S10: Critique & Contemplation

[ShardsofGlass]

Sorry RoX....

Mitchell? Dude flew a jet. One of dozens who did - and got shot down. Heroic? Sure, but not enough to promise him any spot at the SGC. As soon as Hammond ordered "Protect SG-1 at all costs"(one would assume that includes with your life) the CMoH went out the window.

What's with the lower case letters? Is that supposed to signify something? Like you're whispering? I don't get it.

As far as what exactly Mitchell did in the battle? I don't know how you can tell what he did from those brief flashbacks. If you (general you, not specific you) don't like the character and resent that he's in the show, then you assume that all he did was crash a jet.

But if you like the character or don't mind that he's on the show, then you go along with how everyone on SG-1 thanked him for what he did and assume it was above and beyond what others did who were flying those planes.

IIRC SG-1 were last recognized for being great in Family. Other than that they got a "good job" and they went on. Mitchell suffered from "Hey! Isn't he a great character!!"!-itis. Show me (and not is the team loving him and shoehorn!him!in! flashbacks), don't tell me. Except what they showed me in S9 (and somewhat in S10) wasn't a hero, it was a man who couldn't control his emotions under pressure.

suse

We'll have to agree to disagree. Mitchell's backstory was in only one episode. I didn't see him shoehorned in at all. And they certainly didn't accept him right aways. In fact, none of them wanted to join up with him for quite a while.

And I totally disagree that they didn't show him as a hero or that he couldn't control his emotions in Seasons 9 and 10. No, he wasn't perfect. But if he was, people would be complaining about that. It's a lose-lose situation. There were many, many times where he was a leader, authoritative, and always trying to do the right thing.

If you don't like a character, then you don't like him, I get it. But you're defining him by a couple of eps and ignoring the rest because it doesn't fit your definition of how you see him.

[Melora]

What's with the lower case letters? Is that supposed to signify something? Like you're whispering? I don't get it.

As far as what exactly Mitchell did in the battle? I don't know how you can tell what he did from those brief flashbacks. If you (general you, not specific you) don't like the character and resent that he's in the show, then you assume that all he did was crash a jet.

But if you like the character or don't mind that he's on the show, then you go along with how everyone on SG-1 thanked him for what he did and assume it was above and beyond what others did who were flying those planes.



We'll have to agree to disagree. Mitchell's backstory was in only one episode. I didn't see him shoehorned in at all. And they certainly didn't accept him right aways. In fact, none of them wanted to join up with him for quite a while.

And I totally disagree that they didn't show him as a hero or that he couldn't control his emotions in Seasons 9 and 10. No, he wasn't perfect. But if he was, people would be complaining about that. It's a lose-lose situation. There were many, many times where he was a leader, authoritative, and always trying to do the right thing.

If you don't like a character, then you don't like him, I get it. But you're defining him by a couple of eps and ignoring the rest because it doesn't fit your definition of how you see him.

Yep. Such is the way of fandom.

I don't know what it is like from a Cam fan's POV so I'll just use Sam as an example -

Sam's either too perfect or she's a screw-up who should be court-martialed. If she plays any other role than that of a scientist, she is "Super!Sam" who can unrealistically do everything under the sun. But when she only does science and technobabble, she is too boring. If she plays an active role in an episode, she is taking screen time away from the other characters. But if she stays in the background, she is unnecessary and dull.

If she has one episode that focuses on her out of forty, she's stealing the limelight from the other characters and the team (even though most of the other characters had several focal episodes). If she takes credit for something (even if it is something she came up with), she is self-centered and egotistical. It does get aggravating.

I've just learned to deal with it and try not to let it get to me. You love the character of Mitchell and liked the way he was portrayed. That's all that matters. You're not going to convince someone who doesn't like him to see him differently, just like I'm never going to convince you that Sam should have been the leader of SG-1 in Seasons 9+10.

I will say that I liked Cam, not b/c he was written as an "instantaneous hero" who "got the band back together," but because he was written as a nice and likable guy. More so, I liked him b/c of the warmth and charm Ben brought to the role. But I can't help wishing that his back story had been presented differently. IMHO, the writers did the character a great disservice by not giving him any Gate experience and then putting him in charge of SG-1 just b/c he did something heroic.

BTW - the highest award Sam has ever gotten is the Airman's Medal, which she already had when she arrived at the SGC. Even though Jack and Hammond thought the world of her, praise from your CO is a far cry from the MoH and choice of any position you want.

[EvenstarSRV]

Secondly, whoever said Mitchell "saved the day"? I don't remember hearing that on the show. I think you're jumping to conclusions here. I just remember that Mitchell did something heroic, but the specifics weren't mentioned. I found the battle way too confusing and vague to understand exactly what Mitchell did in that battle. Since everyone on SG-1 thanked him for the job he did and since Jack offered him any position he wanted, I think it's safe to assume that he did something pretty darn heroic.

From what I remember, the essentials of Mitchell's actions in the Lost City battle was to lead the F-302 squadron against Anubis's fighters to protect SG-1 and allow them to complete their mission. I think they show/imply him shooting down a few fighters, and then his plane is hit, Mitchell crash lands, and the battle continues and is won by SG-1, Hammond and others.

If I had to evaluate each individual's actions during that battle in order to determine who to give an award like the Medal of Honor too, between the choices of O'Neill, Hammond, and Mitchell, I personally think O'Neill would have been the most deserving. I think he went above and beyond the call of duty by taking the Ancient download, while Mitchell was mainly shown following his orders to protect SG-1.

The difficulty I had with Mitchell receiving the Medal of Honor for his actions in the battle over Antarctica was exactly that his flashbacks shown in Avalon were so vague and confusing compared to SG-1's actions, especially O'Neill and Hammond's during the same battle as shown in Lost City. So I do think it kind of comes across as Mitchell 'stealing SG-1's thunder', because neither O'Neill or Hammond were shown receiving any awards for their actions in Lost City, while Mitchell did.

That's why I feel it would have been more believable for the writers to take the time to show Mitchell becoming a hero during season 9, rather than relying on vague and confusing flashbacks to instantly make him a hero in Avalon. If I want to believe that Mitchell is a hero from the get-go, then I'd like to specifically see his heroic act and not just assume it.

[Crazedwraith]

I once read a fanfic that decided that rather shooting down that Al'Kesh, Mitchell had rammed it to save SG-1, which result in his crash. Which I think is a far better explanation by far than the canon one.

[Skydiver]

I would say folks, calling characters names is not conducive to discussion

Let's try to critique without name calling please

[silly sally]

I would say folks, calling characters names is not conducive to discussion

Let's try to critique without name calling please

But where's the fun in that?

[jckfan55]

From what I remember, the essentials of Mitchell's actions in the Lost City battle was to lead the F-302 squadron against Anubis's fighters to protect SG-1 and allow them to complete their mission. I think they show/imply him shooting down a few fighters, and then his plane is hit, Mitchell crash lands, and the battle continues and is won by SG-1, Hammond and others.

If I had to evaluate each individual's actions during that battle in order to determine who to give an award like the Medal of Honor too, between the choices of O'Neill, Hammond, and Mitchell, I personally think O'Neill would have been the most deserving. I think he went above and beyond the call of duty by taking the Ancient download, while Mitchell was mainly shown following his orders to protect SG-1.

The difficulty I had with Mitchell receiving the Medal of Honor for his actions in the battle over Antarctica was exactly that his flashbacks shown in Avalon were so vague and confusing compared to SG-1's actions, especially O'Neill and Hammond's during the same battle as shown in Lost City. So I do think it kind of comes across as Mitchell 'stealing SG-1's thunder', because neither O'Neill or Hammond were shown receiving any awards for their actions in Lost City, while Mitchell did.

That's why I feel it would have been more believable for the writers to take the time to show Mitchell becoming a hero during season 9, rather than relying on vague and confusing flashbacks to instantly make him a hero in Avalon. If I want to believe that Mitchell is a hero from the get-go, then I'd like to specifically see his heroic act and not just assume it.

Well said. I really see Mitchell as *one of many* in that battle who helped SG1 complete the mission. Based on what we saw he was no more heroic than the other pilots, the only thing was that he crashed and survived.

I would rather they handled Mitchell in some other way. I know they said they wanted him to be known to SG1, but that was tricky given that we'd never seen him before.

The "green" quality mentioned by someone was that though he had commanded a squadron apparently, he had zero off world experience. That's not the most logical choice for command of the flagship team, even if it needed to be re-formed.

One aspect of Mitchell's backstory I did like was his fighting to rehab after the crash. The idea that he wanted to *join* SG1 was ok.

[suse]

What's with the lower case letters? Is that supposed to signify something? Like you're whispering? I don't get it.

The smaller words are a thought in a thought. More stream of consciousness.

As far as what exactly Mitchell did in the battle? I don't know how you can tell what he did from those brief flashbacks. If you (general you, not specific you) don't like the character and resent that he's in the show, then you assume that all he did was crash a jet.

But if you like the character or don't mind that he's on the show, then you go along with how everyone on SG-1 thanked him for what he did and assume it was above and beyond what others did who were flying those planes.

One could (and I did ) assume that TPTB spending time showing Mitchell flying would *include* exactly what he did to be worthy of a spot at the SGC and SGC veterans being just fine with leading lead by one without offworld experience. Why else go to all that expense if they don't *show* us, but still need to *tell* us?

I liked large portions of the character and was looking forwrd to him being on the show. Just not where the character was placed on the team.

Others gave their lives. How could what he did be above and beyond what others did who flew those planes?

We'll have to agree to disagree. Mitchell's backstory was in only one episode. I didn't see him shoehorned in at all. And they certainly didn't accept him right aways. In fact, none of them wanted to join up with him for quite a while.

Agree to disagree it is!

Not accepting him right away was about the only thing the writers did realistically.

And I totally disagree that they didn't show him as a hero or that he couldn't control his emotions in Seasons 9 and 10. No, he wasn't perfect. But if he was, people would be complaining about that. It's a lose-lose situation. There were many, many times where he was a leader, authoritative, and always trying to do the right thing.

If you don't like a character, then you don't like him, I get it. But you're defining him by a couple of eps and ignoring the rest because it doesn't fit your definition of how you see him.

Yup, those eps were character-defining for me. I don't ignore the rest, there were times I found him a to be amusing and a nice guy who tried to do the right thing. But in the end where he was placed on the team - with no explanation of why Sam/Teal'c/Daniel would accept him there other than appreciation for what he did (in an entirely different specialty), how he was purposefully written as lacking gate experience so he could be enthusistic... no.

suse

[hisg1fans]

Did you know that the MOH the medal that shall not be named comes with several special entitlements?

Each awardee is entitled to:

• receive the special pension of $1069.00 per month.

• special entitlements to air transportation under the provisions of DOD Regulation 4515.13-R.

• an identification card, commissary and exchange privileges for recipients and their eligible dependents.

• The children of recipients are eligible for admission to the U.S. Service Academies without regard to the quota requirements.

• a ten percent increase in retired pay under Title 10, USC 3991, subject to the 75% limit on total retired pay.

I had no idea that so much came with this award. I guess it just goes to show how important an honor it is.

Yes, the respect and privileges are huge. However, one shouldn't think there are very many people walking around with these privileges. 90% are awarded posthumously.

[Melora]

Yes, the respect and privileges are huge. However, one shouldn't think there are very many people walking around with these privileges. 90% are awarded posthumously.

That is very interesting. I knew it was a huge honor and that very few people ever receive it. I had no idea that it came with such privileges and that really brings home just how special an honor it is.


New topic for discussion -

Perhaps they gave Cam the MoH b/c they thought he was going to die?


I still think its b/c the writers didn't do their homework and wanted to present Cam as a big instantaneous hero, but this theory could be plausible. Or maybe just a little less implausible.

What does everyone else think?

[Mandysg1]

That is very interesting. I knew it was a huge honor and that very few people ever receive it. I had no idea that it came with such privileges and that really brings home just how special an honor it is.


New topic for discussion -

Perhaps they gave Cam the MoH b/c they thought he was going to die?


I still think its b/c the writers didn't do their homework and wanted to present Cam as a big instantaneous hero, but this theory could be plausible. Or maybe just a little less implausible.

What does everyone else think?

I don't think they would give it to someone because they thought he would die. It is very difficult to get this medal and you have to go above and beyond (I believe) what your duty calls for, distinguishing yourself from others in the battle (in this case). Like others have said, many pilots were shot down, injured or killed, Cam was just one of many doing the same thing.

I do think it was TPTB not doing thier homework (or not listening to the military advisor) and wanted to make him an INSTANT HERO, so we would HAVE TO LIKE HIM, without even thinking about it Perhaps more thought into the character and mapping out how they wanted him to be and what they wanted him to do, would have gone much father in making him a more well rounded character.

[EvenstarSRV]

But if you like the character or don't mind that he's on the show, then you go along with how everyone on SG-1 thanked him for what he did and assume it was above and beyond what others did who were flying those planes.

IMO, I don't think it's just a matter of liking/disliking the character or his addition to the show, but more about a continuity of the show's canon. If what the characters say fails follow established canon, then I'm going to have trouble believing it. If the writers wanted me to believe that Mitchell's actions were above and beyond that of the other 302 pilots, then I think they should have clearly shown it.

I think leaving it up to an assumption of heroics not only badly weakened that aspect Mitchell's backstory, but also weakened the new character's establishment into the SGC since his joining of SG-1 was heavily predicated on his heroics.

New topic for discussion -

Perhaps they gave Cam the MoH b/c they thought he was going to die?


I still think its b/c the writers didn't do their homework and wanted to present Cam as a big instantaneous hero, but this theory could be plausible. Or maybe just a little less implausible.

What does everyone else think?

I think there has to be more to the awarding a medal of that kind, or any kind for that matter, than the fear that the person may die. It'd make it more implausible to me.

[suse]

IMO, I don't think it's just a matter of liking/disliking the character or his addition to the show, but more about a continuity of the show's canon. If what the characters say fails follow established canon, then I'm going to have trouble believing it. If the writers wanted me to believe that Mitchell's actions were above and beyond that of the other 302 pilots, then I think they should have clearly shown it.

I think leaving it up to an assumption of heroics not only badly weakened that aspect Mitchell's backstory, but also weakened the new character's establishment into the SGC since his joining of SG-1 was heavily predicated on his heroics.

Nicely put! It's what I was trying to say only better.

suse

[suse]

I don't think they would give it to someone because they thought he would die. It is very difficult to get this medal and you have to go above and beyond (I believe) what your duty calls for, distinguishing yourself from others in the battle (in this case). Like others have said, many pilots were shot down, injured or killed, Cam was just one of many doing the same thing.

I do think it was TPTB not doing thier homework (or not listening to the military advisor) and wanted to make him an INSTANT HERO, so we would HAVE TO LIKE HIM, without even thinking about it Perhaps more thought into the character and mapping out how they wanted him to be and what they wanted him to do, would have gone much father in making him a more well rounded character.

Meh. Imo they wanted to have him already a hero so he would be worthy of leading our heroes. Coop said they thought it would be more interesting to have him already a hero. YMMV on that idea, obviously.

suse

[EvenstarSRV]

Meh. Imo they wanted to have him already a hero so he would be worthy of leading our heroes. Coop said they thought it would be more interesting to have him already a hero. YMMV on that idea, obviously.

I would think having Mitchell start out as a hero would be pretty limiting to his story arc, because it leaves the character little room for development in that aspect, except perhaps a fall from hero to more of an anti-hero, which could have been interesting.

O'Neill, Carter, Daniel, and Teal'c didn't start as heroes, so the audience got to follow them on their respective heroic arcs, rejoicing at their triumphs and sympathizing with the setbacks. I think seeing Mitchell go through a similar arc would have been more interesting than having him be a hero from the beginning.