S10: Critique & Contemplation

[smurf]

Also having read the longer description on Solutions for The Quest Part 1:

Spoiler:

The Parchment tells them what virtues they need (in order to access the Sangreal): prudence, wisdom, charity, kindness, and faith. So do people speculate that this is going to be all Daniel or is each person on the team supposed to represent one of those virtues? Also I wonder if the dream that Vala has leading them to the location is put in her mind by Adria or if it's some buried memory from Qetesh (sp?) similar to how Jolinar's memory led Sam and the others to the Tok'ra.

Did anyone see Joe Mallozzi's description of it in TV Zone: "It's sort of an epic tale along the lines of Dungeons and Dragons. If you ever played that or enjoy fantasy-type stories then this is the one for you."

Hmm five characters and

Spoiler:

five virtues.
I wonder if they'll meet someone along the way who will hand out a sword, a bow and arrows, a dagger, a vial of healing, and... you see, this is why you only have teams of four.

I have to say I can't think of anything worse than Daniel representing all the virtues. I've never been able to see that purity, and the old "I'm too good for ascension" was more than enough for me, thank you.

[smurf]

My biggest problem with Mitchell and the career path they gave him is that it doesn’t fit in the context of today’s military.

Jack you had a lot more wiggle room with the whole Spec Ops and fighter pilot thing because of his age. Jack’s old enough to have bounced back and forth BEFORE Special Ops Command was formed back in the 80’s military revamp. I Air Force flew a lot of missions for the CIA before towards the end ‘Nam and before AF Spec Ops Command was officially created in 1982.

Mitchell... You don’t have that type of wiggle room. To be a squadron leader it’s a pretty damned set career path. So NO I’d highly doubt Mitchell has any other training.

Why the heck they didn’t make T the new team pilot? And let Mitchell have some solid ground experience?

I think SuperCam easily outdoes Jack, because I remember reading that Jack (according to his uniform) doesn't have his wings. Jack is primarily Special Ops, he knows how to fly but hasn't put in enough flight time. I remember him always giving way to Teal'c's greater flight experience.
Mitchell, apparently, has had the magical ability to do both, in less time.

[suse]

Hmm five characters and

Spoiler:

five virtues.
I wonder if they'll meet someone along the way who will hand out a sword, a bow and arrows, a dagger, a vial of healing, and... you see, this is why you only have teams of four.

I have to say I can't think of anything worse than Daniel representing all the virtues. I've never been able to see that purity, and the old "I'm too good for ascension" was more than enough for me, thank you.

Cam is teh hewo I'm sure he'll get

Spoiler:

at least two virtues. LOL As long as one isn't prudence.

[Crow T. Robot]

wait-where have i heard that before-oh yeah-on B5 when Sinclair was trapped in the past and became Valen. Makes sense to me.

(walks off muttering to herself)

LOL! It IS a long running Sci Fi chestnut. B5 just brought it to the TV screen first.

I kind of thought it was fitting taking in to consideration it’s the ONLY Sci Fi cliché Jack hasn’t done yet. ;>

[ses110]

I've seen more conflict on Sesame Street.You wait around for something interesting to happen on this Show and you get nothing.I never watched BSG but that show shows interesting and far from dull.I see very little appeal with SG-1.

[smurf]

Cam is teh hewo I'm sure he'll get

Spoiler:

at least two virtues. LOL As long as one isn't prudence.

If we're working off Cam's amazing abilities then

Spoiler:

He'll cover four virtues and Vala will take the last. The other three will make coffee in the background.

I'm trying to marry up each of the virtues with the characters, and I'm finding it quite difficult because I can't work out which one Mitchell will get.
Maybe he will get prudence. It'll be in character to be out of character.

[ReganX]

You know?

I could have accepted Carter getting pushed aside for a man. Realistically speaking with Carter in command SG-1 would NOT be able to do any missions classified as “Combat”. They could have hit that for an excuse saying after Janet’s death the SGC were being looked at very closely and put a Colonel Mitchell in charge. Given Mitchell some solid ground combat experience. It’s the military the congressional ban on woman serving in combat still stands. And for goodness sake they could have made Sam more than a little p*ssed about it. It’s the military and Sam’s been hitting that wall her career life.

But that would have caused something realistically called “conflict” within the group.

On paper, the SGC deals with deep space radar telemetry. Only a handful of people know what they really do, so Sam's gender needn't be a barrier to her leading, regardless of the missions and she did lead for a year after Janet's death. Plus, if Sam wasn't allowed to lead combat missions, then by the same logic she wouldn't be able to take part in them at all, right?

Having Sam removed from command because of her gender would be doable storywise if, for example, Landry was established as not wanting to have a woman in command of the flagship team - although, since Landry answers to Jack (who may or may not report to Hammond) and Jack had no problem having a woman in command, I'm not sure if it would be entirely believable - but the problem would be that it would have to be portrayed as a wrong, one that (I would hope) the bulk of the audience would want to see righted, which causes problems if TPTB want Mitchell as the undisputed boss and hewo.

The storyline with him getting a CMOH for crashing a ship and deciding that he was more deserving of the coveted fourth spot on SG-1 than any other officer at the SGC or any of those undergoing training to join SG teams was bad enough. How much worse would it have been for the character of Mitchell if he was someone who got the job only because another officer, one who had been involved with the Stargate Program longer than just about any other character, was being discriminated against and then presumed to tell that officer how she could do her job? It might have been doable as far as Mitchell was concerned if they'd shown him constantly deferring to Sam's lead, but Landry would remain an unlikeable character unless he rectified the situation and restored Sam to command.

One scenario I could see as workable is that Landry, just starting in his new command, wasn't comfortable having Sam around because she was so experienced - as I said, she would have been involved with the Stargate Program longer than just about any other character, including Hammond, as well as that, she is the world's foremost expert on the stargate and would have served for eight years, including one year in command, on the flagship team - and was worried that she might wind up being seen as a power behind the throne, the person that junior officers would instinctively look to for direction.

Wanting to ensure his new command was his own, when Area 51 sent in a request (for the 1,724th time) for Sam to be transferred there, instead of refusing it as Hammond or Jack would have, he agreed. Perhaps Teal'c and Daniel decided to move on around this time. In Sam's absence, full colonel Mitchell, who had been leading SG-Pick-A-Number for several years, was given command of SG-1 and told to pick a team. Shortly after Landry sent Sam to Area 51, he realized that the SGC needed her badly - the Ori threat was a big hint - but once he brought her back, he couldn't ask full colonel Mitchell, who would have had more command experience (though less 'gate experience and less experience with the kind of trouble SG-1 tend to get into - I see SG-Pick-A-Number as one of the teams responsible for the more long-term surveys of a planet that another team would have been the first to check-out) to answer to Sam, a lieutenant coolonel, and moving him from commanding the flagship team to commanding another team could be seen as a demotion so while Landry would have wronged Sam initially by transferring her away from her command, he wouldn't be able to give her command of SG-1 again without wronging Mitchell.

[Crow T. Robot]

Love the comment about the O'Neill clan.

LOL! Thank you.

Though it would be hard to jump in to Irish mythology and ignore them taking in to account they were one of the four ruling families of Ireland. Their clan ruled the island as high king for roughly 700-800 years too. By legend the first Irish high king that was buried at Tara (That’s Ireland’s equivalent of Egypt’s Valley of the Kings which if I remember correctly actually pre-dates the pyramids) was an O’Neill.

Like I said it would be REALLY hard not to mention the Red Hand of Ireland or O’Neill clan.

Of course history research was never a big thing to them. IF it was they would have had Daniel on several occasions warn Jack to avoid saying his last name around some of those Norse cultures. Depending on when they were removed from Earth-- the Norse tribes and the Irish battled bloodily for centuries. Guess what clan led the Irish? Just guess.

It must have been the Ancient Irish knack for head hunting that set it off. The Norse really didn’t care for the practice as a culture.

[Crow T. Robot]

I think SuperCam easily outdoes Jack, because I remember reading that Jack (according to his uniform) doesn't have his wings. Jack is primarily Special Ops, he knows how to fly but hasn't put in enough flight time. I remember him always giving way to Teal'c's greater flight experience.
Mitchell, apparently, has had the magical ability to do both, in less time.

Jack doesn’t wear his AF scarlet beret either. If I remember correctly it’s the Air Force equivalent of the Army’s Green Beret. Once you’ve earned the right to wear it, it’s yours for life. We only saw Jack with it once in WoO.

I always figure it had more to do with him probably not feeling he had the right to wear it anymore.

[ReganX]

Spoiler:

The Parchment tells them what virtues they need (in order to access the Sangreal): prudence, wisdom, charity, kindness, and faith. So do people speculate that this is going to be all Daniel or is each person on the team supposed to represent one of those virtues? Also I wonder if the dream that Vala has leading them to the location is put in her mind by Adria or if it's some buried memory from Qetesh (sp?) similar to how Jolinar's memory led Sam and the others to the Tok'ra.

Did anyone see Joe Mallozzi's description of it in TV Zone: "It's sort of an epic tale along the lines of Dungeons and Dragons. If you ever played that or enjoy fantasy-type stories then this is the one for you."

Spoiler:

Virtue-wise, it's tough to match the characteristics to the characters.

Prudence - Sam and Teal'c would both qualify for this one. Mitchell definitely would not. Vala and Daniel aren't exactly prudent either.
Wisdom - Again, Sam or Teal'c. Early seasons Daniel would have been a possibility, but unless he qualifies by virtue of the Ascended knowledge stored up in the back corners of his brain, current seasons Daniel is not.
Charity - I think we can safely rule Vala out. Early seasons Daniel would have been more or less a shoe-in for this one, but now I think it'd have to be Sam, maybe Teal'c.
Kindness - Sam.
Faith - This is a toughie. I think that Sam has a lot of faith in her friends and the people she works with, so she would get my vote. Mitchell seems to have limitless faith in the ability of the designation SG-1 to shield them from the consequences of his recklessness, so maybe this one could be his.

Sam is the only one I could see coming anywhere close to covering all five, but I think we can all agree that we are unlikely to see this. I can't see any of these virtues that I would apply to Vala or, with the possible exception of Faith, to Mitchell. Daniel as he is now also doesn't strike me as possessing an abundance of any of these virtues, so having each member of the team cover one virtue doesn't seem believable.

[DEM]

re: QUEST

Spoiler:

Virtue-wise, it's tough to match the characteristics to the characters.

Maybe it'll be a Wizard of Oz kind of thing?

Spoiler:

Prudence: Mitchell
Wisdom: Teal'c
Charity: Vala
Kindness: Carter
Faith: Daniel

Eh, I'm not sold on that config either... :shrug: All I know for sure is that when I read the amazingly coincidental

Spoiler:

number of virtues

I nearly bust a gut laughing.

[Rogue]

On paper, the SGC deals with deep space radar telemetry. Only a handful of people know what they really do, so Sam's gender needn't be a barrier to her leading, regardless of the missions and she did lead for a year after Janet's death. Plus, if Sam wasn't allowed to lead combat missions, then by the same logic she wouldn't be able to take part in them at all, right?

Having Sam removed from command because of her gender would be doable storywise if, for example, Landry was established as not wanting to have a woman in command of the flagship team - although, since Landry answers to Jack (who may or may not report to Hammond) and Jack had no problem having a woman in command, I'm not sure if it would be entirely believable - but the problem would be that it would have to be portrayed as a wrong, one that (I would hope) the bulk of the audience would want to see righted, which causes problems if TPTB want Mitchell as the undisputed boss and hewo.

The storyline with him getting a CMOH for crashing a ship and deciding that he was more deserving of the coveted fourth spot on SG-1 than any other officer at the SGC or any of those undergoing training to join SG teams was bad enough. How much worse would it have been for the character of Mitchell if he was someone who got the job only because another officer, one who had been involved with the Stargate Program longer than just about any other character, was being discriminated against and then presumed to tell that officer how she could do her job? It might have been doable as far as Mitchell was concerned if they'd shown him constantly deferring to Sam's lead, but Landry would remain an unlikeable character unless he rectified the situation and restored Sam to command.

One scenario I could see as workable is that Landry, just starting in his new command, wasn't comfortable having Sam around because she was so experienced - as I said, she would have been involved with the Stargate Program longer than just about any other character, including Hammond, as well as that, she is the world's foremost expert on the stargate and would have served for eight years, including one year in command, on the flagship team - and was worried that she might wind up being seen as a power behind the throne, the person that junior officers would instinctively look to for direction.

Wanting to ensure his new command was his own, when Area 51 sent in a request (for the 1,724th time) for Sam to be transferred there, instead of refusing it as Hammond or Jack would have, he agreed. Perhaps Teal'c and Daniel decided to move on around this time. In Sam's absence, full colonel Mitchell, who had been leading SG-Pick-A-Number for several years, was given command of SG-1 and told to pick a team. Shortly after Landry sent Sam to Area 51, he realized that the SGC needed her badly - the Ori threat was a big hint - but once he brought her back, he couldn't ask full colonel Mitchell, who would have had more command experience (though less 'gate experience and less experience with the kind of trouble SG-1 tend to get into - I see SG-Pick-A-Number as one of the teams responsible for the more long-term surveys of a planet that another team would have been the first to check-out) to answer to Sam, a lieutenant coolonel, and moving him from commanding the flagship team to commanding another team could be seen as a demotion so while Landry would have wronged Sam initially by transferring her away from her command, he wouldn't be able to give her command of SG-1 again without wronging Mitchell.

I think you are giving TPTB too much credit. I don't think they put that much thought into it. TPTB wanted a male action hero as leader of SG-1. In order to move him ahead of Sam, TPTB came up with the great idea of reassignment, and with AT on maturnity leave, it just made it easier.

Cam made a big deal about getting the band back together, but the way I see it, it wasn't his band to put back together.

[ReganX]

Cam made a big deal about getting the band back together, but they way I see it, it wasn't his band to put back together.

I just wish that when the band was brought back together, they didn't have to keep the groupie.

[Mr Prophet]

Spoiler:

Five virtues?

Well, I guess you couldn't do the Hallows of the Grail, since there are only four of them: Cup, dish, sword and spear.

[Gregorius]

Spoiler:

Five virtues?

Well, I guess you couldn't do the Hallows of the Grail, since there are only four of them: Cup, dish, sword and spear.

Spoiler:

Someone's going to have to be sacrificed. It'll probably turn out to be something like "In order to get the weapon you'll have to sacrifice someone."