S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Mandysg1]

Here, here! Except the pantless!Cam bit. :

I'm lucky in that I can separate 'classic' SG-1 from 'new' SG-1. I know some who can't and have given away (or destroyed) all their Stargate DVDs.

suse

Yea, I'm lucky that way too, but if I had bought the movies (which thankfully I hadn't) I would have been like some others I saw trying to sell them on Ebay

Actually there was a large amount of AoT dvds for resale on Ebay soon after it's release.

[dipsofjazz]

I have seen some of the ideas that some have said and they would work if the show was Stargate Sam Carter but it's not. I get the impression that some would only accept Mitchell if he was subservient to Sam and that does not make sense to me Jack was not subservient to Sam so neither should Mitchell.

That's a rather sweeping statement, as I don't recall anyone here wanting the show to become 'Stargate-Sam Carter'.

I was looking forward to more team episodes, like in days of yore. Instead, all I got was the team broken up, just so Cooper and co. could insert a newbie as SG-1 leader.

I wouldn't have minded too much if Mitchell had been introduced as a full Colonel taking over command of SG-1, although it would have been a demotion for Sam, as she was already leader. If this had been the case, he would have been a more senior rank to Sam and she would obviously have had to follow his orders.
As it was, he was introduced as being the same rank as Sam, but she should have still remained leader as she had far more experience than Mitchell in gate travel and being on a front-line team.
Jack wouldn't have been subservient (or subordinate) to Sam, as he was a higher rank than her.

[dipsofjazz]

I never expected or even wanted the show to be focused around Sam Carter. All I ever wanted was for the show to make sense and for the all of the characters I liked to have intelligent and engaging story lines - that includes Cam. I don't have to have complete realism in a Sci-Fi show, but I do need for the stories given to the characters to make some sort of sense for those characters.

For the record, I would have accepted Mitchell more easily if he had been introduced in one of two ways:

1) as a Major with little Gate experience who was assigned to serve on SG-1 under Sam's command

OR

2) as a full-bird Colonel who had years of experience serving on and/or leading a Gate team.

Although the second option (which would have required Sam to take a demotion) would have been a little disappointing, it would have at least made more sense to me. The way it was written did not make sense in terms of the show's canon or in terms of what we know of the characters.

Sam was subservient to O'Neill b/c he was a superior officer with a wealth of experience in field-ops and Gate missions. Sam had no logical reason to be under Mitchell's command as they were the same rank and she had more Gate experience. If Sam had been assigned to lead an F-302 squadron and Cam was put under her command, it wouldn't have made sense to me either and I would have been just as annoyed.

I should have read your post before I posted mine. You said everything so much better than I did.

This is an 'I agree with everything you said' post.

[dipsofjazz]

One can only assume that she didn't disagree. Good looks didn't stop her from getting irked with Daniel or Jack...
Seriously, though, I have to think that if Amanda Tapping thought there was something wrong with the characterization, she would have brought it up. It's not as if she hadn't taken the writers to task before.

I remember she took the PTB to task about the kissing Pete bit at the end of 'Affinity', as she pointed out that Carter would never do that whist working. It's still there in the episode.
I know it's speculation, but if she did take them to task over things in s9 and 10, they may have just brushed her ideas aside to further the stories.

We'll never know, and I suppose we shouldn't speculate on what did or didn't happen.

[dipsofjazz]

"Was" is the operative word, there.
Whether one liked Cam's addition, or not, he was inexperienced-he isn't now.
He wasn't the most experienced military officer on the team, now he is. Can you not separate seasons 9 and 10 from the movies, or will your enjoyment of any forthcoming plot be tainted by an introduction that was almost 4 years ago now?

I'm afraid that everything to do with Stargate is now tainted for me after s9.
I was looking forward to seeing BB on the show, but the way Mitchell was introduced, and subsequently behaved, ruined the character for me.

[Mandysg1]

I'm afraid that everything to do with Stargate is now tainted for me after s9.
I was looking forward to seeing BB on the show, but the way Mitchell was introduced, and subsequently behaved, ruined the character for me.

Exactly, it's the same way for me. They say first impressions are very important, and it's true. No matter how they tried to tone down Mitchell the damage was done. And he still goes running off half cocked, so he hasn't really learned anything from his time 'leading' SG1

I'll have to wait for the 3d movie to see I will continue to follow the show in the movies. If not, I'll continue to enjoy SG1 s1-8 and leave the rest to those who like it.

[dipsofjazz]

For me, the movies are tainted by what happened in Seasons 9 and 10 (and not just Cam's introduction). I can sort of compartmentalize and pretend they are a separate entity or an alternate reality, but they are not really the same as classic SG-1 to me. In my mind, the SG-1 I loved ended with Moebius. I can find some enjoyment in parts of Seasons 9-10 and the movies, but I don't love them. I like most of the characters, but I no longer love them like I once did. Once I came to terms with that, I think I was more able to accept the show/movies for what they were. Even though the third movie will supposedly focus on Jack, I still do not believe that it will recapture the love I once had for the show.

It's like the old saying - "You can never go home again." To me, classic SG-1 (Seasons 1-8) was "home." But Seasons 9-10 changed too much and in the process I changed too much. I guess what I'm saying is that for me it's not so much about Mitchell (or even Vala) and how he was introduced. It's more about how my love for the show was extinguished in Seasons 9-10 by a multitude of choices that TPTB made.

Some people loved those same choices that disappointed me so very much and I'm happy for them. Unfortunately, I just can't feel the same way as I did anymore and nothing is going to change that.

Boy, that was a real downer. Sorry about that.

I think I will now look through pics of Jack and pantless!Cam to cheer myself up.

Sorry for the multiple posts. (Where is everyone else?)

I just wanted to say that, again, this is an 'I agree' post.

The choices that were made in s9 and 10, and the 'going against character' and against show canon writing has given me a bitter taste in my mouth.

As to the third movie; I should be looking forward to seeing it, as I love Jack, plus it should be more like a 'classic' team film.
Unfortunately, I worry that I will, yet again, be disappointed by the writing and characterisation.

[dipsofjazz]

Exactly, it's the same way for me. They say first impressions are very important, and it's true. No matter how they tried to tone down Mitchell the damage was done. And he still goes running off half cocked, so he hasn't really learned anything from his time 'leading' SG1

I'll have to wait for the 3d movie to see I will continue to follow the show in the movies. If not, I'll continue to enjoy SG1 s1-8 and leave the rest to those who like it.

Exactly, first impressions are very important and, as far as I'm concerned, they blew it. The same applies for Vala. I loved Qetesh, but I could never, ever, get my head around them making Vala a member of the team.

[Mandysg1]

Exactly, first impressions are very important and, as far as I'm concerned, they blew it. The same applies for Vala. I loved Qetesh, but I could never, ever, get my head around them making Vala a member of the team.

Yea, it didn't make sense and no matter how they tried to justify it, it just didn't wash. It would be like adding Maybourne to SG1, he was a good guest character, worked with Jack a number times, but was NEVER accepted as trustworthy or part of the team.

ETA: I'm here

[jckfan55]

Yea, it didn't make sense and no matter how they tried to justify it, it just didn't wash. It would be like adding Maybourne to SG1, he was a good guest character, worked with Jack a number times, but was NEVER accepted as trustworthy or part of the team.

ETA: I'm here

I think I could have accepted Vala as a recurring guest star. She could have remained an unrepentant thief who dealt with SG1 for her own reasons. Or we might have seen her reform slightly over time.

Heck, if they had been consistent with her that would have gone a long way. As someone said, just when you thought she was growing, they threw her back in the low cut tops & pigtails etc. Bleh.
It would be interesting to see who wrote her what way. Of course, RCC was the ultimate arbiter.
though he apparently re-wrote LiTS to make it a Vala episode, and Vala was actually ok in that one.

[suse]

I think I could have accepted Vala as a recurring guest star. She could have remained an unrepentant thief who dealt with SG1 for her own reasons. Or we might have seen her reform slightly over time.

Heck, if they had been consistent with her that would have gone a long way. As someone said, just when you thought she was growing, they threw her back in the low cut tops & pigtails etc. Bleh.
It would be interesting to see who wrote her what way. Of course, RCC was the ultimate arbiter.
though he apparently re-wrote LiTS to make it a Vala episode, and Vala was actually ok in that one.

As great a job at AT did in that ep the strongest parts of the ep were the Vala/Tomin scenes. Imagine if we had a Vala who didn't start out the way she did IN s9. Incredible.

suse

[EvenstarSRV]

I did a little research and found an explanation from RCC for why SG-1 was dismantled and Mitchell was introduced the way he was:



I was a bit confused when I read the sentence I bolded. If they knew the fans were going to have a problem with it and they cared so much about how the fans felt, why did they decide to split up the team? The fans complained about the lack of team episodes in Seasons 7+8, so they thought they would play on that idea and break up the team for real and then bring them back together in some sort of symbolic gesture?

If that was what they were trying to do, I have to admit that I didn't get it.

I understand the part about not wanting to resort to clichés. I don’t think I would have liked a dark, brooding Cam that nobody likes. So I’m glad we got a nice, enthusiastic, likable Cam instead. I just wish they had given him a different backstory. I also don’t understand the need to make him an “instantaneous hero.” I think I would have preferred for them to show him earning his stripes over the course of the season rather than making him a big hero from the start. It might have made his progression as a character a bit more interesting to me.

It’s been over four years and I am still baffled by so many of the choices TPTB made.

Thanks for posting that, I didn't start watching SG-1 until season 9 was almost over, so I missed all of the explanations of what happened in the rather big transition from season 8 to 9.

It does seem rather odd that in reaction to complaints by fan for lack of team interaction, the TPTB chose to actually break up the team. And I would agree that showing Mitchell becoming a hero rather than instantly being one would have been more interesting. I enjoyed the enthusiasm Mitchell brought to the team, but it crossed the line to recklessness a bit too often for me to accept in someone of his rank.

[jckfan55]

As great a job at AT did in that ep the strongest parts of the ep were the Vala/Tomin scenes. Imagine if we had a Vala who didn't start out the way she did IN s9. Incredible.

suse

I liked Vala best usually when she was away from Daniel as in this instance. Unfortunately for me, TPTB loved the Vala-Daniel dynamic they created.

[leiasky]

Lol! Not a problem! I just count myself lucky that it didn't affect me the same way. I would have written parts of season nine very differently if I were doing it, and Vala made me want to smack her into next week, but I still enjoyed it overall. It was still my SG-1, especially when Daniel was doing stuff like sacrificing himself to gain Merlin's knowledge. And when the Ori ships came pouring out for the gate and blew the fleet to heck, with poor Sam hanging in space? Chilling! So, I guess I'm just lucky.

Now go look at pretty pictures until you smile.

There were some episodes of 9 and 10 that I liked, what you've mentioned above being exactly some of them. I did like the search for Merlin's treasure as that harkened back to the old team days of SG-1.

I do confess to a sick fascination to seeing Earth ships get blown to pieces in different episodes. It just makes for one hell of a fun episode!

A friend has loaned me her copies of Farscape (I didn't watch it first run because I couldn't stand the puppetry) and I made it through three episodes last night before I wanted to run screaming back to SG-1 season 1. No offense to BB and CB but, their characters are just the SAME as in Stargate. I'm not sure I'll be able to keep my promise and watch the whole series, but, I've got the friend promising to watch Stargate, so - maybe I'll suffer. LOL!

[KatG]

A friend has loaned me her copies of Farscape (I didn't watch it first run because I couldn't stand the puppetry) and I made it through three episodes last night before I wanted to run screaming back to SG-1 season 1. No offense to BB and CB but, their characters are just the SAME as in Stargate. I'm not sure I'll be able to keep my promise and watch the whole series, but, I've got the friend promising to watch Stargate, so - maybe I'll suffer. LOL!

Ah yes, Farscape. Loved the first two seasons, couldn't take it after that. I agree that Cam Mitchell was a watered down version of Chricton (in fact there were times when he would do something and hubs and I would look at each other and go "Chricton". I didn't however see so much of Aeryn Sun in Vala, in fact almost the opposite, but I did find the fact that BB and CB were there a little jarring and out of place.