S10: Critique & Contemplation

[suse]

Actually the whole notes from the network stuff is just another copout.

Yes, the networks (especially when a funder) do have a deal of power but so do the producers. Outside influences are present in all ventures. It's HOW the producers/writers deal with them that is important.

If you're getting BS from the network about BB&B then get some stats to present to them how it statistically kills shows; get something, ANYTHING to logically counter their arguments. Or maybe do something like write some action with a great plot and great character moments, you know cover all the bases with some good writing!!!

How about less creativeness with the excuses and more creativeness with the show?? They used to be able to do it.

WORD!

suse

[JessM]

That is appalling. Stargate wouldn't have been the success it was if it had always been written (meddled with) the way it has been in the last couple of seasons. How often have we heard about character moments getting left on the cutting room floor. I wonder how much of that was the network meddlers?

I was just going to post about this when I saw that article. I totally agree, and one of the first things that came to mind was I wonder how much influence Skiffy had on the writing the past couple of seasons.

How much should we blame Skiffy for Vaniel & the Hewo? I'd guess that not all the blame goes to them as far as Vaniel is concerned, since Coop and the boys all seem to love writing it...

[suse]

I was just going to post about this when I saw that article. I totally agree, and one of the first things that came to mind was I wonder how much influence Skiffy had on the writing the past couple of seasons.

How much should we blame Skiffy for Vaniel & the Hewo? I'd guess that not all the blame goes to them as far as Vaniel is concerned, since Coop and the boys all seem to love writing it...

Oh yeah. I certainly think skiffy had a lot to do with some storylines (Mitchell as commander of SG-1 and the emphasis on BB&B as Sky says.) What with Tripping the Rift being on at the same time I can also see them saying "Sex it up!"

And we *know* that skiffy ordered Bridge to bring back (a heavily pregnant) CB for the end of S9. Who knows if the Adria story wouuld have taken place without that directive?

But the way things were handled can more firmly be placed on the B@B. No tension between the characters. The OTT dialogue. The OOT costuming. The whole Arthurian storyline.

Most especially the decision to not infuse more new talent but overstretch who they had there already. I know money is an issue. But now the money has *really* dried up. Was it worth it? Once they really thought the show has new life and would likely be renewed? And *we* are the lemmings?

suse

[Skydiver]

i do think that skiffy is directing a lot of things. Like it's been mentioned, cam being the boss, vala front and center, etc

But while i think skiffy is calling some shots, HOW those shots are acted out does fall on the producers' shoulders.

[RealmOfX]

Oh yeah. I certainly think skiffy had a lot to do with some storylines (Mitchell as commander of SG-1 and the emphasis on BB&B as Sky says.) What with Tripping the Rift being on at the same time I can also see them saying "Sex it up!"

And we *know* that skiffy ordered Bridge to bring back (a heavily pregnant) CB for the end of S9. Who knows if the Adria story wouuld have taken place without that directive?

But the way things were handled can more firmly be placed on the B@B. No tension between the characters. The OTT dialogue. The OOT costuming. The whole Arthurian storyline.

Most especially the decision to not infuse more new talent but overstretch who they had there already. I know money is an issue. But now the money has *really* dried up. Was it work it? Once they really thought the show has new life and would likely be renewed? And we are the lemmings?

suse

I think it is real easy to blame skiffy for everything because they do have an influence but that is nothing unusual in the entertainment industry. It is, like you said, all about how it is handled and that I thoroughly blame those B@B. All the excuses in the world won't cover up the caricatures, the plot holes, the OOC writing, the throwing canon out the window.

They chose a new direction which is fair enough and not all new ideas will be accepted by everyone. However you have zero chance of a good reception if you combine a new direction with caricatures, plot holes, OOC writing and throwing canon out the window.

25 eps to cancellation says a lot and if they hadn't of had a solid fan group with a series with growing ratings behind them then I'd say it would have been less eps to cancellation.

It seems JM is lining up excuses already, that doesn't bode well for the franchise. It's possible they may break another record.

[Skydiver]

i do think he's lining the excuses up. I do think that atlantis is on notice and very possibly has a 'goal' to hit, a minimun rating average to stay on the air. and i think he's in over his head. Just cause he's written good stuff in the past does not mean that he's gonna be a great show runner. (take coop for example, dang good writer...but as show runner???? eh, not so good)

I think joe knows that -especially in the tight knit community of vancouver - if atlantis dies after his being the boss, and in the wake of stargate dying while he was one of the exec producers/writers.....mmhm, being on the creative team of two failed shows??? that can't look good on the resume.

thus, let's start lining up whose fault it is, cause you know, it CAN'T be his. Just like sg1 dying can't be coop's fault.

[JessM]

Actually the whole notes from the network stuff is just another copout.

Yes, the networks (especially when a funder) do have a deal of power but so do the producers. Outside influences are present in all ventures. It's HOW the producers/writers deal with them that is important.

If you're getting BS from the network about BB&B then get some stats to present to them how it statistically kills shows; get something, ANYTHING to logically counter their arguments. Or maybe do something like write some action with a great plot and great character moments, you know cover all the bases with some good writing!!!

How about less creativeness with the excuses and more creativeness with the show?? They used to be able to do it.

Oops, just disregard my last post... looks like you answered my question It does sound like some kind of copout. I wouldn't doubt that skiffy has some influence but it does ultimately rest with tptb.

[JessM]

Oh yeah. I certainly think skiffy had a lot to do with some storylines (Mitchell as commander of SG-1 and the emphasis on BB&B as Sky says.) What with Tripping the Rift being on at the same time I can also see them saying "Sex it up!"

And we *know* that skiffy ordered Bridge to bring back (a heavily pregnant) CB for the end of S9. Who knows if the Adria story wouuld have taken place without that directive?

But the way things were handled can more firmly be placed on the B@B. No tension between the characters. The OTT dialogue. The OOT costuming. The whole Arthurian storyline.

Most especially the decision to not infuse more new talent but overstretch who they had there already. I know money is an issue. But now the money has *really* dried up. Was it work it? Once they really thought the show has new life and would likely be renewed? And we are the lemmings?

suse

Well said. So I guess us being lemmings is projection at work?

[binkpmmc]

Actually the whole notes from the network stuff is just another copout.

Yes, the networks (especially when a funder) do have a deal of power but so do the producers. Outside influences are present in all ventures. It's HOW the producers/writers deal with them that is important.

If you're getting BS from the network about BB&B then get some stats to present to them how it statistically kills shows; get something, ANYTHING to logically counter their arguments. Or maybe do something like write some action with a great plot and great character moments, you know cover all the bases with some good writing!!!

How about less creativeness with the excuses and more creativeness with the show?? They used to be able to do it.

No green to give right now so --This is one of the best posts I have seen in awhile because of its accuracy - these guys need to stop with the easy-out excuses and grow some . . . and tell skiffy to blow while they're at it.

[suse]

No green to give right now so --This is one of the best posts I have seen in awhile because of its accuracy - these guys need to stop with the easy-out excuses and grow some . . . and tell skiffy to blow while they're at it.

A la JMS.

suse

[Skydiver]

very much like JMS

of course....the fact that jms isn't afraid to tell the network to blow is why he's not doing anything now.

I respect him for doing that. I loved B5 and i firmly believe that networks should just let the creative folks do thier jobs...that's why they WERE hired after all. Unfortunately, the money folks are the same folks that hire people to do jobs that they then tell them how to do.

Thus the money folks have a scapegoat to use when thier 'you shall do this' directive flops.

And all i can guess keeps those network folks from simply doing the shows themselves....they WANT a scapegoat. they want someone to do the 'dirty work' that they can blame if it flops and ignore if it's a success

[jckfan55]

I think it is real easy to blame skiffy for everything because they do have an influence but that is nothing unusual in the entertainment industry. It is, like you said, all about how it is handled and that I thoroughly blame those B@B. All the excuses in the world won't cover up the caricatures, the plot holes, the OOC writing, the throwing canon out the window.

They chose a new direction which is fair enough and not all new ideas will be accepted by everyone. However you have zero chance of a good reception if you combine a new direction with caricatures, plot holes, OOC writing and throwing canon out the window.

25 eps to cancellation says a lot and if they hadn't of had a solid fan group with a series with growing ratings behind them then I'd say it would have been less eps to cancellation.

It seems JM is lining up excuses already, that doesn't bode well for the franchise. It's possible they may break another record.

Excellent points. I think I may have been unfair in the past in blaming only the B@B--if JM feels the need to mention the network, they're obviously under some pressure to do things they are unhappy with. On the other hand, the Bori seem to be RCC's baby & how many times have they all enthused about Vala etc? Methinks there's some butt covering here.
How much different would things be if there wasn't such an insular group of writers/producers running things? Checks and balances gang. (jckfan gets off hobby horse)

[Skydiver]

I think they need a good beta. a script editor. someone to read them all and poke holes in them and ask 'why' and 'how come' and to keep track of how often they're beamed to safety, and how many times vala hits on daniel, and how often they're paired up sam, cam/teal'c, vaniel

Someone to be quality control. to point out the plot holes and inconsistencies that plague the show now

[ReganX]

I think they need a good beta. a script editor. someone to read them all and poke holes in them and ask 'why' and 'how come' and to keep track of how often they're beamed to safety, and how many times vala hits on daniel, and how often they're paired up sam, cam/teal'c, vaniel

Someone to be quality control. to point out the plot holes and inconsistencies that plague the show now

Maybe they should give them an allowance of "get out of trouble free due to conveniently timed beam out" cards per season (one) and once they've used that up, they have to come up with something else.

They also need a goal of equal screentime for all members of SG-1 and, as far as possible, between the different combinations of pairings.

The beta (or betas) also need the authority to send the writer back to the drawing board with an unsatisfactory. They can't do much if nobody listens to them.

[jckfan55]

Maybe they should give them an allowance of "get out of trouble free due to conveniently timed beam out" cards per season (one) and once they've used that up, they have to come up with something else.

LOL. One of the things I always liked about the early days of the show is that they didn't have all the Star Trek-y technology at their disposal. They didn't have ships and they certainly didn't have beaming technology. Sure they had their share of convenient escapes & there were the rings, but usually it took some ingenuity on their parts to get out of whatever fix they were in. I know things change--they began to learn how to use goa'uld tech & stuff-- but I have a major problem with them being able to use Asgard beaming.