No one "leads" SG-1

[Ltcolshepjumper]

SG1 has been an "equal opportunity" team for a while, I cant think of the last time they didn't ALL reach a decision together.

When Oneill tells Carter to do something and she doesn't agree with it(Unnatural Selection)

[ReganX]

1. he's Jack's replacement.

Landry replaced Jack as base commander. In Season Eight, Sam was in command of SG-1.

2. Carter's a woman and f'ed up though it may be, women are not allowed to be in command in the military. (i don't agree with it either, but we're not here to discuss the archaic philosophies of the military)

Sam commanded SG-1 in Season Eight. Her being a woman didn't seem to be a problem then, and I would hate to think that TPTB had so little respect for their viewers that they believed them incapable of accepting a woman as team leader.

[Oreo]

It's called bad writing.

There really should only be a 3 (wo)man team. The new guy is pointless and just have Sam run the show.

[IrishPisano]

Landry replaced Jack as base commander. In Season Eight, Sam was in command of SG-1.



Sam commanded SG-1 in Season Eight. Her being a woman didn't seem to be a problem then, and I would hate to think that TPTB had so little respect for their viewers that they believed them incapable of accepting a woman as team leader.

what i meant was that mitchell is o'neill's replacement on SG1... carter may have stepped up into the leadership role for a bit, but it was never made official.

and TPTB can have a phenomenal amount of faith in its viewers to accept a woman in command, HOWEVER, it is the US Air Force, a US military branch, ergo, a woman cannot be in command. why do you think there are no female ship captains in the Navy? none of the joint chiefs are female? yes, it's f'ed up, but that's the way it is.

as for Mitchell not being able to order around Teal'C and Daniel, they're subject to the UCMJ as are ALL civilian personnel who accompany military teams/squads/squadrons, into the field of operation, ergo they must obey the lawful orders of those appointed above them, in Teal'C and Daniel's case, its Mitchell. if they don't, they could be court martialed because they'd be in violation of the UCMJ.

[Mitchell82]

It's called bad writing.

There really should only be a 3 (wo)man team. The new guy is pointless and just have Sam run the show.

I'm a warriror YEAH! Anyway I disagree, while you have your own opinion and I respect that, I think the writing is fine and I have no predjudice to having a woman command the team, Carter never seemed to be too confident with her command ability. Carter felt at ease when Jack was commanding because of her feelings for him. Mitchell was given an "assignment" to SG-1. He wasn't aware he would be leading it and at first was uncomfortable being commander thinking Sam should have that responsibility and even offered her the position. I think Cam is perfect as leader as he reminds me of Jack, and Sam seems to feel at ease with him in command, not as tense as she was by her self, possibly because he has some of Jacks wit. I like it just the way it is.

[jckfan55]

I have to emphatically agree. This is one of the moments that stuck out in my head that inspired me to post this topic. I really like the way Cam respects Carter's leadership abilities and doesn't ever try to railroad or overshadow her.

It seems as though depending on the mission, one or the other of them takes on a bit more of the leadership. But I do like that although Mitchell may call himself "SG1 leader," Carter's leadership skills have also been highlighted. In the latest episode it seemed like they did a bit of "I'll do this and you do that, ok?"

[Nefreyu]

what i meant was that mitchell is o'neill's replacement on SG1... carter may have stepped up into the leadership role for a bit, but it was never made official.

and TPTB can have a phenomenal amount of faith in its viewers to accept a woman in command, HOWEVER, it is the US Air Force, a US military branch, ergo, a woman cannot be in command. why do you think there are no female ship captains in the Navy? none of the joint chiefs are female? yes, it's f'ed up, but that's the way it is.

as for Mitchell not being able to order around Teal'C and Daniel, they're subject to the UCMJ as are ALL civilian personnel who accompany military teams/squads/squadrons, into the field of operation, ergo they must obey the lawful orders of those appointed above them, in Teal'C and Daniel's case, its Mitchell. if they don't, they could be court martialed because they'd be in violation of the UCMJ.

Funny my Base CO was female, and my Department Head, and my Division Officer, and my LPO. Didn't you just say woman can't be in charge in the military? I should of told them that.

[Major Tyler]

Funny my Base CO was female, and my Department Head, and my Division Officer, and my LPO. Didn't you just say woman can't be in charge in the military? I should of told them that.

That's a relatively common misconception. At this point, the only restrictions on females (in the U.S. military, anyway) is that women cannot serve on submarines, and women cannot serve as front-line infantry. I think it archaic crap, but it's just the reality.

I should also point out that this isn't the topic of this thread.

[Melora]

what i meant was that mitchell is o'neill's replacement on SG1... carter may have stepped up into the leadership role for a bit, but it was never made official.

Hmm...hate to contradict you here, but Sam was made the commander of the team at the beginning of Season 8 by General O'Neill. He was busy running the SGC, so I really can't see how Cam replaced him in the command structure. Cam is not a general and he is not the head of the SGC, after all. He is (supposedly) the head of SG-1. Since the last person to hold that position was Sam Carter, that would mean that Cam was her replacement. Unless you are implying that Carter was a temporary leader in season 8 and that O'Neill and his superiors always intended to appoint someone else to that position at a later time and demote Carter back to 2IC. But there really is no proof of that on the show.

I think you might mean that BB is the replacement for RDA as the leading man. This would be accurate and I believe it is something most fans would agree on.

TPTB can have a phenomenal amount of faith in its viewers to accept a woman in command, HOWEVER, it is the US Air Force, a US military branch, ergo, a woman cannot be in command. why do you think there are no female ship captains in the Navy? none of the joint chiefs are female? yes, it's f'ed up, but that's the way it is.

Again...I think your facts are a bit off here. In the armed forces, women are allowed to hold command positions. If they weren't, there would be no female generals at all in the military. While there aren't many, there are quite a few and many of them do hold command positions. You're right about one thing, though. The US military has not been as progressive as they could be in supporting gender equality in the ranks.

I think you might be refering to the fact that women are not allowed to be assigned to combat positions in the military. This is federal law, although there are exceptions made in certain cases and there are ways to get around it. In fact, I believe that women in the Air Force are now allowed to hold combat positions if they are pilots. But I may be wrong on that. Someone please correct me if I am. There is no canon to either support or reject the assertion that SG-1 is officially designated as a combat unit. However, the fact that Sam was originally assigned to the team (and still is) seems to imply that SG-1 is not officially considered a combat unit. Therefore either Sam or Cam could be the commander of the unit, regardless of gender.



In terms of the original intent of this thread - I think you are absolutely right, Major Tyler. There is no clear leader of SG-1 and I think that's the way TPTB want to play it. The question for many fans is whether this is a good thing or a bad thing. I don't really have an opinion on that particular question as of now. But by not clearly defining who the leader is, TPTB are obviously trying to please the fans of both characters. And I'm sure they have good intentions in regards to this.

Obviously some fans are happy with this decision and that's wonderful. But I am left feeling very confused by the whole situation. And I don't like feeling confused. I think I would rather have a clear chain of command with a clear leader. But that's just me.

Oops - it seems others have already addressed this. What can I say...I'm on dial-up and it is very slow. Oh well, just adding my two cents.

[Nefreyu]

That's a relatively common misconception. At this point, the only restrictions on females (in the U.S. military, anyway) is that women cannot serve on submarines, and women cannot serve as front-line infantry. I think it archaic crap, but it's just the reality.

I should also point out that this isn't the topic of this thread.

It stays with topic he said women can't be in charge I was giving an example to back up why Sam could be in charge.

[majorsal]

Sure, but Carter is the scientist in the first place... So what if during one of the missions there's going to be the necessity to solve the scientific problem and leading the military mission at the same time?

farscapefan, i think sam's smart and experienced enough to know how to multi-task and delegate.





sally

[majorsal]

In order to differentiate this thread from the "who should lead SG-1" thread, please refrain from discussing what should happen. The purpose of this thread is to discuss what has happened, and the team dynamic that has resulted.

regarding your original post, i think you're right; the entire group is 'leading' the team. illogical in its concept, but works in fending off too much ire at the thought that a kindergartener would be leading three college students.




sally

[esoap524]

The more I see the interactions between the members of the "new" SG-1, the more I get the impression that no one is actually "in charge." They all seem to work in a mutual partnership. There are times when it seems Sam is giving orders, and then other times when Cameron seems to defer to Teal'c or Daniel. It could just be that Cam knows that they have more experience and it behooves him to listen them, but even so...

He could have chosen a newbie scientist and a couple of sergeants for SG-1 and been the undisputed top dawg, but Cam wanted to work with the best. In any case, Mitchell's name might have the official "leader" title next to it on some Air Force roster, but the moment he decided to include the original members of SG-1 on "his" team, it ceased to become "his team" and became "the team."

Does this make sense?

I agree--it does seem that way. I suspect, though, if Mitchell thought something was inappropriate or wrong, he'd have veto power. To me, it just shows that he does have respect for the intelligence of the people on the team.

I don't know anything about the military or military protocol. I do know, though, that if Mitchell were all "do what I tell you, now!" there'd be an outcry. If anything, I give Mitchell props for knowing that his people have more experience in this realm than he does. Now, if they're flying a military raid, then, yeah, he's gonna be in charge. That's his forte.

For the record, in F&B, when he takes the helm, i had the feeling that he didn't want to make Marks responsible for any missteps. If there was a screw up, it would be on mitchell's head. His idea, his mistake. So, I didn't really bat an eyelash over that.

And, again, as so many have said, he wasn't put in charge of Carter, daniel and Teal'c. He was asked to lead Sg1 and assemble a new team. he wanted the best, as you pointed out. It would have been much more gratifying to his ego to have new people he could outshine. Instead, he takes the road of I want the best and it doesn't matter if they know more than I do.

As for Sam not being in charge because she's a woman...um. No. In the story, Carter decided to put her scientific preferences to use in R&D. That seems to make sense--she is a scientist, and a brilliant one at that. She's coaxed back.

As for the writing of the show...demographically speaking, boys and girls will watch shows with male lead characters, but boys don't usually watch shows with female lead characters. I don't know if this translates into adulthood but how many female military leaders has this country had? How many female presidents?

If you ask me, it's just reflective of our culture. I'd worry more about electing a female president than I would about having Carter lead Sg1.

regarding your original post, i think you're right; the entire group is 'leading' the team. illogical in its concept, but works in fending off too much ire at the thought that a kindergartener would be leading three college students.

why is it illogical? They're not necessarily in a war where they're going hand to hand. This style of leadership is actually becoming very prevalent in many corporate cultures. I'm not saying it should become the way of the US military, but SG1 isn't your standard military unit. They're not stationed in Iraq literally fighting terrorists. They're not even stationed fighting the Ori head on. They're primarily explorers and, in this case, looking for ways to defeat the Ori by first finding a weapon and a strategy. That takes brainstorming, which they seem to be doing.

The leadership concept often changes with a new leader. Jack, to me, is more "old school" than the rest of the team. This is not meant to say that one style is good and one is bad. His style worked for him. He's older, for one, and of a different generation. Mitchell is more "generation X" and that's a completely different style. But, as I said, he's still the guy who's going to end up making the tough calls or having to take the heat if things go south under his watch.

[ShardsofGlass]

I disagree that no one is leading the team. There might not be anyone giving orders constantly, but Mitchell is clearly the leader. Aside from the fact that Landry told him he was there to lead SG-1, Mitchell's the one who gave everyone their patches and sort of forced them to decide whether or not they wanted to rejoin SG-1, just as the leader would. He's also the one who, in last week's ep, told Vala she had to stay in line. That looked very leader-ish to me, to say the least. Plus he knew exactly what Vala's status was on the team and was the one to explain it to her, which is waht the leader would do.

There might not be many places where Mitchell "orders" the others around, but if you watch closely, after someone makes a suggestion, Mitchell will nod or throw up his hand in a silent acknowledgment. Plus, he's the one who usually contacts Landry or one of the ships about the status of the mission, or asks for them to get beamed up or whatever.

There's a lot more to being a leader than giving orders like a drill sargeant. And I think it's obvious that Mitchell takes care of all those other things too.

[nccjones]

It doesnt matter if u think that a command structure is for noobs or not. It IS the Air Force. And just like any other armed force of the United States, there is a command structure for a reason. Without one there is no way to properly regulate the actions of team members.

As for the question of who is the Leader of SG-1 then technically it's Mitchell. Even tho both are Lt. Colonels, Mitchel has been givin the command.

Sam has only been a Lt. Colonel for 2 years. Therefore she shouldn't be due for a promotion anytime soon. It takes a certain amount of time before u can get promoted in the armed forces.

Who says you have to be a full bird to lead a team? Many teams were lead by Majors and Lt Col's over the years.

Also, the senior member of a group is not necessarily the leader in all instances. Usually the member with the most experience is the one they defer to. Carter could definately lead and Mitch be part of her team. Just because she's a scientist doesn't mean she can't lead. Each member of the team has a mission, and each can become the leader when need be.

Carter has definately come out the strongest the last two years and Mitchell looks like a high school kid trying to be the bully.