Aschen and the Ori

[Xanderic]

You know if i was faced with a choice... I would rather have had the Aschen help us against the gou'ld and make us sterile than have the Ori wipe out the entire galaxy.

[Tekin_Kashami]

You know if i was faced with a choice... I would rather have had the Aschen help us against the gou'ld and make us sterile than have the Ori wipe out the entire galaxy.

The Ori would've probably come anyway, eventually. Some explorer would eventually have stumbled on Camelot, and it just would have progressed backwards. Or, the Aschen confederation could produce a mighty fleet that went to the Ori galaxy. You're just delaying the inevitable, without the Tauri to stop them, and "laugh... even when it's innappropriate."

[tommiekins]

I never denied everything you said about the Tollan, Asgard, etc. I was arguing that there was no need to "assume" the Ori were more powerful since it was already a fact.

In the show, they have stated that ascended beings have access to infinite knowledge. So there is no need to "assume" that the Ori are more powerful since it has already been established that they are.
My point was that there was no need to talk about all that stuff about how the "Aschen, Asgard, Tollan have limited knowledge and how the Asgard have only scratched the surface of Ancient knowledge... etc" just to come to the conclusion that it is safe to "assume" that the Ori are more advanced. It was already a fact and didn't need to be "assumed" or persuaded into believing through talk about Asgard only scratching the surface of Ancient tech, etc.

I included the stuff about the asgard scratching the surface and the tollans and everything simply to back up my point. I didn't see the point of saying "the Aschen wouldn't stand a chance" without at least stating why I think that. I didn't realise talking about the Asgard would offend anyone. o.O

I was answering a question that had been asked in the thread. Which basically was "what about Aschen v. Ori". And I think you took the use of the word "assume" a bit too far, whether I say "safe to assume" or "definately" doesn't really matter, I'd made my point.

[Mitchell82]

While that was said, ascendeds don't know everything there is to know. That's been stated previously on the show. The universe is too vast to truly know everything. I wouldn't say that they don't know more than any other being we've ever encountered before (because they do), just that a complete understanding of everything is impossible.

I agree. They know of our exsistence and who we are but its doubtful that they know the location of Earth.

[PSp2gamer]

How are we even Compairing the Ori Tech to the Ancient Tech. Have any of them gone against each other? NO. The Dakara device was made for creating life, not destroying it. It doesnt really count for going against the Ori.

[unknown.entity]

How are we even Compairing the Ori Tech to the Ancient Tech?

We are comparing them on the fact that the Ori have technology created using infinite knowledge whereas the Ancient technology (we have access to) was created using finite knowledge.

Therefore it remains obvious that the Ori use technology more advanced than that of the Ancients.

[PSp2gamer]

We are comparing them on the fact that the Ori have technology created using infinite knowledge whereas the Ancient technology (we have access to) was created using finite knowledge.

Therefore it remains obvious that the Ori have more superior technology.

But we have Ancients who develop the tech and know how it works, and find weaknesses. The Ori Followers dont know anything. They just built it with plans the Ori gave them. We still havent seen them match up. Anyways, you dont have to have superior tech to win a war.

[Giantevilhead]

If the Ori have infinite knowledge, why haven't they destroyed the Ancients yet? How was Merlin able to build a weapon against ascended weapons while being descended but the Ori have no such device?

Just because the Ori claim that ascension gives them all the knowledge of the universe doesn't mean it's true. The Ori also claim that they ascend their followers but Orlin contradicts that. Oma also contradicts the Ori's assertion that ascension gives infinite knowledge.

As for the Aschen, I think they would actually align themselves with the Ori. I think it would be interesting if the Ori saved the Aschen from whatever trouble they got themselves in after dialing one of the addresses SG-1 gave them. The Aschen are advanced enough to be useful to the Ori and smart enough to know not to resist. The Aschen could become the Ori's lackeys.

[unknown.entity]

But we have Ancients who develop the tech and know how it works, and find weaknesses. The Ori Followers dont know anything. They just built it with plans the Ori gave them. We still havent seen them match up. Anyways, you dont have to have superior tech to win a war.

You raise a good point... The Ori Followers were limited to their engineering capabilities & knowledge when being instructed on how to build the Ori warships, therefore its quite possibly the Ori technology may not have been built to it's full potential. Which by the way would change completely if the Aschen somehow ended up building ships/weapons for the Ori.

[unknown.entity]

If the Ori have infinite knowledge, why haven't they destroyed the Ancients yet?

They havn't destroyed the Ascended Ancients because they don't think they can. If the Ori came to the MW galaxy, the collective Ascended Ancients (The Others) would force them to a lower plane like they did with Daniel and Anubis. They probably feel that it's better to play it safe and allow their followers to do all the work, than to risk defeat by attacking them directly on the Ascended plane.

How was Merlin able to build a weapon against ascended weapons while being descended but the Ori have no such device?

Merlin was able to build the weapon because he retained a majority of the knowledge he had access to as an ascended being. How do you know the Ori have no such device? The Ori have access to infinite knowledge. If they wanted to, they could just as easily build a similar device and it would most likely be more effective than Merlin's device. Just because you havn't seen the Ori build such a device doesn't mean they havn't, and even if they havn't, it doesn't mean they can't. The Ori probably see that building such a device would become a threat to themselves if their followers decided to turn against them.

[Giantevilhead]

They havn't destroyed the Ascended Ancients because they don't think they can. If the Ori came to the MW galaxy, the collective Ascended Ancients (The Others) would force them to a lower plane like they did with Daniel and Anubis. They probably feel that it's better to play it safe and allow their followers to do all the work, than to risk defeat by attacking them directly on the Ascended plane.

How do you know that? If the Ori have infinite knowledge, then they should be able to defeat the Ancients no matter how powerful the Ancients are. If the Ori have infinite knowledge, they could just make a button that destroys all their enemies when pressed.

Merlin was able to build the weapon because he retained a majority of the knowledge he had access to as an ascended being. How do you know the Ori have no such device? The Ori have access to infinite knowledge. If they wanted to, they could just as easily build a similar device and it would most likely be more effective than Merlin's device. Just because you havn't seen the Ori build such a device doesn't mean they havn't, and even if they havn't, it doesn't mean they can't. The Ori probably see that building such a device would become a threat to themselves if their followers decided to turn against them.

A majority of infinity is still infinity and it's impossible for Merlin to retain infinite knowledge.

If the Ori have such a device, why haven't they used it against the Ancients? If the Ori have infinite knowledge then they would have no reason to fear a betrayal since possessing infinite knowledge would mean that they know beforehand whether or not their followers will betray them.

[unknown.entity]

How do you know that? If the Ori have infinite knowledge, then they should be able to defeat the Ancients no matter how powerful the Ancients are. If the Ori have infinite knowledge, they could just make a button that destroys all their enemies when pressed.

Both sides have infinite knowledge because they are both ascended. They are on the ascended plane. The only way to attack on that plane is to cancel out the other beings, just like how Oma & Anubis did. The Ori seek the energy of their followers in order to gain enough power/energy to defeat (cancel out) the Ancients. I shouldn't have to explain all this, its already part of the storyline and has been hinted throughout season 9 & 10.

A majority of infinity is still infinity and it's impossible for Merlin to retain infinite knowledge.

Quote by Morgan Le Fay (ascended being) from episode 'Pegasus Project':

"Merlin retained all of the knowledge he had gained while he was ascended, as well as many powers. Knowledge and powers he used to create a weapon capable of wiping Ascended Beings from existence."

How about you actually research whether there is any truth behind what I say before questioning everything I say...

If the Ori have such a device, why haven't they used it against the Ancients? If the Ori have infinite knowledge then they would have no reason to fear a betrayal since possessing infinite knowledge would mean that they know beforehand whether or not their followers will betray them.

I didn't say they have such a device. But if they did, they wouldn't use it against the Ancients because it would most likely effect themselves as well (just like Morgan said).

[Xellos205]

If the Aschen could make a plant why could they not destroy one. I'm sorry but any Ori ship caught in that sock wave would be destroyed. But yes that would be a nice idea the Aschen have become the Ori followers. I have read a lot of what you people are saying. I'm don't believe for a second that Ori technoloy is better then the Ancients. The Drones could take an Ori ship out in a matter of mins. The Ancients and Ori technoloy, are very close. We just learned that about them in Counterstrike, but the Ori gain there power by follower the Ancients DO NOT. If you were to take away all there followers then the Ori would have little to no power and the Ancients could deal with them as they please. But the Ancients don't care what happen on a lower plan and they don't care if the Ori give all there Knowledge and Power to a Girl. I think there is more behind this then what has been said. We have not seen the last of this I think before the End the Ori may try and kill some Ancients.

[Giantevilhead]

Both sides have infinite knowledge because they are both ascended. They are on the ascended plane. The only way to attack on that plane is to cancel out the other beings, just like how Oma & Anubis did. The Ori seek the energy of their followers in order to gain enough power/energy to defeat (cancel out) the Ancients. I shouldn't have to explain all this, its already part of the storyline and has been hinted throughout season 9 & 10.

How do you know that it's the only way to attack the ascended plane? Oma and Anubis didn't cancel each other out, they're "fighting" each other.

Plus Daniel said this in "Abyss":

O'NEILL
So…you wanna be my Oma?

DANIEL
You could put it that way, I mean, I wouldn't, but maybe that's just me.

O'NEILL
And then what?

DANIEL
Then…then I don't know.

O'NEILL
You don't know.

DANIEL
No. No, ascension doesn't make you all-knowing. I mean, I really…don't know.

O'NEILL
If I'm catchin' the next plane of existence outta here, you gotta give me somethin'.

DANIEL
It's your journey. No one but you can choose what you become or the path you take. All I can promise you is it will be an amazing journey.

Which would at least suggest that not all ascended beings have infinite knowledge.

Quote by Morgan Le Fay (ascended being) from episode 'Pegasus Project':

"Merlin retained all of the knowledge he had gained while he was ascended, as well as many powers. Knowledge and powers he used to create a weapon capable of wiping Ascended Beings from existence."

How about you actually research whether there is any truth behind what I say before questioning everything I say...

You said this:

Merlin was able to build the weapon because he retained a majority of the knowledge he had access to as an ascended being. How do you know the Ori have no such device?

You didn't say that he retained all the knowledge. Either way it doesn't matter since if ascended beings have infinite knowledge then Merlin would have retained infinite knowledge and that's not possible.

I didn't say they have such a device. But if they did, they wouldn't use it against the Ancients because it would most likely effect themselves as well (just like Morgan said).

If they had infinite knowledge then they could make it so that the device only affects the Ancients. They could also descend, use the weapon to destroy all ascended beings, and then ascend again.

[Xellos205]

Some people are counting the Asgard out of the fight. I don't maybe will find out that the Asgard understand how to make drones but they never have because they never found an Ancient outpost. Or the fact that there mind could not understand the knowledge like Jack could. . The Ancients after all were humans at one point. The Asgard did take a repository of knowledge but the could only understand a little bit of it. If they have understood more then they would have been able to come up with the anti replicator weapon sooner then season 8.