S10: Critique & Contemplation

[ReganX]

I find it curious that he mentions that no one has come up to him in an airport and told him that he ruined their favorite show - perhaps he has not seen the online stuff here, as well as at other forums, as I have seen dozens of posts specifically mentioning that mitchell has indeed ruined the show for some fans (myself included) and/or has made the show worse in their eyes and that mitchell takes away from the enjoyment and I have seen plenty of people who state that they actually fast forward through many of his scenes because mitchell is ruining the experience (myself included in that one as well) too bad he has not been at any of the same airprorts I have been at recently because I would certainly tell him that mitchell has ruined it for me and exactly why I think so and what I think of mitchell as a character from the poorly contrived intro and backsotry to the way in which Carter has been sandbagged to the way in which it completely and utterly defies canon and the history of the show that a useless noob with absolutely no Gate or off-world experience such as mitchell would even be ON SG1.

Remember that in magazine interviews everyone would really have to be positive about the changes and how the show is progressing.

If, hypothetically speaking, TPTB decided that Mitchell wasn't working out as a character and removed him from the show for Seasons Eleven and Twelve, we might read later that Mitchell hadn't been well received, or that the character hadn't been integrated successfully into the show or something like that but as long as they plan to keep Mitchell as part of the show, they're going to do their best to be as positive as possible.

I don't see anybody coming out and saying "maybe it would have been better if Mitchell hadn't been the leader, or if we hadn't introduced Mitchell", even if that is how they feel. I'm sure that the last thing anybody needs or wants is awkwardness or hurt feelings on the set because of something said in a magazine interview.

I would also point blank ask him (BB) why, in every single interview, he fails to mention the fact that mitchell took the leader role from Carter not from O'Neill and why he fails to address that in relation to how how character interacts with Carter - who is by far the superior leader, especially in light of the fact that she lead the team for S8. He has clearly been given tow-the-line marching orders on what he can and cannot say and ignoring history and canon is obviously one of them.

Maybe you'll get a chance at a convention. Or you could try writing, but I don't know if that'd do any good unless you were a few thousand people.

[chocdoc]

I think that the Ben Browder interview doesn't say much about anything (except that he liked working with Diamond Reed). And it makes sense that he would be more comfortable in his role after a year. I don't know what that really means--I don't know if it means that Mitchell is now more comfortable using a more egalitarian style of leadership with this elite team--therefore Mitchell more clearly recognizes he can't just do what he wants, and also realizes he can't really "lead" Carter, Teal'c and Daniel? He is he same rank as Carter, and Teal'c and Daniel are civilians, and all three are legendary, as he put it in another interview. Who knows?

I don't put any responsibility on BB, however, in how the show is written. I wished he would address the Carter leadership issue straight on, but my guess is, he was told not to do so. I can't blame him for abiding by his bosses' wishes. And I agree that NO ONE will mention Carter as leader of SG-1 in season 8. The media never pitched BB's role in that way---it was always BB taking over RDA's role. One white American male replacing another.

I have no idea if TPTB anticipated the strong reaction against Carter losing sole command. I think JM was a bit surprised really, and then tried to backtrack, talking about co-leadership. I think they thought fans would blindly accept or not even notice that Mitchell steps in to take Carter's former role. But a lot of fans did notice because she was the leader in season 8 --she does have 8 years of off-world experience, she is a Lt. Col. in the Air Force, and she was leader for 1 year. But TPTB will not mention Carter as leader--they thought season 8 would be the last, so why not have Carter be leader for that year while RDA was still around. Then, once renewed, they had to backtrack. Too bad, because I think the ratings for season 9 would have done far better if Mitchell was a Major.

The actors I'm sure are told what to say and what they shouldn't say. BB was probably told to never mention specifically anything about Carter's leadership.

[Albion]

I, too, have nothing against BB (or CB for that matter). Both appear to be doing the job they were contracted for and really this interview doesn't strike me as being anything more or less than the usual fluff and puff piece that comes out just before a new season. Deep thought it ain't and I wouldn't expect it to be. No more than I'd expect an ad for the new Nissan car to include the strapline 'Hey, it sucks, but we're hoping you don't notice!'. It's an ad pure and simple. So of course it's going to put a positive spin on everything and BB is going to tell us just how much gosh darned FUN he's having. Nauseating though it is to read, it's what he's being paid for.

I was mighty amused by the airport line though. ROTFL! Perhaps someone needs to send him the urls of the antis threads. Re-educate the poor boy into some form of reality. But I'm also damn sure that TPTB already know how we feel - they just don't care.

Albion

[LaCroix]

Originally Posted by Albion I was mighty amused by the airport line though. ROTFL! Perhaps someone needs to send him the urls of the antis threads. Re-educate the poor boy into some form of reality. But I'm also damn sure that TPTB already know how we feel - they just don't care.

Now I was going to say yes to the sending him the anti threads from here and other fourms. But TPTB will look at them and say don't pay attention to them, your doing a great job.

And no they don't care how we feel, we're not important. The ones that are important are those who have a Neilsen Box attached to their television. Time will tell on that one too.

[binkpmmc]

And no they don't care how we feel, we're not important. The ones that are important are those who have a Neilsen Box attached to their television. Time will tell on that one too.

You see here is the issue I have with automatically discounting "us" - don't discount people on the forums just because they are on the forums - my TV is NEVER tuned to the sci fi channel on Friday nights - I get a tape from a friend which allows me to watch or not watch and fast forward through the crud most of which is mitchell at this point - (and it is rarely, if ever, any other night of the week either for the crapola they serve up all the time) . . . .

[EmmaPeel]

Now I was going to say yes to the sending him the anti threads from here and other fourms. But TPTB will look at them and say don't pay attention to them, your doing a great job.

And no they don't care how we feel, we're not important. The ones that are important are those who have a Neilsen Box attached to their television. Time will tell on that one too.

True, they do not care. They hit the reset button in S9, brought in some new actors/characters, rewrote or ignored canon to suit their new direction, created a new big bad enemy and had the remaining big 3 characters behaving at times like they'd never behave. It is for all intents and purposes a new show, just one with the same name and a some of the same actors.

[LaCroix]

Originally Posted by chocdoc <snip> One white American male replacing another.

I have to say this has bothered me too. Where they could have been innovative and cast an African American, Asian Ameircan, Native American,... etc. They went with the status quo and cast a white male as the lead.

Another lost opportuity maybe?

[Rogue]

Who remembers Season 8????????

General O'Neill - commander of the SGC
Lt Colonel Carter - commander of SG-1


It really irks me when we get posts that ignore those facts.

"there is no way they would have let AT/Sam become leader of SG-1" - she already WAS the leader FCOL.

"Ben was brought in to take over the role that was vacated by RDA" - did I miss something? It's General Mitchell is it?

Some respects he is right. As an actor, he was brought in to fill the leading male role. RDA was the leading male no matter what position his character had. But I think its another way for them to rewrite history. Lets just ignore Sam was ever in charge. If we say it enough times the old fans will forget and the new fans will never know.

But that no way erases the fact they demoted Sam back to second in command to put a inexperienced male in charge. They broke up the team for the sole purpose of rebuilding it with Mitchell in charge.

As for him not realizing how unpopular his character is, a friend of mine said he would have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to know.

[Nightspore]

I have to say this has bothered me too. Where they could have been innovative and cast an African American, Asian Ameircan, Native American,... etc. They went with the status quo and cast a white male as the lead.

Another lost opportuity maybe?

Lost opportunity for whom? I've been a fan of Stargate since the first season and I can't think of one time when they've been innovative. Innovation, taking a chance, cutting edge stuff, etc. is not their forte. They've always played it safe and they've been on the air for 9, going on 10 years.

Why would they change the formula now? To get reviews from critics praising them as daring, creative and edgy? Babylon 5, BSG or Farscape they never were and never will be. Stargate is what it is – A lighthearted Sci-Fi adventure series with both comedic and dramatic elements. That's how the PTB have always said they see it.

[MediaSavant]

I personally don't think of Ben in terms of whether I respect him or not; he's an actor doing a job (probably glad to have a steady gig after FS ended) and I don't think he owes the fans anything in terms of addressing the faults of the character, why some fans don't like him, etc. Certainly not after having been there only 1 year. If the person doing the interviews actually said to him, "A certain percentage of fans are not happy with the Mitchell character and feel resentment that Mitchell is leader of SG-1 when he has less experience than Sam Carter," then I would expect him to reply in some way. But I've not seen that question posed to him yet.

Very good points. Any quotes in the article are the results of questions being posed. I wouldn't go so far as assuming that the actors are aware of every word being discussed about them. They work long hours. They have lives and families that are probably more important to them than searching the internet to see what bad things are being said about them.

I haven't seen those questions posed to any of the actors, producers, or writers. Unless I missed something.

Has anyone else seen any interview where the leadership issue was really discussed?

While on that topic, is anyone here going to Comic-con to challenge the PTB on this themselves?

Here's the panel schedule for Saturday, July 22nd:

2:00-3:00 SCI FI: Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Atlantis— Diving into its tenth season, Stargate SG-1 has made history by becoming the longest-running sci-fi drama in U.S. television history. The show follows General Hank Landry (Beau Bridges) and his team as they travel through the Stargate—an ancient portal allowing instantaneous travel to distant galaxies—to explore the uncharted regions of the universe and save the Earth from destruction. Panelists for SG-1 include Christopher Judge (Teal’c) and additional cast members, plus executive producers/writers Joe Mallozzi and Paul Mullie, and Nora O’Brien, VP original programming, SCI FI.

[Uber]

I'll bite. What is TPKTS? "The Powers.........?"

I'll give it a go. How about "The Powers (or People) who Killed The Show." It's just a guess though.

I don't think the PTB or Ben thinks of Mitchell as taking the lead role/leadership from Carter. Technically so, perhaps in terms of the storyline. But in terms of the actual show, Ben was brought in to take over the role that was vacated by RDA - a white, male, hunky (depending on one's view) leader of SG-1. That it seems, is all that concerned them, not whether Mitchell was more qualified than Sam, less qualified, etc. The sad reality is that there is no way they would have let AT/Sam become leader of SG-1...Ben/Mitchell has to be the star, according to their mentality. I don't think that's something Ben could answer fully or even logically. It's just "show business and suits" mentality and has everything to do with the PTB and nothing at all to do with Ben, IMO.

Ben can't help that some people...read SUITS...are stuck in the dark ages. We did just fine with Carter as the CO. Further, there are lots of shows these days where women are in charge without devolving into a feminist rant and the shows do just fine. Amanda has the ability to allow Sam to be commanding without being "witchy" (with a B) and it's a shame they didn't allow her character to continue in her most logical story arc.

And then they make idiotic statements that they don't know what to do with her. Imagine that.

I personally don't think of Ben in terms of whether I respect him or not; he's an actor doing a job (probably glad to have a steady gig after FS ended) and I don't think he owes the fans anything in terms of addressing the faults of the character, why some fans don't like him, etc. Certainly not after having been there only 1 year. If the person doing the interviews actually said to him, "A certain percentage of fans are not happy with the Mitchell character and feel resentment that Mitchell is leader of SG-1 when he has less experience than Sam Carter," then I would expect him to reply in some way. But I've not seen that question posed to him yet.

I guess I'm with Hubble. I don't want my dislike of Mitchell to turn into dislike for the actor. I detest how some anti-Sam fans let their dislike of the character bleed over into their dislike of AT based on how they interpret some things she says in interviews. Not fair to AT, not fair to BB, IMO.

But that's just me.

Agree on all counts.

I don't dislike Ben. I love him in fact. I really enjoyed him as Crichton although I'll agree with someone who suggested that perhaps he is a one-trick pony. But he's just an actor. He seems to be a nice guy and it's not his fault what TPTB do with him.

He probably is not allowed to address some touchy issues in articles and is probably told to forward the show's agenda. This is of course supposition on my part.

Personally? This is what I'd love to see for Mitchell. I want it to turn out that he is a politically appointed plant like General Bauer was. I want him to have been put there to spy on the SGC and Landry. I want there to be an edge to him that explains his being there and in charge beyond the horrendously contrived hesavedSG-1inAntarcticaandgetswhateverhewants/Carterhappenedtoleavethepreviousweek story.

[ReganX]

Personally? This is what I'd love to see for Mitchell. I want it to turn out that he is a politically appointed plant like General Bauer was. I want him to have been put there to spy on the SGC and Landry. I want there to be an edge to him that explains his being there and in charge beyond the horrendously contrived hesavedSG-1inAntarcticaandgetswhateverhewants/Carterhappenedtoleavethepreviousweek story.

Blame Lieutenant General Bartholemew Aloysius Beauregard Magwitch ('Babs' for short).

Mitchell was to be the thin end of the wedge. If it weren't for the situation with the Ori, Magwitch would have maneuvered his own pawn into Landry's position by now and he and his people would gradually be taking control of the SGC and using it to colonize other planets and get their paws on every offworld resource they could.

SG-1 had to be gotten rid of because Magwitch knew that they would object to the new direction and that they had enough influence to be heard – do you think that Sam’s transfer, or the granting of Daniel’s request to join the Atlantis expedition were coincidences?

Magwitch pulled every string he could get his hands on to get Mitchell into command of SG-1 and to keep him there, and poor, silly Mitchell doesn’t even know it – he thinks that he was offered his choice of position because everybody was so impressed with the way he got shot down over Antarctica.

[DEM]

Very good points. Any quotes in the article are the results of questions being posed. ... I haven't seen those questions posed to any of the actors, producers, or writers. Unless I missed something. Has anyone else seen any interview where the leadership issue was really discussed?

I started this post yesterday and then decided not to post it. I suppose I should have done.

Here's the thing (for me): First, we can't know everything that an interviewer asked because these interviews are not published as verbatim and complete transcripts. Secondly, and more importantly, whether or not someone asked BB a point-blank question that included the words "Carter" and "CO" | "leader" is irrelevant. The fact remains that BB has been giving long, detailed answers about:

1. getting into the groove with a cast that's been around for many years,
2. Mitchell finding his place in the SGC and/or on SG-1, and
3. Mitchell working out his leadership style on a team of seasoned veterans and recognised heroes.

To me, all of those issues are in the same category with "Mitchell commanding the former CO of the team". IOW, in the context of all of his other remarks, that latter omission is a glaring one. YMMV.

[keshou]

Has anyone else seen any interview where the leadership issue was really discussed?

I thought I remembered something in the Gateworld interview with Ben (done after filming for S9 finished up)

http://www.gateworld.net/articles/in...rowder02.shtml

Here's the relevant bit....

GW: A lot of people are upset that Sam isn't commanding the team. We have this new guy coming in. Yeah, he was in "Lost City," but we never really saw him. And now here he is commanding the team.

BB: Well, you know, there's two things about that. One is we're back to the question of fandom and being sensitive to the desires and needs of your fan base. There's nothing I can do about that. But there's another thing which actually has to do with a certain sense of reality, is that the military doesn't necessarily operate that way. New leaders are brought in routinely into units from one place to the next. The guy who is commanding the Thunderbirds, when I arrived there, had not been commanding the Thunderbirds before. He was brought in to command the Thunderbirds. And this is what the military does. They bring people in to these positions. This is the way things lay out.

And there's also a practical element to shooting in that Amanda just had a baby. She wasn't available for the first six episodes. So creatively, as you're juggling these questions, you're not going to be able to make a decision which is going to make everybody happy. So you make the decision that makes the most sense for the storyline that you're telling. You can never make everybody happy all the time.

*******************************************************

I get the impression Ben doesn't spend a lot of time angsting over stuff the fans say on the internet.

I also agree with Nightspore that TPTB don't consider Mitchell as taking away Sam's leadership of the team as much as becoming the lead character on the show. In that sense he IS taking Jack's place.

And frankly, when I think of Sam in S8, I think of the neat RepliCarter storyline, the lovely scenes with Jacob and the whole Pete thing. Not Sam, LEADER of SG-1. I always wanted to see an episode where Sam made SG-1 HER team. Having to rein Daniel and Teal'c in, etc. The bonding of those three characters in a new way. We got "Zero Hour" for Jack but no comparable episode for Sam.

Instead SG-1 in S8 still felt very much like "Jack's team" with Sam being allowed to give a few orders and hand signals in the field. I know that's not the way a lot of you saw it but that's how it seemed to me. I remember reading an interview early in S8 where someone asked one of TPTB about Sam leading the team and I think they laughed and said (paraphrasing) ... "well Sam really doesn't have anyone to lead". Meaning - I think - that Teal'c and Daniel were pretty much equals and non-military at that. Well the writers, imo, conveyed that on the screen.

I expected TPTB to bring in a new lead for S9 - especially in view of AT's absence for at least 5 episodes and perhaps a reduced presence in a couple of others. Daniel and Teal'c - as much as I love them - aren't lead characters imo. I thought it might be Col.Dixon (Adam Baldwin) which would have been a good choice in my book. He'd already estalished himself in Heroes and imo had the leadership, experience and "field presence" of O'Neill.

But I was thrilled when they announced Ben was joining the cast - I adored Ben in Farscape. I was expecting to love Mitchell and it's been disheartening that I just haven't fallen in love with him. Don't dislike him - although he's been a bit of a goofball at times - but Mitchell's not making my list (so far) of "best scifi characters".

I think Ben is doing his job the best he can. He's a great guy who gives everything he has when he's on the set by all accounts. I don't think they've handed him nearly as interesting a character as he had on Farscape. And this dithering over the whole "leadership" thing hasn't helped.

I'm happy to hear that Ben sounds positive about S10 in this interview - not that I'd expect otherwise in a publicity piece for the show - but he sounds pretty comfortable with the way the S10 cast is coming together. More comfortable than in his interviews last year. So does AT for that matter.

Comic Con could be interesting - I'd love to hear some really meaty questions thrown at Joe or Paul.

[DEM]

Woohoo! Welcome to the Anti-Season 10 thread for complaints and misgivings!

I remember reading an interview early in S8 where someone asked one of TPTB about Sam leading the team and I think they laughed and said (paraphrasing) ... "well Sam really doesn't have anyone to lead". Meaning - I think - that Teal'c and Daniel were pretty much equals and non-military at that.

I see. So when O'Neill gave orders to SG-1 he was giving them solely to Carter? I've noticed this trend on the boards to re-conceptualise SG-1 post-S7 as something intrinsically different than (to) SG-1 of S1-6 (i.e., a USAF operation). Although I agree that S8 suffered from the lack of Carter as leader stories, at least now I know that the 'Carter didn't actually lead, per se' mythos was definitely and wilfully constructed by the writers...

... the same ones I come to this thread to complain about.