where did season 10 go wrong?

[Betelgeuze]

Just out of curiosity, how exactly is Adria like Jesus and Mohammed?

Adria/Jesus resemblance: Adria can be seen as a non ascendent Ori. The Ori think of themselves as gods, which would make Adria the incarnation of a god. Also the way Adria was conceived resembles the way Jesus was conceived.

Adria/Mohammed resemblance: Both Mohammed an Adria convert people by force, [mod snip - this is not the place for commentary on any RL religion, please limit discussion to Stargate].

Also Adria, like Jesus and Mohammed, claims her religion is the only true one.

[Mitchell82]

Adria/Jesus resemblance: Adria can be seen as a non ascendent Ori. The Ori think of themselves as gods, which would make Adria the incarnation of a god. Also the way Adria was conceived resembles the way Jesus was conceived.

Adria/Mohammed resemblance: Both Mohammed an Adria convert people by force, [mod snip - this is not the place for commentary on any RL religion, please limit discussion to Stargate].

Also Adria, like Jesus and Mohammed, claims her religion is the only true one.

Actually that makes some sense but Adria is much sexier!

[Maxum]

The Ori were a terrible idea. The Goa'uld were a fantastic enemy. If only one trait set them far above the Ori, it was PERSONALITY. That and the fact that they had ships rather than giant toilets...also as far as "much easier and less complicated" goes, what are the major differences between the Ori and the Goa'uld?

Goa'uld
Enforce their rule over planets and people through fear displays of their power
Destroy those who refuse to worship them.
Enslaved Jaffa armies
Masquerade as Gods
Cool ships
Cold as ice - even when he was torturing Jack to death repeatedly, you couldn't help liking Ba'al. The Goa'uld were never dull.

Ori
Enforce their rule over planets and people through fear displays of their power
Destroy those who refuse to worship them.
Enslaved human armies
Masquerade as Gods
Toilet ships
Priors have all the personality of stones, and are about as interesting and likeable as dental surgery.

The only complicated thing about the Ori is trying to find an effective method of staying awake!

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but I completely disagree. The Gou'ld were very good, and in the beginning they were scary, but as the years went on, even Jack was mocking them left and right. He didn't take them seriously anymore, so how could I? I mean, Jack certainly didn't take Baal seriously after his rescue, and Anubis was a barely-even-there villain. It's not like SG-1 personally went up against him. The only one-on-one was between Anubis and Daniel, and the writers should had expanded on that more than they did. I mean, two ancients going up against each other? That would have been sweet. Didn't happen.

The Goul'd became cliche by season 8, and I think that's why the writers did away with them. They were not a good villain anymore, imo. They had been done to death, and the writers got rid of Anubis at exactly the right time. Of course, we're still stuck with Baal. Is anyone afraid of this guy? I don't think so.

Some fans don't like the Ori because there's no physical fighting, but there's plenty of action. I think the Ori ships are cool and different. I think the Goul'd mother ships have been done to death also. I was ready for change, and a new villain.

The Ori work for me because they are a much more frightening villain than the Goul'd. You don't like them because you don't think they have any personality. Well, they are certainly not over the top like the Goul'd, but they are great villains. If the Gou'ld ever came to Earth, the planet would rise up against them because of the very obvious threat they posed. The Gou'ld were never subtle about their intentions. Now, if the Ori came to Earth, with their quiet ways, seducing, and performing miracles (bringing Vala back to life), whole nations would worship them as the second coming. That's scary because it could and/or would happen.

As a viewer watching this, if you're SG-1, how do you combat an emotional, religious, psychological connection that your entire race now has for the Ori? How do you convince your people that these Ori, who are performing wonderful miracles, are really evil incarnate? To me, that's sooo much more interesting than just ship battles in space and glowing eyes. The battle can't just be waged with violence, which SG-1 has tried to use against the Ori, but this is also a battle of wits and debates. That intrigues me too. It's different.

Don't get me wrong. I loved the Gou'ld, but it WAS time to get rid of them and move on. We did the Gou'ld and the Replicators - the fighting, the gun plays, the ship battles. The Ori are a completely different villain that CAN'T be defeated with guns and weapons. You have to destroy their ideal, and I think that makes the Ori a genius villain.

[Mitchell82]

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but I completely disagree. The Gou'ld were very good, and in the beginning they were scary, but as the years went on, even Jack was mocking them left and right. He didn't take them seriously anymore, so how could I? I mean, Jack certainly didn't take Baal seriously after his rescue, and Anubis was a barely-even-there villain. It's not like SG-1 personally went up against him. The only one-on-one was between Anubis and Daniel, and the writers should had expanded on that more than they did. I mean, two ancients going up against each other? That would have been sweet. Didn't happen.

The Goul'd became cliche by season 8, and I think that's why the writers did away with them. They were not a good villain anymore, imo. They had been done to death, and the writers got rid of Anubis at exactly the right time. Of course, we're still stuck with Baal. Is anyone afraid of this guy? I don't think so.

Some fans don't like the Ori because there's no physical fighting, but there's plenty of action. I think the Ori ships are cool and different. I think the Goul'd mother ships have been done to death also. I was ready for change, and a new villain.

The Ori work for me because they are a much more frightening villain than the Goul'd. You don't like them because you don't think they have any personality. Well, they are certainly not over the top like the Goul'd, but they are great villains. If the Gou'ld ever came to Earth, the planet would rise up against them because of the very obvious threat they posed. The Gou'ld were never subtle about their intentions. Now, if the Ori came to Earth, with their quiet ways, seducing, and performing miracles (bringing Vala back to life), whole nations would worship them as the second coming. That's scary because it could and/or would happen.

As a viewer watching this, if you're SG-1, how do you combat an emotional, religious, psychological connection that your entire race now has for the Ori? How do you convince your people that these Ori, who are performing wonderful miracles, are really evil incarnate? To me, that's sooo much more interesting than just ship battles in space and glowing eyes. The battle can't just be waged with violence, which SG-1 has tried to use against the Ori, but this is also a battle of wits and debates. That intrigues me too. It's different.

Don't get me wrong. I loved the Gou'ld, but it WAS time to get rid of them and move on. We did the Gou'ld and the Replicators - the fighting, the gun plays, the ship battles. The Ori are a completely different villain that CAN'T be defeated with guns and weapons. You have to destroy their ideal, and I think that makes the Ori a genius villain.

Wow I havent read a post this good in along time! I will Green you as soon as it lets me! I agree with you 500%! I think the ORI are a great villian and your point is spot on. How can you combat an enemy that fits through manipulation and religion?! It is truly a tough fight and IMO a great on. You took the words right out of my mouth!

[Maxum]

Wow I havent read a post this good in along time! I will Green you as soon as it lets me! I agree with you 500%! I think the ORI are a great villian and your point is spot on. How can you combat an enemy that fits through manipulation and religion?! It is truly a tough fight and IMO a great on. You took the words right out of my mouth!

Hi-five, Mitchell!!

I'm glad you like the Ori also. What makes the Ori so creepy and scary is that I could actually see them winning. It's believable. Villains who are outwardly violent and evil are easy to identify and eliminate, but it's the villains who come bearing gifts; the ones who look and appear benign that turn out to be the most dangerous of all.

Plus, I love that SG-1 is afraid again. I haven't seen that in a while. They recognize how dangerous the Ori are to the galaxy, and right now, they're losing. That makes for great drama: the battle to win.

[Amanda Eros]

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but I completely disagree. The Gou'ld were very good, and in the beginning they were scary, but as the years went on, even Jack was mocking them left and right. He didn't take them seriously anymore, so how could I? I mean, Jack certainly didn't take Baal seriously after his rescue, and Anubis was a barely-even-there villain. It's not like SG-1 personally went up against him. The only one-on-one was between Anubis and Daniel, and the writers should had expanded on that more than they did. I mean, two ancients going up against each other? That would have been sweet. Didn't happen.

I think the way Jack acted towards Baal was his way of dealing with what he went though. Baal killed him over and over again, and the best way Jack could get back at Baal was to make fun of him. Which annoyed Baal. How does Jack deal with stress and anger? With sarastical humor.

[Mandysg1]

I think the way Jack acted towards Baal was his way of dealing with what he went though. Baal killed him over and over again, and the best way Jack could get back at Baal was to make fun of him. Which annoyed Baal. How does Jack deal with stress and anger? With sarastical humor.

Very true Amanda, I totally agree with you. I think the way Jack used sarcastic humour was very effective

[Maxum]

I think the way Jack acted towards Baal was his way of dealing with what he went though. Baal killed him over and over again, and the best way Jack could get back at Baal was to make fun of him. Which annoyed Baal. How does Jack deal with stress and anger? With sarastical humor.

I don't see Jack dealing with what he went through at all. Remember when Baal first appeared in the Gateroom and Jack just strolls in with that smug smile on his face? There was no anxiety or fear or stress in his demeanor AT ALL. In fact, it completely threw me because Jack should have been at least quietly menacing, which Jack also tends to do when he's stressed and angry. He should have reacted that way, but he didn't. Jack wasn't the least bit afraid or upset at the sight of Baal. It made Baal appear more like a caricature than a true threat. Jack wasn't taking him seriously, and therefore, I couldn't, as a viewer. Heck, Baal was teaming up with Sam and Jacob, and THEY weren't intimidated by him either.

Jack's anxiety doesn't always have to be shown with sarcastic wit. It gets old after a while. That's why I LOVED Abyss because his scenes with Daniel were just pure emotion on such an honest level. I miss that Jack. He disappeared alot around Season 8.

See? Each season had their shortcomings and each season had spectacular episodes - at least for me.

[Mitchell82]

Yup for me too. Each season had it's ups and downs but not a single ep that I "hate".

[PG15]

In your opinion, perhaps. I disagree. ParadoxRealities calculated the number of lines each character had, and their average per episode which clearly indicates that the characters did not have equal roles.

http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....postcount=4404

Just a little note: Teal'c was never much of a talker, so having him at the bottom does not necessarily mean that he (along with the Big 3) was "demoted", as it were.

Not unless someone shows that this statistic is any different from that of the first 8 years.

[Mitchell82]

Just a little note: Teal'c was never much of a talker, so having him at the bottom does not necessarily mean that he (along with the Big 3) was "demoted", as it were.

Not unless someone shows that this statistic is any different from that of the first 8 years.

Very good point and IMO all the characters have equal screen time and dialouge.

[Maxum]

Yup for me too. Each season had it's ups and downs but not a single ep that I "hate".

Agree with you 100%, Mitchell.

I can't name a single episode that I hated. I mean, I don't care for Emancipation, but I still can watch it. Plus, it was the third episode (I think) of season one. I can forgive "growing pains," which is why I don't have the same opinons that others have for season 9. It, too, had growing pains. Season 10 seems to be more solid, in terms of the new characters, but I still loved season 9.

[ParadoxRealities]

What's this about shows having to phase out the old and bring in the new? It's being tossed about as if it's a well-known law of the universe.

i never got the "out with the old thing". what would you do if someone walked up to you when your were eight years old (or 10, or 20, or 60) and told you "sorry, you're not important anymore; the world's changed, you don't fit anymore, we don't need you"? the world changes a lot, as far as i recall, never really stood in most people's way.

It's a known fact that Jack makes an appearance in "The Shroud" to revive some of the old sparks between him and his team and eventually, there's still the conclusion of the ten year show to expect.

yes, a bit like what 200 was supposed to be (you know, a celebration of 200 episodes, by, you know, celebrating--or at least acknowledging the existence of--the 200 aforementioned episodes). i tired of this 'death by a thousand mortal wounds cuts' thing.

Some fans don't like the Ori because there's no physical fighting, but there's plenty of action. I think the Ori ships are cool and different. I think the Goul'd mother ships have been done to death also. I was ready for change, and a new villain.

that may be true, i can't speak for them. personally i find the ori boring because they're cliche, boring, unthreatening, and barely even there. i was ready for a change. maybe just a new Goa'uld with a new twist, but i agree that it was falling (that doesn't make it true, you see, just that i agree).

Now, if the Ori came to Earth, with their quiet ways, seducing, and performing miracles (bringing Vala back to life), whole nations would worship them as the second coming. That's scary because it could and/or would happen.

see, i always saw the old SG-1/goa'uld as a could/would happen. i felt like i could run into Jack in the grocery store, like maybe there was something under NORAD, like maybe... but not anymore. SGA[spoilers]however, i still feel like if i write the right physics proof sam could come knocking at my door, so it's not the new SG universe itself that's the problem for me. [spoilers] personally, i never found massive plagues to be either quiet nor seducing.

As a viewer watching this, if you're SG-1, how do you combat an emotional, religious, psychological connection that your entire race now has for the Ori? How do you convince your people that these Ori, who are performing wonderful miracles, are really evil incarnate? To me, that's sooo much more interesting than just ship battles in space and glowing eyes. The battle can't just be waged with violence, which SG-1 has tried to use against the Ori, but this is also a battle of wits and debates. That intrigues me too. It's different.

i haven't felt that threat yet. we're not trying to destroy their ideal. we're trying to find the superweapon (read: plot device) that will do it for us. intriguing idea, but not actually occurring.

[esoap524]

Excuse me? ""Memento Mori" (Vala's amnesia) is my favourite episode so far of season 10. It's definitely not crap. And the answer to the original question is NOWHERE. It's Skiffy's fault all the way.

It's only your favorite because it's Vala-centric, but, from a writing perspective, it's not one of the best episodes. I was looking forward to this one precisely because it was set to be Vala-centric and I love Vala, even though they've done lot to destroy the character this season (maybe it's just that I love Claudia so, whatever). I came away very disapointed, more so because I expected much. I felt the same with "Morpheus" and for the same reason--set to be Vala-centric but didn't do anything to enlighten me much.

I agree with whomever said that the standalones detracted from the imminent Ori threat. If they had added to illuminating the characters or their new relationships, it would have been ok, but they just seemed very plot and action based and didn't seem to have a lot of direction or ties to the story arc of this horrible threat from the Ori.

My thought for the best this season are "Flesh and Blood", "Counterstrike" and "The Pegasus Project". Although all have their fair share of action and plot, there seems to be more with going on with the characters and their relationships. I thought "Uninvited" was pretty good and I really enjoyed "200", even though it had nothing to do with anything plot arc related. Still, it entertained me greatly.

And I'm probably in the minority but I also enjoyed "Company of Thieves."

The worst so far: "The Quest", "Memento Mori", and "Morpheus", the latter because it was so uneven in tone and kinda put me to sleep.

You all are free to disagree with me, of course, as this is an opinion based on my own personal taste.

[Mitchell82]

It's only your favorite because it's Vala-centric, but, from a writing perspective, it's not one of the best episodes. I was looking forward to this one precisely because it was set to be Vala-centric and I love Vala, even though they've done lot to destroy the character this season (maybe it's just that I love Claudia so, whatever). I came away very disapointed, more so because I expected much. I felt the same with "Morpheus" and for the same reason--set to be Vala-centric but didn't do anything to enlighten me much.

I agree with whomever said that the standalones detracted from the imminent Ori threat. If they had added to illuminating the characters or their new relationships, it would have been ok, but they just seemed very plot and action based and didn't seem to have a lot of direction or ties to the story arc of this horrible threat from the Ori.

My thought for the best this season are "Flesh and Blood", "Counterstrike" and "The Pegasus Project". Although all have their fair share of action and plot, there seems to be more with going on with the characters and their relationships. I thought "Uninvited" was pretty good and I really enjoyed "200", even though it had nothing to do with anything plot arc related. Still, it entertained me greatly.

And I'm probably in the minority but I also enjoyed "Company of Thieves."

The worst so far: "The Quest", "Memento Mori", and "Morpheus", the latter because it was so uneven in tone and kinda put me to sleep.

You all are free to disagree with me, of course, as this is an opinion based on my own personal taste.

I may not agree with you but I do see where you are coming from.
I too enjoyed company of theieves but I also enjoyed all the episodes you didn't like including the episodes you did like. As too the standalones I know they arent scentric to the plot but they are nesesary in my opinion as all seasons have had them and I don't find that they detract form the show. But like you this ios just my opinion.