S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Rogue]

But why is any of that MS's fault? He doesn't write the episodes, he doesn't direct them and decide who will go where. Those are issues for TPTB, and even if I though they got the team balance somewhat off

Spoiler:

and will never understand why they didn't give AT/Sam a good reason not to be there. That was just sloppy and caused no end of bad blood between the Sam fans and the fans of the newer characters, all unnecessary if they had handled it better.

I'd still expect us to discuss what they had or hadn't done in civil terms.

FF

I am hoping that the Atlantis show runners have more sense and don't attach Sam to McKay's hip. AT has made comments she likes working with David and they do have chemistry together. I like Sam and McKay, but please only in small doses. I don't want it to take over the show.

[Frostfox]

I am hoping that the Atlantis show runners have more sense and don't attach Sam to McKay's hip. AT has made comments she likes working with David and they do have chemistry together. I like Sam and McKay, but please only in small doses. I don't want it to take over the show.

Heavens no. That would be a waste of two good actors.

Spoiler:

I really like the idea of Replicarter turning up there, but I don't think they will go there, which is a shame.

FF

[Hubble]

But why is any of that MS's fault? He doesn't write the episodes, he doesn't direct them and decide who will go where. Those are issues for TPTB, and even if I though they got the team balance somewhat off

Spoiler:

and will never understand why they didn't give AT/Sam a good reason not to be there. That was just sloppy and caused no end of bad blood between the Sam fans and the fans of the newer characters, all unnecessary if they had handled it better.

I'd still expect us to discuss what they had or hadn't done in civil terms.

FF

Sorry, that post wasn't finished. I tried to delete it and thought I did, but apparently not. It isn't Michael's fault. I don't think anyone said that the Daniel/Vala heaviness is Michael's fault. The PTB are writing the show, not the actors.

OK.....The first 5 episodes of S9 were extremely Daniel/Vala heavy. In S10 so far, wherever Daniel is Vala is sure to follow. Sam and Teal'c go check the perimeters; Daniel and Vala stay behind together. Sam and Mitchell walk down a hall: Daniel and Vala stay together. Landry told Daniel Vala was his responsibiity; Daniel and Vala may as well still have the bracelets on since they seem to be joined at the hip (to repeat the phrase). Sam hasn't had much interaction with Daniel at all, not that much with Teal'c and precious little with Vala. She has had more with Mitchell with anyone, but not anywhere near the amount of interaction D/V have had.

Now, it would seem that MS is saying he would like more interaction with Vala like they had at the beginning of S9. It's not clear, I guess, whether he he saying he wants more of Vala/Daniel or just more of the *kind* of interaction they had at the beginning of S9, where they were being very antagonistic toward one another.

The difference is MS seems to be saying he wants more of what he already has (which in some people's minds is a substantial amount of interaction with CB) while Amanda is saying it would be nice if she could have some part of what she doesn't have or has very little of. She's not saying she wants more of Carter with Mitchell because I *suspect* she feels they have decent interaction, only that she'd like to interact with CJ, MS or CB a bit more; that it would be fun.

Yes, this whole Ori storyline is more connected to Daniel and Vala (because of his ascensions; because of of her connection to Adria, Tomin and the Ori), and I've not heard AT say she doesn't like the storyline, doesn't like D/V, thinks they are a distraction or any such thing. She's only said she'd like to have Sam have a bit more interaction with those characters she doesn't get to interact with so much.

I have no idea if MS has changed his opinion, I was merely commenting that we all change over time, I wasn't even in this fandom four years ago but I'm sure my opinions wouldn't have been static. Actors, with interviews and fans, have people who can go back four years and pull up old opinions and comments (the wayback machine is a scary but wonderful thing). I'm quite happy that, as a mere fan, no one is doing that to me.

His current quote certainly *can* be seen as him having changed his opinion. There's nothing wrong with changing one's opinion; as you said, most of us do it over time as we evolve/grow/learn. Four years ago, MS said that he didn't like S/J; thought too much emphasis was put on it; thought it was a distraction; thought it was detrimental to the team feeling of the show. Now he loves Daniel/Vala and *apparently* doesn't feel like too much emphasis is put on it, or that it is detrimental to the team feeling of the show. 4 years ago he didn't like what the writers were doing to his character, now he does. That's about it, I think, with no commentary on why he thinks what he does now. You can fill in the blanks, take it at face value or ascribe any meaning to it that you want, as can others.

I still don't see it as bashing, though. Most actors like to have center stage, relish lots of airtime with the story focusing on them. Although I'm not sure that was always true of RDA. He did admit that he had trouble remembering exact lines, so sometimes he'd just remember the essence of a scene and adlib some things or just say what he felt was closest to what he could remember. I got the impression he was more than happy at times to let MS or AT take it away and have that screen time or to let MS sink his teeth into some of those more challenging acting scenes ala "Need" or "Lifeboat, etc."

Back to S10. I've seen Quest 2 and LITS and I must say, I've enjoyed both of them. I'm looking forward to the "Shroud" and seeing Jack again.

[Frostfox]

Sorry, that post wasn't finished. I tried to delete it and thought I did, but apparently not. It isn't Michael's fault. I don't think anyone said that the Daniel/Vala heaviness is Michael's fault. The PTB are writing the show, not the actors.

Oops, I hadn't noticed you had deleted it!

OK.....The first 5 episodes of S9 were extremely Daniel/Vala heavy. In S10 so far, wherever Daniel is Vala is sure to follow. Sam and Teal'c go check the perimeters; Daniel and Vala stay behind together. Sam and Mitchell walk down a hall: Daniel and Vala stay together. Landry told Daniel Vala was his responsibiity; Daniel and Vala may as well still have the bracelets on since they seem to be joined at the hip (to repeat the phrase). Sam hasn't had much interaction with Daniel at all, not that much with Teal'c and precious little with Vala. She has had more with Mitchell with anyone, but not anywhere near the amount of interaction D/V have had.

Now, it would seem that MS is saying he would like more interaction with Vala like they had at the beginning of S9. It's not clear, I guess, whether he he saying he wants more of Vala/Daniel or just more of the *kind* of interaction they had at the beginning of S9, where they were being very antagonistic toward one another.

The difference is MS seems to be saying he wants more of what he already has (which in some people's minds is a substantial amount of interaction with CB) while Amanda is saying it would be nice if she could have some part of what she doesn't have or has very little of. She's not saying she wants more of Carter with Mitchell because I *suspect* she feels they have decent interaction, only that she'd like to interact with CJ, MS or CB a bit more; that it would be fun.

Yes, this whole Ori storyline is more connected to Daniel and Vala (because of his ascensions; because of of her connection to Adria, Tomin and the Ori), and I've not heard AT say she doesn't like the storyline, doesn't like D/V, thinks they are a distraction or any such thing. She's only said she'd like to have Sam have a bit more interaction with those characters she doesn't get to interact with so much.

Okay, I get that, I haven't scrutinized ever interview MS or AT has made over the last few months. MS wants some more of what he's already had and AT wants some interactions which we haven't seen enough of recently. Yep, fine again. Personally, I don't see that as MS having a less worthy ideology as ParadoxRealities does. Just having a differnent opinion.

So where does that make MS worthy of -

Gee you mean MS likes it when he is the near sole focus of the show with the only other character getting time being the female character whose sole purpose is to play off his character, pinning for him all the time while his character gets to be really rude back to her (and thus proving his characters manliness I guess). Gee who would have thunk it.

oh btw thats JACKSON to you.
Daniel is such a whimpy name.

When the forum rules say Respect Stargate actors and production crew members. This falls under the previous rule -- but it's important to remember that we owe the show's cast and crew at least as much respect as we owe our fellow fans. Criticizing creative decisions is fine; cutting down the people that make the show is not.

That's respect for all the actors, not all the actors except MS.

I still don't see it as bashing, though. Most actors like to have center stage, relish lots of airtime with the story focusing on them.

I don't see most of what has been posted as bashing either. But it's edging in that direction and in all honestly, could you see one of Sam's fans letting a post such as AGateFan's go un-commented on if it had been posted about AT rather than about MS?

FF

[Nightspore]

If MS and CB so absolutely love working with each other, if Sci-Fi and B@B love Daniel and Vala so much, then they should make them the stars of this 3rd spin-off series. Vaniel fans can watch them to their heart's content.

I certainly have no interest in buying any DVDs showcasing the very tiresome (IMO) interaction between these two characters.

[AGateFan]

Oops, I hadn't noticed you had deleted it!



Okay, I get that, I haven't scrutinized ever interview MS or AT has made over the last few months. MS wants some more of what he's already had and AT wants some interactions which we haven't seen enough of recently. Yep, fine again. Personally, I don't see that as MS having a less worthy ideology as ParadoxRealities does. Just having a differnent opinion.

So where does that make MS worthy of -


When the forum rules say Respect Stargate actors and production crew members. This falls under the previous rule -- but it's important to remember that we owe the show's cast and crew at least as much respect as we owe our fellow fans. Criticizing creative decisions is fine; cutting down the people that make the show is not.

That's respect for all the actors, not all the actors except MS.




I don't see most of what has been posted as bashing either. But it's edging in that direction and in all honestly, could you see one of Sam's fans letting a post such as AGateFan's go un-commented on if it had been posted about AT rather than about MS?

FF

Nothing I said was beyond the rules. What I said was what you said except you didnt like the way I worded it. Thats fine I get it, everyone gets it. Perhaps now we can start posting back on topic.

[Jackie]

I don't think they would make the 3rd series D/V centered because the series took such a huge drop in viewership when season 9 started. There just isn't enough D/V following to justify the pay requirement of two well known actors in a sci-fi genere show--all dedicated to Daniel and Vala..

If MS/CB decided to do a show together--which they could--it would have to be more main stream to justify thier pay and bring in the veiwers.

I wouldn't mind seeing them in a 1/2 hour sitcome that was far from Daniel and Vala. One of the reasons people were turned off from season 9 was becuase Daniel was so out of character compared to earlier seasons. I don't know if that was intensional or accident but it came through to the veiwers loud and clear.

I wouldn't say Vaniel is a result of Shanks wanting to make his character macho. (Shanks stated he wanted to break the mold of a sniffling, allergy infested scientist--not go all macho man). I would say the new acting is a result of the new writing and directing style. Not even what little was seen behind the scene of MS own personality would really fit the new Daniel mold. So, I don't think it's MS acting on his own personality.

Let's not forget--Shanks was directed as Daniel for years. If that direction changed it's mostly the result of the producers wanting to change the character to fit the new story arc.

The new story arc really doesn't hold water and it did take Daniel out of character and neglected all the other characters except Vala.


AT, CJ, and BB were all virtually ignored by the new story arc. MS liked the new arc becuase it featured him and that is good for his career. AT seemed to have more fun off camera with CB then on camera as Sam. Which brings me to wonder if the director was partly to blame along with the bad writing.

CJ admitted off camera he never read his lines. But there wasn't much for him to read.

I have started a new fanfic(just for fun)--using the current cast. I thought Vala could have been far better if she had more interaction with adria as a child. But Adria is so one dimensional that it I decided to do the old--daniel get's turned into a baby trick. (except it an alternate Daniel and OC) So, it would be intresting to see Vala try and juggle baby daniel, big daniel and the sgc.

[AGateFan]

Stargate has never been about ship. The J\S stuff may have been there but for most of the series it was quite easily ignored. The later years as they delved into it more is when the show started to go downhill. This is not a soap opera like Battlestar Galatica. This is not a wonderful story arc that includes a story of two soles meeting like B5. This is an action adventure\exploration show about a team of honorable characters. Well it WAS. That is what Stargate SG-1 was. They changed it and predicatbly the show died. It lasted as long as it did because the ingredients were excellent and put together excellent. Now its just bad ingredients just thrown together.

[MerRu]

I don't see most of what has been posted as bashing either. But it's edging in that direction and in all honestly, could you see one of Sam's fans letting a post such as AGateFan's go un-commented on if it had been posted about AT rather than about MS?

FF

Actually, I can see it going uncommented from this one Sam fan, me.

I didn't see it as bashing, and I don't really worry about things that supposedly could lead to bashing, here or elsewhere, but, that's only my opinion. Season's 9 and 10 of Stargate, and all the interviews around them, have caused me to lose so much respect for the people who produce the series, and the actors who appear in it regularly, including AT, that I've settled into a state of no longer much caring about Stargate. Therefore, other people's takes on things Stargate, per my analysis, are rarely worth my effort in replying.

In calculating what it's worth to spend my time doing, defending - even discussing - any part of Stargate SG1 is very, very rarely worth the effort anymore. And I used to be a passionate fan, especially a passionate Sam fan. Now, if someone were to say something that paraphrased AGF's original post about Sam - it'd be a case of "So, somebody wants to say that AT likes it when the show focuses on her character and wants other characters that provide more screentime for her character? (note: paraphrasing there) Well, my response is, say on, then: I don't give a fig one way or another about 'em saying it, and don't have any incentive to care why they think it, either." And past me it would go, uncommented. Stargate just isn't worth that much effort anymore, to me.

Sam is my favorite part of the entire Stargate production, and the whole Stargate-production-thing is now pretty thoroughly worth less than the effort involved in a lot of typing, to me. So, yeah, one of Sam's fans would have let such a conjectural post go right on by, uncommented.

MerRu - remaining in Stargate fandom only until the investsment of reading the fan-fic gets to be less than the return

[TameFarrar]

So An objective Moderator has been called in

I have read all of the posts above regarding Mr Shanks comments in the Interview and the forthcoming *opinions* of members on those comments.

I have not found anything that is anyway disrespectful to Mr Shanks as a person.

When an actor grants an interview and places his/her words/thoughts/opinions out there in the *Public Realm* they fully realize that those said words/thoughts/opinions are going to be reviewed and/or scrutinized by the Fans. Those Fans in turn will interpret them their own way and voice said opinions.

That is what I am seeing here - Fans voicing their personal opinions of what an Actor stated in a Public Realm.

I see nothing that has disparaged Mr Shanks as an individual nor disrespected him as an individual.

Please continue to NOT cross that line

comments on what any PTB/Actor places in the Public Domain is open for discussion and that includes if a member finds it upsetting, self-serving or not within the character the actor is playing. While there can be a sometimes fine line between the Actor and the character. Comments that relate to your own opinion of what the Actor has stated about his/her own character do not denote disrepect if others don't agree with your comments or don't view the Actor in that way.

Further clarification of this position can be requested from teh Moderatoring Staff via PM and we will be happy to further explain it

Thanks for your time
TameFarrar
GateWorld Moderator

[ParadoxRealities]

I still haven't seen verbatim quote of MS saying that D/V makes him act Daniel more like himself. Only paraphrase.

and if i'm wrong i will apologize. until then i'll wait/continue looking for Regan/anyone/me to find it.

I'm still not clear how MS's ideology, wanting more D/V is different from AT's wanting more S/D, S/T, S/anyone. Unless one assumes that MS's motives are always self centered and AT's motives are always altruistic?

if there was as much S/T as there was D/V in the beginning of season 9, and if it isolated Sam or Teal'c the way it does Daniel and Vala (which in all likelihood it would) then i would agree. MS is asking for a relationship that isolates his character and <self snipped to prevent a repeat of the first quoted discussion>

I have no idea if MS has changed his opinion, I was merely commenting that we all change over time, I wasn't even in this fandom four years ago but I'm sure my opinions wouldn't have been static. Actors, with interviews and fans, have people who can go back four years and pull up old opinions and comments (the wayback machine is a scary but wonderful thing). I'm quite happy that, as a mere fan, no one is doing that to me.

ok. just wanted to point out that that's not necessarily the case. it has been pointed; i'm happy.

Thank you Tame. and thanks to Sky too

[JessM]

I read that MS said in the recent TV zone interview that he wished that Daniel and Vala had more interaction with one another in season 10 like they did in the beginning of season 9.

I have to admit, that is the last thing I would want, but I know MS loves to work with CB. I feel that there is already way to much Daniel/Vala relationship stuff on the show---I can't imagine having more of it---especially of the type they had in the beginning of season 9.

For me, Daniel/Vala can't carry the show -- they have been the main relationship in the show in season 9 and the first half of season 10 and the ratings went down. The team got lost in the shuffle and this relationship has been front and center until the second half of season 10 with episodes like Line in the Sand and The Road Not Taken. Finally, in the second half we may see a bit more team and a bit more balance between all the characters---one can hope.

I read that interview too. The way I first saw it was not that he wanted more interaction with Vala period, but that he wanted more interaction the way it was in S9, meaning the type of interaction that it was (which, I'm assuming, means the constant sniping at each other). Maybe I just read it wrong, though...

I agree. This isn't supposed to be The Daniel and Vala show with Sam and Teal'c (and maybe even Mitchell) as supporting actors. It's supposed to be a team show. Seems the fact that TPTB love writing Vaniel every chance they get, coupled with the very vocal fans of Vaniel, result in that team being fragmented. It's a shame that we don't get that team feeling unless there are episodes where Daniel is absent - although I didn't see a whole lot of Vaniel for a change in The Quest Part 1. Still, I am crossing my fingers that there will be a better balance of characters in the episodes we have left (though I'm not holding my breath regarding the finale).

[LaCroix]

After seeing Quest pt. 2,

Spoiler:

I have reservations about The Shroud. Since Daniel is by all spoilers that I have read has gone darkside (Prior). And if Jack (RDA) is going to be in it (his best friend) and he talks to him about the friendship that they have had and he suddenly changes in that episode I'm going to be posting here about another homage. Xander/Willow anyone? Yellow crayon anyone?
Joss Whedon anyone?

[JessM]

I read that interview as well and was quite surprised to hear MS say that. I get that he likes working with CB and she with him, but fcol, what's fun/interesting for him isn't necessarily what's fun/interesting for the audience as a whole. The first 5 eppies in S9 were extremely Daniel/Vala heavy and even in S10, there's been far too much Vaniel for me. I couldn't have handled a S10 with Vaniel to the forefront like it was in the beginning of S9.

Totally agree with you. I'm not that much of a Vala fan, but I really enjoyed her for the most part, in Line in the Sand. I think both Daniel and Vala are much better when they're allowed to interact with other team members; when they aren't Vaniel.

I said in a previous post that I thought he only meant the type of interaction they had in early S9, but I think I read it wrong now...

For the past year/year and a half, I've gotten the idea that he loves working with CB, and more power to him. But it seemed that all the first 5 eps of S9 were just All Vaniel All the Time. For the most part, S10 so far is giving us the same thing (except for the eps in which MS was absent). The episodes haven't been centered around them, but they are highlighted quite a bit. If S10 did have these two be the main focus, I think it would have really marginalized the other characters to the point of people wondering why they're even on the show.

The part in bold cannot be said enough.

[Jackie]

After seeing Quest pt. 2,

Spoiler:

I have reservations about The Shroud. Since Daniel is by all spoilers that I have read has gone darkside (Prior). And if Jack (RDA) is going to be in it (his best friend) and he talks to him about the friendship that they have had and he suddenly changes in that episode I'm going to be posting here about another homage. Xander/Willow anyone? Yellow crayon anyone?
Joss Whedon anyone?

Don't you just love how they always "save" the day in jus 40 minutes?

Spoiler:

I do recall reading a report at the end of season 9 stating that there would be a "significant loss." I don't recall if it pertianed to SGA or SG-1. However I have heard speculation that Jack gets killed off in the ep. Oh, boy...another carson and he's no longer on the show!