S10: Critique & Contemplation

[smurf]

About the new spoilers.

Spoiler:

So they are looking for the Holy Grail? Talk about desperate, now I have to deal with modern religious stuff in the show? No thank you. Also, if they wanted to find the Holy Grail, all they have to do is read The Da Vinci Code, or wait for the movie in a coup;e weeks!

And as we gently slide deeper into bog-standard sci-fi crud....

I remember a time when it felt like they actually researched ideas (even if was only as far as www.pantheon.org). Ahh, those were the days.
Oh, and what happened to the SG-1 exploration/first contact team?


On the film/series 3 combo:
I said this in the news thread. It looks to me like this is an MGM baby rather than a RCC/BW idea, and in basing it on the last 10 years of the show I don't think we're looking at a SG-1 film, more likely they'll be cherry picking some of the more interesting ideas.
If they're going to dovetail a series out of it they're going to need new characters to push it forward, so I wouldn't expect SG-1 to be the main focus of the film. I think it's going to be a semi-sequel to the original film.

Mind you, it also sounds like 200th episode pimping.

[kazzyk]

I don't believe that they have the fan base to do a grand motion picture either. They thought that Serenity was going to do well in the box office, and it didn't. It did better in the DVD sales. Another thing is that movie tickets are mad expensive. To go to the local Lowells near my school it's about $10 a ticket. So if someone like me wanted to go with a group of friends, they would likely talk me out of it because they wouldn't want to waist their money seeing a Scifi flick that they have little or no interest in. Then I personally wouldn't want to go to the movies by myself. I rather wait until it is on DVD, like I did with Serenity.

Then there is that stigma with the average movie goer. "This film is based off a TV show, eh... I don't want to be lost, so I'm not going to go." At least with the original movie it was a totally brand new concept, plus there was a lot of really cool Ancient Egyptian connections. That was one of the only movies I saw with my parents that year, and I remember just being in awe and wanting to research everything I could about Ancient Egypt. Now, if they put it in the movies it's basically space battles and super bad guys. There is the Arthurian connection, but that has been pretty weak so far. But it's nothing new, nothing spectactular that one couldn't just get from an average scifi space flick.

The only way I can see it doing well is if they go back to the beginning. Stargate: Ancient Alliance, where the movie and then show takes place at the height of the Ancient Domination of the Milkyway. Their dealings with the other races, possible genocide's, grand technology, and those within the Ancient Race who create rifts and betray their own people to do their own experimentation, creating the plague that whips most of them out.

Though I do have a new theory about the whole Ancient Alteran thing:

Spoiler:

What if the Alterans seeded the milkyway, started their terriforming process, then moved on. The Ancients that we know of were one of their many second evolutions. They learned from the technology left behind by the Alterans, and got in over their heads at certain points. That could explain why they needed to create a fountain of youth machine when some of them should have been able to heal with their hands. That would also explain why the Asgard said that the creators of the stargates have already moved on. Then you have the Atlantians, who were the few that survived, they went to Pegasus, that was already terriformed and seeds had been planted by the Alterans. They could have come to dominate over the people there keeping them at the same level of technology as the Orii did with their followers. Hence why there weren't more allies to fight the Wraith. This would also give the writers a cheap and easy way of bringing the Aterans back to kick the Orii's bums if they so choose to come and check up on the progress of their creations.

By the time they get done totally messing up this once popular show--the so called "we can go on forever" fanchise thing will be dead.

[Skydiver]

theoretically anything can go on forever...but if they turn off all the viewers and thier ratings fall, the profit margin won't be there and they'll get canned

[Strix varia]

Spoiler:

Uggh! That's where the Arthurian movies get boring. Haven't they learned anything from the legends of Camelot? All the knights split up and go off in search of the Holy Grail while the new world they had sought to create crumbles back home.

There is something so poetic about that, isn't there?

[Mr Prophet]

Spoiler:

Uggh! That's where the Arthurian movies get boring. Haven't they learned anything from the legends of Camelot? All the knights split up and go off in search of the Holy Grail while the new world they had sought to create crumbles back home.

That's because the movies try to conflate two entirely separate romances: The Grail quest and the fall of Camelot. This being the case, it works for Guinevere to get it together with Lancelot when she's left at home while the quest is on (despite the fact that Arthur stayed in Camelot and Lancelot quested for the Grail, although he failed because of his previous romantic misadventures).

In fact, the Grail romance uses Camelot as no more than a backdrop. It is the Grail Knight (Gawain, Parzifal, or Galahad, depending on your period) who is important and the Wasteland around the castle of Corbenic that must be healed; Camelot is at best a staging ground, Arthur a distant sponsor. Parzifal hardly even goes to Camelot after his first visit, just rides about being knightly and clobbers the occasional knight of the Round Table in passing during fits of amnesia. The rest of the court stays home and suffers little worse than the occasional amnesiac clobbering.

Now, what's less weathered and rather more interesting, especially if you're playing around with glowing/flaming beings with awesome power who occupy a different plain of existence and are engaged in an ongoing cold war in which the souls of mortals are but pawns, is the association of the Grail with the Lapis ex Coelis, the green gemstone which fell from the crown of Lucifer during his fall.

[Rogue]

About the new spoilers.

Spoiler:

So they are looking for the Holy Grail? Talk about desperate, now I have to deal with modern religious stuff in the show? No thank you. Also, if they wanted to find the Holy Grail, all they have to do is read The Da Vinci Code, or wait for the movie in a coup;e weeks!

This show was once about exploring and discovering different cultures. Yeah their standing order was find superior weapons to fight the enemy, but it wasn't the main storyline. How many

Spoiler:

medieval villages and black knight fights will we have to endure before they finally find the Holy Grail?

[Skydiver]

This show was once about exploring and discovering different cultures. Yeah their standing order was find superior weapons to fight the enemy, but it wasn't the main storyline. How many

Spoiler:

medieval villages and black knight fights will we have to endure before they finally find the Holy Grail?

enough to fill most of the episode so that they can keep reusing that 'medieval village' set they built

pay attention, all the village scenes take place on the same set, and i'm sure we'll get to see every possible angle

[Simhavaktra]

enough to fill most of the episode so that they can keep reusing that 'medieval village' set they built

pay attention, all the village scenes take place on the same set, and i'm sure we'll get to see every possible angle

And would someone please explain the medieval economy to these folks? Harlot-haunted taverns are large, open, and equipped with sturdy, stylistc furniture. Nobody needs the well-built space of the Merlin Memorial library's non-booby-trapped rooms. Growing children run around in fancy clothes and don't worry about getting them dirty. The streets are a sea of mud, but nobody's dirty. Vala's dribble-sheep of a husband is a socially outcast cripple with a huge, multi-storey, nicely appointed house. Nobody seems to do any farming to feed these people, or crafting to make all the implements, weapons, embroidered clothes, finely crafted furniture, beautifully bound and printed books, jewels, spacious architecturally detailed buildings, etc. that they have and use so carelessly. Somebody apparently does the washing on a regular and recurring basis, but they're invisible, too. Puh-lease.

Life in a culture of that nature was one of constant, hard work for most people, and that work was very much in evidence. Shop fronts opened on the street, and crafts-persons did their work in the open air to take advantage of the free daylight. People were careful of their clothes and gear because they were expensive and they had few outfits. Social outcasts had a hard time making ends meet for themselves, much less amassing the wherewithal to take in complete strangers, feed, clothe, support, and marry them in stylish ceremonies.

The medieval village sets, decorations, and apparent societies ring as false as the dialogue and characters do in season 9.

[Mr Prophet]

Actually, I can kind of buy the lack of a proper economy in the Ori territories. After all, they are ruled by these all powerful beings and their largely-powerful Priors. The economy then would seem to be: worship us, do our labour and we'll guarantee you a decent standard of life. Ori worshippers labour not for payment or survival, so much as to keep them too busy to think inconvenient thoughts.

But in just about any other scenario, it's pretty well unforgivable slackness.

Daniel: This must be the chief.
Cameron: How can you tell?
Daniel: Because he hasn't got crap all over him.

[Skydiver]

yep. survival in the medieval times was a full time job and struggle. heck, even to the turn of the last century, people worked 18 hours a day to survive

tv idealizes the past and ignores that day to day life was a struggle

medieval villages were dirty, smelly, crowded. the livestock was given more care than the kids and simple things like an unvaried diet and simple cut on the finger could kill. In face, IIRC, the life expectancy was what? less than 50 years????

it was no romantic time. it was a hard life

[suse]

And would someone please explain the medieval economy to these folks? Harlot-haunted taverns are large, open, and equipped with sturdy, stylistc furniture. Nobody needs the well-built space of the Merlin Memorial library's non-booby-trapped rooms. Growing children run around in fancy clothes and don't worry about getting them dirty. The streets are a sea of mud, but nobody's dirty. Vala's dribble-sheep of a husband is a socially outcast cripple with a huge, multi-storey, nicely appointed house. Nobody seems to do any farming to feed these people, or crafting to make all the implements, weapons, embroidered clothes, finely crafted furniture, beautifully bound and printed books, jewels, spacious architecturally detailed buildings, etc. that they have and use so carelessly. Somebody apparently does the washing on a regular and recurring basis, but they're invisible, too. Puh-lease.

Life in a culture of that nature was one of constant, hard work for most people, and that work was very much in evidence. Shop fronts opened on the street, and crafts-persons did their work in the open air to take advantage of the free daylight. People were careful of their clothes and gear because they were expensive and they had few outfits. Social outcasts had a hard time making ends meet for themselves, much less amassing the wherewithal to take in complete strangers, feed, clothe, support, and marry them in stylish ceremonies.

The medieval village sets, decorations, and apparent societies ring as false as the dialogue and characters do in season 9.

Well, my theory on Camelot - besides "Run awayy, run awayyy!" - is there are actually wizards a la HArry Potter behind the scenes. A simple cleaning spell will take care of the mess... They can't reveal themselves to non-magical people so... Yeah, I don't but it either. Arg!!!

Suse

[Simhavaktra]

Actually, I can kind of buy the lack of a proper economy in the Ori territories. After all, they are ruled by these all powerful beings and their largely-powerful Priors. The economy then would seem to be: worship us, do our labour and we'll guarantee you a decent standard of life. Ori worshippers labour not for payment or survival, so much as to keep them too busy to think inconvenient thoughts.

But in just about any other scenario, it's pretty well unforgivable slackness.

Daniel: This must be the chief.
Cameron: How can you tell?
Daniel: Because he hasn't got crap all over him.

Or:
Cameron: How did you get fancy, embroidered body armor???
Daniel: I asked the Prior-Of-Sartorial-Embellishment very, very nicely, that's how.

I must say I'm snickering wildly at the idea of Prior's going around magic-staffing into existence embroidered shifts, and boned bodices, and woven fillets, and prissy little crescent-headed shaft weapons, and 'leaf' sets (and the tea leaves to go in them too, no doubt), and carved bedsteads, and hanging bunches of dried herbs, and metalic-appliqued scapulars, and carved shutters, and tooled and gilded book bindings, and ladies' brocade surcoats, and wooden spoons, and fancy wrought metal torchieres, and leaded-glass window panes, and big farmhouse tables, and decollete wedding gowns in satiny white fabric, and various sorts of bed linens, and ridiculous toilet seat spaceships with stargates in them all with the same blank, bleached-faced stolid intensity of purpose and assembly line stoicism.

Wave and Glow - it's an x-frame chair. Wave and Glow - it's a voile shift, tastefully embroidered in a delicate vine and leaf pattern. Wave and Glow - it's a copy of Origin in a tooled, gilded, jeweled binding. Wave and Glow - it's a plague. Wave and glow - it's a beast-drawn cart. Wave and Glow - it's a toilet-seat spaceship, complete with weaponry, hyperdrive, all necessary life support systems and super shields. Wave and Glow - it's a pillowcase... I wonder if Priors get RSI (repetitive staff injuries ) of their waving wrists?

At least I now have my own understanding of why there seem to be so many Priors - it's not to convert the heathens, it's to make sure the muggle laundry gets done.

[Mr Prophet]

I was thinking more that if the Priors ensure bumper harvests and the Ori supply easily accessible raw materials in the manner of the spirits in, well, Spirits, the people would be free to run a fashion and furniture industry.

[kazzyk]

You guys are so funny lol

Actually--the whole "Merlin" thing was way over the top IMO. It became like a cartoon for me.
You know--- that is all we are missing--a bit of animation.

[Skydiver]

i just thought of another HUGE plot hole.

ok, IIRC, vala says that they spent 6 hours praying/prostrating. the episode when she and daniel are in poor harrid and sallis.

ok, so if we cn presume that the faithful must spend 6 hours a DAY praying...when do they have time to farm?

farming, especially in the 18th and 19th century were full time jobs. dawn to dusk, literally. not to mention the other little necessities ofl ife, such as bakers, candlestick makers, etc. all those other trades that took all day to do.

so if these folks are praying 6 hours a day, how long can they keep it up before the society starts to crumble because the jobs necessary to life aren't getting done?

if hte miller - the one that grinds the wheat into flour - can't mill for 6 hours a day, how is there enough flour and bread to feed the people?