The Cam and Vala discussion thread

[suse]

Can you point to me where in the script (although with these writers i wouldnt be suprised) where O'Neill was "courting Mitchell to even be on SG-1 let alone LEAD SG-1. I do "know" O'Neill and as much as he likes to "stick it to the man" he clearly stated in season 8 he would never ever let any inexperienced person be on SG-1 nor go through the gate no matter who they were or what medals they had.

Egads, don't even get me started on the medals. What an insult to those who *earned* the CMoH. Wonders if Paradox Realities still has the MoH candy machine emoticon...Maybe he'd have gotten it if the rules were what they were in the Civil War, but they are nigh on impossible to get today - you know, so they are the highest honor a soldier can get.

If I were the AF - or the Navy as they are working with Stargate for the second movie - I'd flat out refuse and explain why in one and two syllable words to be sure TPTB understood exactly why.

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[suse]

You know, I think they forgot to show the part where Jack went to every hospital room, and promised the same thing to every pilot that was injured in the fight over Antartica. But wait, if Cam was shot down, then he didn't save SG1, the other pilots who remained in the fight did...does that mean Jack promised all those pilots who also saved SG1 any spot they wanted Some how I don't think the military works that way, and the SGC would have a heck of a lot of new recruits

Exactamundo!


I've wondered that. Did they all also turn out the leaders of the teams (done 'behind the scenes' as a scaleback and transfer out) so they can lead them? Or did they only do that to the lone female??Will not revisit Who Should Lead, will NOT revisit WSL... Gah!

The odd thing is I'd not have minded Cam as a new member, even if he did all the same stuff he did. Just had repercussions. Scubbing toilets with a toothbrush for a week sounds like a good start. And was integrated and not shoved into a slot he was never even designed by the writers to fit. TPTB admitted they left wanted hime to be able to be written as both 1) and 2) hot-headed to the point of going off half-cocked in a battle situation. Unfortunately point 1 is negated when point 2 happens. At least in the military.

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[Skydiver]

I do wonder how Mitchell managed to get top secret reports sent to him in the hospital. Whether it be an airforce hospital or not. Wouldn't that info be restricted.

yep. course so would just leaving a top sekret alien toy lying around...but they did that in ...oh that episode too

[ParadoxRealities]

Wonders if Paradox Realities still has the MoH candy machine emoticon...

wazn't me. ...i think. right?

Just had repercussions.

that's the key, i think. the key that wasn't covered in WSL ad nauseam. there are no consequences for anything anymore. Vala or Cam, even Jackson, Teal'c, and Sam (to a lesser extent).

[Skydiver]

Don't even get me started on the easy out clause. It was way TOO convenient. So Cam had read every single mission report and was suddenly an expert on the Stargate program on par with Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c who have been there since day one? Talk about a plausibility problem. The way that they had Mitchell just jump right in to the thick of things with absolutely no adjustment period simply because he'd read some reports was one of the biggest problems of season 9 for me.

i seem to recall jonas being crucified on a regular basis for 'i read about that in doctor jackson's journals'...which is the same thing.

reading a mission report does NOT mean you know what happened. HOw can they distill days/weeks of action/activity into 3 pages with bullet points??

they can't.

but it was a writer cop out. cam knew what the story needed him to know and didn't know what they needed him to ask about

An adjustment period would have made a big differnce in the way Cam was welcomed by the fans. Most everyone I talked to liked the idea of Bowder coming to the show. But, it just wasn't done right.

The actor was the draw...just needed to bring him in a realistic way.

very much so. generally speaking, adding him was fine. the show needed someone to fill jack's shoes. It's not that they did it, it's how

it's almost like the writers sat back and said, "We got Black and Bowder. They are so huge we don't really need to write anymore."

i do feel like they did that. LIke it was 'ok, well we got them, their fans will LOVE what we do, no matter what we do, so let's have some fun!!!!!'

I do feel, had cam and vala been written better, people would feel a lot differently about them right now

[SG13-NightOps]

I think it was the Ori story line.

I was (as is probably evident by my username) a member of the SGC site that was created by Ryan, sponsored by Sho, then dumped by SciFi. Obviously a site that large I know a fairly big contingent of stargate fans... and the ones I still talk to or read their comments - found the Ori a lot less satisfying than the Goa'uld.

Despite loving the Stargate Franchise, i will admit that fighting the all powerful Ori didnt even hold me as well as the show had.

Personally I think Cam and Vala are great characters - Cam is no Jack, but he was Cameron and I prefer that. They didnt "try" to give us another Jack. He had some great rapport with Daniel too. Watching Return Part 2 really shows one how much you do miss a character - but I think given my family moved a lot and I had to get used to new schools and new friends every other year - I outgrown getting so attached to someone that the world ends, the sun caves in and I simply cant go on if they take them off my favourite show.

I'm always willing to give new characters a go all on their own, without letting my personal thoughts about the loss of the character they are replacing, influence my opinion.

[suse]

I do wonder how Mitchell managed to get top secret reports sent to him in the hospital. Whether it be an airforce hospital or not. Wouldn't that info be restricted.

yep. course so would just leaving a top sekret alien toy lying around...but they did that in ...oh that episode too

Yep. It would be restricted. So if he managed to read all the reports what did he do with the top sekret ones when he was done? Hw was doing massive therapy relearning to *walk* Was it someone's job to bring the poor mite something to read then sit with him so if he fell asleep (pain meds will do that to you) and a nurse/doctor/therapist/janitor/kitchen aide came in who didn't happen to have the proper clearances wouldn't have access to the *classified top secret* documents?

The same goes for the friend too. Not everyone who had access to the friend could possibly have clearance to see *in use* the off-world tech.

Oy.

Yeah, I'd say the writing of Cam and Vala *bored* in a few nails. (Or loose screws). It's better in S10, but IMO the writing of Mitchell did more long-term damage than Vala. He, at least, is supposed to adhere to Earth values as written for *8* years by TPTB. Oops.

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[Skydiver]

i too have always had issues with the Ori.

I'm sure it ws meant as some statement on current events but...it's a lose/lose situation.

Ori are fantatics. You can't 'win' against a fanatic unless you kill them. And if you kill the ringleaders for lack of a better word, all you have left are ticked off followers.

and, to make matters worse, beyond destroying all non-beleivers....have we EVER gotten proof that they're evil? And i don't mean daniel said so. I mean PROOF that they're not ascending folks?

To the best of my knowledge all we've got against them is their intolance and murders of non-believers. and yeah, that's not nice, but we've never gotten more than one side of the story.

The ancients told daniel that they're bad, thus they must be bad. (and remember the Ancients are these nice folks that like to experiment on sentient beings and hold them captive so that they can study them... real upstanding members of society)

The Ori are nothing more than faceless poweful beings.

At least with the goa'uld we had proof. we could free people from slavery, we could witness what they're doing and there was no metaphysical mumbojumbo going on.

the Ori were flawed from their inception...a cool idea that was never fully thought out and explored

[suse]

I think it was the Ori story line.

I was (as is probably evident by my username) a member of the SGC site that was created by Ryan, sponsored by Sho, then dumped by SciFi. Obviously a site that large I know a fairly big contingent of stargate fans... and the ones I still talk to or read their comments - found the Ori a lot less satisfying than the Goa'uld.

Despite loving the Stargate Franchise, i will admit that fighting the all powerful Ori didnt even hold me as well as the show had.

Personally I think Cam and Vala are great characters - Cam is no Jack, but he was Cameron and I prefer that. They didnt "try" to give us another Jack. He had some great rapport with Daniel too. Watching Return Part 2 really shows one how much you do miss a character - but I think given my family moved a lot and I had to get used to new schools and new friends every other year - I outgrown getting so attached to someone that the world ends, the sun caves in and I simply cant go on if they take them off my favourite show.

I'm always willing to give new characters a go all on their own, without letting my personal thoughts about the loss of the character they are replacing, influence my opinion.

Yeah. Flushed are the Ori.

I haven't seen *anyone* here say they were looking for Mitchell to replace Jack. In fact most Cam/Vala detractors say fresh blood is a good thing. I was looking forward to Browder coming. Just not the way his character was introduced. It's insulting.

I gave Mitchell a go. Every week there was a new ep I tried to find something I liked about him. All it took was one "I am Hewo, here me order those who have years of experience doing this roar" comment to quash *weeks* of likability build-up. Up til the night 200 aired. It ended there.


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[ReganX]

O'Neill was "courting" him to lead the new SG1,he thanked him for saving their life, and he promised Cam he could do whatever he wanted after he got out. I guess CAM wanted to join SG1 because before he fell down he knew about it (Hammond gave him orders to protect SG1 at all costs), so Jack put him up to speed. You know Jack, he likes to stick it to the MAN .

Did I miss the part where Mitchell developed super-duper healing powers that would allow him to go from lying flat on his back facing a ton of rehab to being fully fit for active duty in a week?

That's how long Sam had been gone before Mitchell arrived, so when Mitchell was approved for a place on SG-1, it is almost certain that Sam was still in command and since Jack is not utterly devoid of intelligence, I cannot see him wanting to replace an officer he had worked with for years and who he knew to be experienced, competent and highly intelligent with an inexperienced and unknown quantity. Even if Sam hadn't been in the picture, it would have been idiotic to give Mitchell command of the flagship team without giving him a chance to gain some experience on missions with another SG team first.

Furthermore, it was made clear that Jack never invited Mitchell to join SG-1; Mitchell was the one who decided that he was worthy of the coveted fourth spot.

As far as Mitchell knowing about SG-1 goes, there is a big difference between knowing of their existence, maybe having a general idea of some of their exploits and getting full access to their mission reports.

[ReganX]

The same goes for the friend too. Not everyone who had access to the friend could possibly have clearance to see *in use* the off-world tech.

I always felt that it was ridiculous that Mitchell's friend was allowed access to any material related to the stargate. It's secret - or at least it's supposed to be. Mitchell's friend did not need to know and, to put it bluntly, he wasn't in a position to help them in any way, as Jacob was when he was told.

Mitchell feeling bad was simply not a good enough reason to give access to his friend.

Had Mitchell shared information without permission, it would have made a bit more sense.

[ReganX]

Can you point to me where in the script (although with these writers i wouldnt be suprised) where O'Neill was "courting Mitchell to even be on SG-1 let alone LEAD SG-1. I do "know" O'Neill and as much as he likes to "stick it to the man" he clearly stated in season 8 he would never ever let any inexperienced person be on SG-1 nor go through the gate no matter who they were or what medals they had.

Thank you!

[ReganX]

Don't even get me started on the easy out clause. It was way TOO convenient. So Cam had read every single mission report and was suddenly an expert on the Stargate program on par with Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c who have been there since day one? Talk about a plausibility problem. The way that they had Mitchell just jump right in to the thick of things with absolutely no adjustment period simply because he'd read some reports was one of the biggest problems of season 9 for me.

Even if he had memorized the reports, I thought that he looked ridiculous when he was parroting his knowledge to the other members of the team; they were on the missions in question, they wrote the reports - chances are, they knew more about what happened than he did.

I understand that the writers needed to be able to give information on the events of past seasons, especially if they were hoping to attract new viewers, but what would have been wrong with Mitchell asking?

[ReganX]

You know, I think they forgot to show the part where Jack went to every hospital room, and promised the same thing to every pilot that was injured in the fight over Antartica. But wait, if Cam was shot down, then he didn't save SG1, the other pilots who remained in the fight did...does that mean Jack promised all those pilots who also saved SG1 any spot they wanted Some how I don't think the military works that way, and the SGC would have a heck of a lot of new recruits

Since when does Jack have the authority to make that kind of offer?

The last - and, to the best of my recollection, only - time that a similar offer was made, it was made by the President.

And you're quite right that Mitchell would not have saved SG-1, the fighting continued after he was shot down so the pilots who stayed in the fight deserved the credit more than he did.

[suse]

Even if he had memorized the reports, I thought that he looked ridiculous when he was parroting his knowledge to the other members of the team; they were on the missions in question, they wrote the reports - chances are, they knew more about what happened than he did.

I understand that the writers needed to be able to give information on the events of past seasons, especially if they were hoping to attract new viewers, but what would have been wrong with Mitchell asking?

It's apparently not "leaderly" to have to ask questions of your "subordinates". Or even "co-leaders". /sarcasm <----Not at ((ReganX))

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