necessarily necessary.

i did said it was a possibility. the probability would depend on the set up.

how about "Did Vala/Cam (or something else) kill stargate?" DVCOSEKS?

[RealmOfX]

it's not necessarily necessary.

i did said it was a possibility. the probability would depend on the set up.

how about "Did Vala/Cam (or something else) kill stargate?" DVCOSEKS?

Why change it? It's had the name for 9 months now.