S10: Critique & Contemplation

[ReganX]

Don't get me wrong, I like Elizabeth, but I think the writers dug themselves in a hole making her a great negotiator but not giving her the opportunity to negotiate.

Not to mention that once they established that she was obliged to hand over control during a military situation, they were going to end up with Sheppard calling the shots on more than a few occasions as more military situations cropped up.

I wonder if there was a similar arrangement in place during her time at the SGC, that somebody else would take over in a military situation.

[Melora]

One of the main problems I always had with SGA was how TPTB chose to develop Weir as a character. I agree with nowvoyager908 in that I have always seen Elizabeth as strong and able leader right from the beginning (I like Elizabeth ). But instead of focusing on that and actively showing her as a leader and tough negotiator, they chose to either keep her in the Hammond role of seeing the team off and welcoming them back or in the role of constantly having to defend her abilities and decisions.

I also agree with others here that Rodney and Shep were allowed to have a fairly free reign to do what they wanted. But I think that has more to do with Elizabeth respecting and trusting them than it has to do with them not respecting her (just MHO). I sometimes see them as two little boys who are used to getting their way and Elizabeth as the indulgent mother that let’s them get away with a lot but knows when to put her foot down.

I think my biggest complaint is how they developed her character in the episodes dealing with the IOA or the military (or Kavanaugh) challenging her decisions and authority. After a while it seemed that the only significant role she was playing in episodes was to be the punching bag of the IOA. It also was illogical b/c why did they keep her in charge for three years if they didn’t have confidence in her abilities? It’s sort of ridiculous. I think that more than anything gave some viewers the impression that she was weak b/c she was constantly being criticized and having her decisions questioned. Add to that the fact that they rarely chose to showcase her skills as a negotiator and leader and you have a situation where the positive qualities of the character are being pushed to the background and the mistakes and flaws of the character are continuously being zeroed in on.

And that is my main fear for Sam in Season 4. I am not really worried about Shep and McKay walking all over her b/c I think that would be completely out of character for Sam. If they do that, I will find it hard to keep watching. On the other hand, if they have Sam behaving in that fashion I will take it as proof that Season 4 is actually an AU after all.

I am more worried about TPTB writing Sam in the same position as Weir faced of constantly having to defend her decisions and her abilities as as a leader. A little of this is fine but a lot of it gets old very quickly (at least for me). I’m all for characters having flaws. But they need to actively focus on their positive qualities as well in order to balance that out.

And a very feeble attempt to try and keep this on topic - TPTB also had a difficult time finding balance with character development in Seasons 9 and 10.

[suse]

One of the main problems I always had with SGA was how TPTB chose to develop Weir as a character. I agree with nowvoyager908 in that I have always seen Elizabeth as strong and able leader right from the beginning (I like Elizabeth ). But instead of focusing on that and actively showing her as a leader and tough negotiator, they chose to either keep her in the Hammond role of seeing the team off and welcoming them back or in the role of constantly having to defend her abilities and decisions.

I also agree with others here that Rodney and Shep were allowed to have a fairly free reign to do what they wanted. But I think that has more to do with Elizabeth respecting and trusting them than it has to do with them not respecting her (just MHO). I sometimes see them as two little boys who are used to getting their way and Elizabeth as the indulgent mother that let’s them get away with a lot but knows when to put her foot down.

I think my biggest complaint is how they developed her character in the episodes dealing with the IOA or the military (or Kavanaugh) challenging her decisions and authority. After a while it seemed that the only significant role she was playing in episodes was to be the punching bag of the IOA. It also was illogical b/c why did they keep her in charge for three years if they didn’t have confidence in her abilities? It’s sort of ridiculous. I think that more than anything gave some viewers the impression that she was weak b/c she was constantly being criticized and having her decisions questioned. Add to that the fact that they rarely chose to showcase her skills as a negotiator and leader and you have a situation where the positive qualities of the character are being pushed to the background and the mistakes and flaws of the character are continuously being zeroed in on.

And that is my main fear for Sam in Season 4. I am not really worried about Shep and McKay walking all over her b/c I think that would be completely out of character for Sam. If they do that, I will find it hard to keep watching. On the other hand, if they have Sam behaving in that fashion I will take it as proof that Season 4 is actually an AU after all.

I am more worried about TPTB writing Sam in the same position as Weir faced of constantly having to defend her decisions and her abilities as as a leader. A little of this is fine but a lot of it gets old very quickly (at least for me). I’m all for characters having flaws. But they need to actively focus on their positive qualities as well in order to balance that out.

And a very feeble attempt to try and keep this on topic - TPTB also had a difficult time finding balance with character development in Seasons 9 and 10.

I liked Elizabeth at first. I didn't much like her by the time the series started. Especially when they took away her ability to make tactical decisions. Though I understand as it's not her field of expertise. Still, Shep should have been ably to strongly advise, not countermand her decisions. Another decision made (imo) because the LMAO must lead. I didn't like the acting decisions. <<shrug>> The producers did so that's all that matters. I had high hopes that Atlantis would have a strong leader. (All indications were Liz would be lead of show. Surprise!!!! ) Waffles should be SGA's food of choice.

See, I see Sam as being written OOC in SG-1. No way would she have put up with Da Hewo screwing up like that. And I don't see Daniel (or Teal'c!!!) having confidence in a n00b, especially not when the *real* leader if SG-1 is there, trained and trusted as a teammate for 7 years and the leader (even if mostly unseen) for 1. But she was written that way to promote the Da Hewo Is All agenda.

suse

[Jackie]

Jackie - how did you get a picture of our top secret time machine? Did Carter get the schematics for the flux capacitor?

I have many, many, many top secret connection. Sam is still working on the revised flux capacitor. We will know when it is finished when all off season 9 and 10 will be erased.

There was plenty of garbage in seasons 9 and 10 to fuel it.

For the next few thousand years at least.

A job for Mike Rowe

[astrogeologist]

Great comments by everyone over the past day or two

there is also the issue of over developing one character and totally ignoring the rest!

Let's face it--Atlantis should be renamed to Stargate McKay.

And I couldn't agree with that more. They even put his name in episode titles - and not just one! There isn't one single SG-1 Season 1-8 episode that has the name of any of the major characters in the title. But in only three short years, McKay's name was in at least two, and his sister's name will be in a Season 4 title.

On the one hand, the episode title may not seem like much of a big deal, but when it doesn't happen for other characters, but only happens for one... it's a glaring sign of how the writers and such are apparently blind to their own single-mindedness.

[astrogeologist]

I’m all for characters having flaws. But they need to actively focus on their positive qualities as well in order to balance that out.

Perfectly stated.

I had high hopes that Atlantis would have a strong leader. (All indications were Liz would be lead of show. Surprise!!!! ) Waffles should be SGA's food of choice.

See, I see Sam as being written OOC in SG-1. No way would she have put up with Da Hewo screwing up like that. And I don't see Daniel (or Teal'c!!!) having confidence in a n00b, especially not when the *real* leader if SG-1 is there, trained and trusted as a teammate for 7 years and the leader (even if mostly unseen) for 1. But she was written that way to promote the Da Hewo Is All agenda.

suse

Exactly!

[Skydiver]

yeah, we can rail about how sam was 'abused' by coop and his hewo obsession, but really teal'c was too...and daniel a bit (although, at least to me, daniel became part of coop's hewo equation so the others were often sacrificed to facilitate his storyline)

It was like coop was so caught up in the 'if we tell them enough times they'll believe it' that he never stepped back and took a look and realized that if he'd have just bloody well SHOWN us how great cam was, we'd have believe that faster than all the time he TOLD us

[Rogue]

yeah, we can rail about how sam was 'abused' by coop and his hewo obsession, but really teal'c was too...and daniel a bit (although, at least to me, daniel became part of coop's hewo equation so the others were often sacrificed to facilitate his storyline)

It was like coop was so caught up in the 'if we tell them enough times they'll believe it' that he never stepped back and took a look and realized that if he'd have just bloody well SHOWN us how great cam was, we'd have believe that faster than all the time he TOLD us

It seemed like common sense was missing as well. This might be a sci-fi show, but it has to be somewhat believable and make sense. It seemed they got bored writing a show for this current timeline. They wanted all the neat gagets that Star Trek had. In a matter of a couple of years we went from retro fitting gliders to cranking out massive space ships with transporters. Everytime one was blown up, there was another to replace it. No big deal.

[ses110]

There is no doubt McKay is the favorite of TPTB. He gets the most screentime and storylines. IMO it hurt the show having McKay getting all the attention. IMO he is not the type of character you want leading your show.

[saberhagen83]

It seemed like common sense was missing as well. This might be a sci-fi show, but it has to be somewhat believable and make sense. It seemed they got bored writing a show for this current timeline. They wanted all the neat gagets that Star Trek had. In a matter of a couple of years we went from retro fitting gliders to cranking out massive space ships with transporters. Everytime one was blown up, there was another to replace it. No big deal.

Yes! Obviously there is some help from the Asgard but in the long run it's just the humans building the ships. It's not very belivable to just put together a ship like they have in the last few years. I kind of liked how they started out with mixing Goa'uld tech with their own, and it didn't work properly. That to me was belivable. Even with Prometheus, it was our first real ship but it still had flaws, not to mention a dodgy hyperdrive. When they started to have ships on the show (the Earthlings that is ) it wasn't used all the time, there were flaws and it wasn't constantly used for missions. In recent years it's been used too much, everytime they need help, there is a ship to beam them out of any situation. Not to mention the series finale...

There is no doubt McKay is the favorite of TPTB. He gets the most screentime and storylines. IMO it hurt the show having McKay getting all the attention. IMO he is not the type of character you want leading your show.

I really like the McKay character. But I do agree with you on this. His character has gotten to a point where the writers and producers need to step back for a minute and think about something else. They have too often forgotten that there are more than just McKay (and Sheppard) on the show. Sometimes I wonder if even Teyla or Ronon needed to get out of bed in the morning to stand around in the control room or whatever, having nothing to do anyway. This was not the case, at least for me, when Stargate SG1 was at it's best. There was always some development for every character, but even if the others wasn't in centre of attention, they were important to the storyline.

[Rogue]

There is no doubt McKay is the favorite of TPTB. He gets the most screentime and storylines. IMO it hurt the show having McKay getting all the attention. IMO he is not the type of character you want leading your show.

I like McKay in a supporting role, not as lead. His constant whinning and large ego gets on my nerves.

[ses110]

I think McKay with less screentime can be very effective. I think there is no mystery why Atalntis has struggled. You cannot have two chracters getting most of the screentime.TPTB are replacing all these Actors and are missing what is right in front of them. I could be wrong but I think TPTB are too close to DH and in turn McKay gets all the screentime. IMO it's not good for TPTB to be too close to the Actors. It makes it tough when difficult decisions have to be made.

[ses110]

IMO the more you see of McKay the less effective the character becomes. The whinning and ego will take a toll.

[jckfan55]

I really like the McKay character. But I do agree with you on this. His character has gotten to a point where the writers and producers need to step back for a minute and think about something else. They have too often forgotten that there are more than just McKay (and Sheppard) on the show. Sometimes I wonder if even Teyla or Ronon needed to get out of bed in the morning to stand around in the control room or whatever, having nothing to do anyway. This was not the case, at least for me, when Stargate SG1 was at it's best. There was always some development for every character, but even if the others wasn't in centre of attention, they were important to the storyline.

I agree w/ both highlighted points. In S9 & 10 Teal'c and Carter were in this boat a lot too. "Why am I here?"
It is ridiculous not to use 2 of your main cast members. If you're looking at what's good for the show, you use all your cast resources. And from a business perspective, you're paying them to work--give them something to do. Both shows are about teams, not one character.

Even as a Carter fan, I wouldn't have been happy with the All Carter All the Time Show. That wouldn't be SG-1.

I get the impression TPTB kind of laugh at the fans saying they like "team" episodes, b/c they don't realize what we mean by that is not all of them in the same room but with two of them standing around; but episodes where they are all working on a problem-- where they all have something significant to contribute, even if they are geographically separated some of the time. For example, going back to S1--I think of Solitudes as a team episode, even though the team is separated. Having some episodes that focus more on one character more than the others are fine, if, as you say, the others also have something to do and if those episodes are distributed across the board.

[jckfan55]

I think McKay with less screentime can be very effective. I think there is no mystery why Atalntis has struggled. You cannot have two chracters getting most of the screentime.TPTB are replacing all these Actors and are missing what is right in front of them. I could be wrong but I think TPTB are too close to DH and in turn McKay gets all the screentime. IMO it's not good for TPTB to be too close to the Actors. It makes it tough when difficult decisions have to be made.

I think they have "fun" writing his rants & so that's all they do. Just like they had "fun" with Vala & particularly her outrageous side & so forgot about writing other stuff--both for other characters and for Vala herself. There appeared to be no one saying "you know we haven't given Teal'c or Carter much to do lately." And even their new wonder boy, Cam, got kind of forgotten at times.