S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Skydiver]

unless they are the mothers of said young males that can't drag their butts out of bed to get their own games

[Jackie]

Good, solid research shows women spend 90% of all the money in the world. They are the ones who buy food, clothes, gifts, and other necessities for the family. Plus, they are usually in 'procurement' jobs in business.

Tom Peters (In Search of Excellence) talks about this a lot. He doesn't understand it either, but he says very little marketing is directed toward women, when the vast majority of it should be aimed precisely at women.

As for Season 10 aiming at a demographic? I don't know. When SG1 started, I watched with just about every single demographic there is. We had all ages, sexes, educational levels, races, languages, policital sides, etc. present and everybody liked the show.

In S9 & 10, that big group dwindled quickly down to three middle-aged women who were hoping to see a glimpse of the greatness that was SG1. If we saw a glimmer, we would tell the others and they'd watch later. So, if the target demographic was young men, TPTB missed their target.

Women do indeed do most shopping and men know it! When MGM makes a show they are aiming at a demographic that will have extra money to spend on things they license. Since women tend to budget more due to everyday expenses and older men have big toy expenses...like motorbikes, snowmobiles, (the difference between men and boys is the size and cost of their toys) MGM aims towards a demographic that will buy those action figures...young males.

What I don't understand, is if they are aiming their show at the young male, then why all the viagara/cialis commercials

Also those young males, are more likely saving up their money to buy the most expensive video games/ consols, and you know they can't wait to get it; even if it means standing in line, in the winter over night waiting for the store to open (doubt you'd see many women over 30 in those lines )

While MGM aims towards younger crowds the sci-fi channel is aiming towards a mixture. The ads also are seen on other shows, like Dr. Who and ghost plumbers.

[suse]

not just sci-fi channel but the whole genre. in some cases, sci-fi writers have been forced to use male pen names to sell their stuff...cause "everyone knows women can't write sci-fi".

That's the reason J.K. Rowling is just initials. Because boys don't want to read books by girls....

It's much better now, but only becaue the SF genre has been rewritten to include Fantasy/Paranormal as part of it. <<gag>>

<<eyeballs the list of writers/directors/producers for SG-1 and SGA.>> How many women are on that list again? <<sigh>>

suse

[Skydiver]

go to a con...with the possible exception of comic con, scifi tv genre cons are mostly female. AT3, Gatecon, they have always been 80 - 90% female

and i guarantee you that i, as a single adult female, have a LOT more disposible income than your average 25 year old male

[Jackie]

That's the reason J.K. Rowling is just initials. Because boys don't want to read books by girls....

It's much better now, but only becaue the SF genre has been rewritten to include Fantasy/Paranormal as part of it. <<gag>>

<<eyeballs the list of writers/directors/producers for SG-1 and SGA.>> How many women are on that list again? <<sigh>>

suse

I have no idea why she uses her initials. Maybe the publisher did it to attract sales.

go to a con...with the possible exception of comic con, scifi tv genre cons are mostly female. AT3, Gatecon, they have always been 80 - 90% female

and i guarantee you that i, as a single adult female, have a LOT more disposible income than your average 25 year old male

I believe it!

Many publishers are starting to take notice of the female demographic...especially since it's growing by leaps and bounds.

I was told, by a published writer, there is a few genres where the sex of the author seems to actually be a selling point.

Romance--female.
Western--male.
sci-fi--male

fantasy--both

erotic--depends on the demographic. Mainly male, unless it's lesbian.

literary--both

historical fiction--both, but leans towards male.

children--both, but leans towards female or partner teams.

fiction--both

technical--highly male

those are the ones I remember off the top of my head.

[Gregorius]

Actually Greg I find your post has some classics examples of inherent sexism that is a problem within the entertainment industry and the world population at large. And no I'm not accusing you of misogyny, you raised a couple of good points but you also demonstrated a flaw that enables sexism to persist.

Thank you. Finally a person who's willing to tell me I'm wrong and biased. Something tells me I'm enjoy reading your post, although I sincerely hope you didn't combine my "Greg parts" and the suit part as both were written with very different mindsets.

Take this classic for example - "and the sad fact that most women have trouble keeping their personal feelings out of decisions (When women in charge have a conflict with a person they tend to sabotage that person at every turn, while men are more of the "I don't like you but we have to work together" attitude). " or this one "No, you don't. But you do have less money to spend than male in an equivalent position as you spend a lot more money on make-up, shoes, clothing, etc.. than a male does."

The willingness to accept this as FACT and apply it across the board is where the sexism comes in and it is something that BOTH genders do BTW. It isn't a fact, though I can come up with personal examples to both support and contradict the supposed "fact".

I'll address both points seperately, as one is written as Greg and the other's written as a suit. The Greg part first:

Take this classic for example - "and the sad fact that most women have trouble keeping their personal feelings out of decisions (When women in charge have a conflict with a person they tend to sabotage that person at every turn, while men are more of the "I don't like you but we have to work together" attitude). "

The exceptions are covered by "most", I know it's semantics but still, it's nevertheless true. Every man and every woman I've asked about what they prefer when it comes to colleges say it: If the workspace is dominated by females there is a lot of drama, the women will be more unhappy because of the constant backstabbing and there will be a poor work atmosphere (The saying "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" exsists for a reason and somehow this tends to be very true in a women dominated environment where everyone wants to be the queen bee). If the workspace is dominated by men on the other hand people complain that's it's cold and impersonal. And notice how I'm not saying either one is right.

What most people want is a balance between the two, which most agree on is by having something close to 3 in 5 colleges being a man. In that situation there is the empathy and care brought by women negating a large portion of the cold and impersonal attitude of men while the remainder of that attitude takes care of the backstabbing.

Anyway, to address your point of my calling it a fact and applying it across the board: I might've been wrong to call it a fact, but it's a general observation I, and many others including women, made. Women are more emotional than men, and that might be induced by society or hormones, it simply is that way at the present. And while it may be sexist to say this men tend to be more rational in matters, sometimes too rational, and tend to keep their emotions in check. And again I'm not saying either one's right but there are differences in how women and men reach their decisions and what they are allowing themselves to be influences by.

And since these generalisations tend to hold for a lot of situations people, myself included, apply them across the board to have, or at least feign, an understanding of what's happening and why it's happening that way. It's not really sexism but more of an extrapolation.

or this one "No, you don't. But you do have less money to spend than male in an equivalent position as you spend a lot more money on make-up, shoes, clothing, etc.. than a male does."

I said this as a suit, not as myself, but the reasoning behind it is this:
Women cave in more to peer pressure than men and they like shopping more. Not to mention women have to spend more money on their primary groceries, unless men have to buy feminine hygiene products etc.. And while men tend to buy more expensive things once in a while to tinker with, those are merely incidental purchages. Women on the other hand, as I said before, in general like shopping a lot more than men and thus are more likely to buy more goods, thus spending more money.

If you take that into and also the general observation that men are more likely to get everything they're currently obsessing about (Men are willing to spend thousands of dollars on things like mint condition comics, cars, etc... It really takes a wife or a g/f to stop them from spending too much money), you get the impression it's easier to market the stuff for men, especially if you get their interest when they're young.

One of the basic problems is that the people in the entertainment and advertising industries have a tendency to believe their own press and come up with Truisms that may not necessarily pertain to their selected audiences.

Which is a sign that their system is broken, but that's a whole different discussion. Also, I agree with you on this.

I'd really love to see some stats on actual spending over the decades broken down by age, sex, genre related etc and see how close the perceived model is to the actual - but I've got no chance of that because I don't think anyone has done any truely comprehensive and objective stats gathering. I participate in a wide range of online surveys and occasional face to face ones and I am constantly amazed at how badly a large percentage of them are put together and are consciously or unconsciously skewed towards giving a certain result.

Same here. But the problem with that is that if it's done and the marketing droids are wrong, the suits will have to explain it to the vicious group that are shareholders. Try telling a group of people whose only motivation is to make more money that they could've made more money if you hadn't listened to the marketing droids and marketed the show to a different audience; if you're lucky you get to retain your job.

[Gregorius]

What I don't understand, is if they are aiming their show at the young male, then why all the viagara/cialis commercials

Brand name imprinting and for the occasional male with that problem. It's really about making the brand known to young men so that when they get those problems they'll go to their doctor and say "I have an erectile disfunction and I want brand X".

Also those young males, are more likely saving up their money to buy the most expensive video games/ consols, and you know they can't wait to get it; even if it means standing in line, in the winter over night waiting for the store to open (doubt you'd see many women over 30 in those lines )

As I said in an earlier post in this thread, we men are so easily obsessed with new shiny toys and the need to have it before anyone else has it so it's still exclusive and we can brag to our friends. So why market small stuff to women when you can get men foaming at the mouth at expensive toys?

Good, solid research shows women spend 90% of all the money in the world. They are the ones who buy food, clothes, gifts, and other necessities for the family. Plus, they are usually in 'procurement' jobs in business.

True that. The moment a man gets in a relationship with a woman he'll have her take care of all that stuff if they move in together because she's better at it.

Tom Peters (In Search of Excellence) talks about this a lot. He doesn't understand it either, but he says very little marketing is directed toward women, when the vast majority of it should be aimed precisely at women.

Because they can sell big expensive toys to men and men are more easily to market for. The social dynamics that run the lives of women is much more complex and thus requires more effort to market to. But when businesses do that, like Nintendo with the Wii and the DS, they instantly get a huge boast in their profits.

Women do indeed do most shopping and men know it!

Yes, we do. We want you to do it too, because it's something most of us don't really enjoy doing.

Since women tend to budget more due to everyday expenses and older men have big toy expenses...like motorbikes, snowmobiles, (the difference between men and boys is the size and cost of their toys) MGM aims towards a demographic that will buy those action figures...young males.

I'm getting that statement on a bumper sticker in the future.

Anyway, they not only aim for young males because of that. The thing is a difference in mentallity: If a man wants something he'll move mountains, if necessary, to get what he wants, because he wants it now. And if it doesn't fit his budget he'll reduce his grocery budget to ensure that he can buy it.

Women on the other hand are far more rational in that field, or at least that's my experience with it.

go to a con...with the possible exception of comic con, scifi tv genre cons are mostly female. AT3, Gatecon, they have always been 80 - 90% female

*gasps* Market that on telly, market the actors and you'll have a goldmine.

[Gregorius]

That's the reason J.K. Rowling is just initials. Because boys don't want to read books by girls....

It's because books by women are market and associated with romance novels. And if there's one thing most men don't really like it's romance novels, mostly because they makes no sense to us, just like a lot of chick flicks don't (Titanic being the prime example where most men went: That old bat's throwing that expensive thing into the water, she's insane. While most women could understand it).

[Silverwings]

There's nothing wrong with noticing differences between genders. They are different. Stereotypes are dangerous, but even they wouldn't exist without some reason behind them.

[Gregorius]

There's nothing wrong with noticing differences between genders. They are different. Stereotypes are dangerous, but even they wouldn't exist without some reason behind them.

Sadly in today's society it's very hard for a man to tell about the difference he noticed because there's every chance he'll be branded as a mysogynist and a male wanting to hold women back. Especially if he's taking about men (or women in some cases) being better at certain things.

Same goes for women, if they talk about difference they're being told they are supporting the sexist attitude of men and with their attitude are holding women back.

[Mr Prophet]

As I said in an earlier post in this thread, we men are so easily obsessed with new shiny toys and the need to have it before anyone else has it so it's still exclusive and we can brag to our friends. So why market small stuff to women when you can get men foaming at the mouth at expensive toys?

And yet you maintain that women are more subject to peer pressure?

[AGateFan]

snip...

Also those young males, are more likely saving up their money to buy the most expensive video games/ consols, and you know they can't wait to get it; even if it means standing in line, in the winter over night waiting for the store to open (doubt you'd see many women over 30 in those lines )

No, the women just go to the store the next day and pick it up (especially with the big game releases, there are always plenty).... or pre-order it online if they really think its not going to be there.

[Gregorius]

And yet you maintain that women are more subject to peer pressure?

I'll clarify myself: Men buy those shiny new toys for the sake of showing off, to show to their friends that they have the resources to get it. The same really applies to whatever men do, it's all to show off and rise in stature and power. The ads merely exploit this hunger for power.

It's different for women. They have far more pressure from their peers, they are far more forced to conform.

[Mr Prophet]

I'll clarify myself: Men buy those shiny new toys for the sake of showing off, to show to their friends that they have the resources to get it. The same really applies to whatever men do, it's all to show off and rise in stature and power. The ads merely exploit this hunger for power.

It's different for women. They have far more pressure from their peers, they are far more forced to conform.

And having to have the latest gadgets, the need to show off, isn't conforming to a social expectation? Men may exhibit differently, but they're just as subject to peer pressure as women. They call it different things - face, respect, whatever - but it's still about being accepted by your peers.

[Skydiver]

with males and their 'need to have the shiniest toys', personally? i think it all boilds down to 'mine is bigger'...just in a way they can promote in public

as a female in a mostly male field, it's a fact of life that 'boys take care of boys'. If i called in sick of flaked off to the level that my male counterpart does, i'd be in trouble.. but he's a guy thus our manager, who's also male, will jsut accept it...largely cause teh manager is also a frequent user of his sick leave.