S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Jackie]

Feeling generous, Jackie?

Yep, other wise it would be negative 10.

[gateraid]

I was a Daniel fan and tptb changed him to the point where he's no longer Daniel to me.

Season 10 was just silly IMO. BIf I were to actually rate the season 9 and 10 would be about the same. 10 failed miserably to cement in Mitchell, give the Ori some back bone and make them interesting. It failed to include the cast in a meaningful story. It failed to fix the issues brought before in season 9...like closer for Jack. I give season 10 less room for error than season 9.

Season 9, though poor, was essentially a new show, new cast and new arc. By season 10 tptb should have had a handle on what needing fixing. Instead they just changed Vala into a teenie bopper and shoved D/V down our throats. I am less forgiving with the utter failer of season 10.

both seasons ranked about a 2 on my over all scale of 10.

Hell yeah definite quality drop but tbh I think my expectations dropped as well. I didn't bother watching it live, and bought the dvd set, so watched it in a reltatively short timeframe (a month I think) so there was actually some continuity and no big expectation built up week by week.

I never understood why they backtracked on Mitchell as ultimate leader in s10. I have always preferred Carter, but they made him the lead, then in s10 it became joint leaders, no chain of command, i don't lead anything. The fact that neither was a full bird (how implausible is it that the only two military members of a four person team are both Lt Col's from the same branch of the military, and both pilots to boot) just muddied things up. Especially when they were on board Earth ships, and the commander always deferred to them, even though he clearly outranked both of them.

Maybe by the time s10 aired my expectations were so low that anything could have surpassed them??

[Jackie]

Hell yeah definite quality drop but tbh I think my expectations dropped as well. I didn't bother watching it live, and bought the dvd set, so watched it in a reltatively short timeframe (a month I think) so there was actually some continuity and no big expectation built up week by week.

I never understood why they backtracked on Mitchell as ultimate leader in s10. I have always preferred Carter, but they made him the lead, then in s10 it became joint leaders, no chain of command, i don't lead anything. The fact that neither was a full bird (how implausible is it that the only two military members of a four person team are both Lt Col's from the same branch of the military, and both pilots to boot) just muddied things up. Especially when they were on board Earth ships, and the commander always deferred to them, even though he clearly outranked both of them.

Maybe by the time s10 aired my expectations were so low that anything could have surpassed them??

Command was a major issue. First tptb dissolve the team so they can have marty stue put SG-1 back together. Then when tptb figured out fans were ticked off about Sam losing command..."i don't lead anything" was a half hearted attempt to smooth that over.

It just made it worse imo.

Anyways, by the end of the season Daniel was basically in command with Vala hanging off his elbow...sporting pink fuzzy handcuffs.

[Mandysg1]

Command was a major issue. First tptb dissolve the team so they can have marty stue put SG-1 back together. Then when tptb figured out fans were ticked off about Sam losing command..."i don't lead anything" was a half hearted attempt to smooth that over.

It just made it worse imo.

Anyways, by the end of the season Daniel was basically in command with Vala hanging off his elbow...sporting pink fuzzy handcuffs.

Oh don't forget the throw away line...that he was special ops too the absurdity just continued

[Jackie]

Oh don't forget the throw away line...that he was special ops too the absurdity just continued

oh yeah...not only was he an ace pilot but also...a commando...lol. The only thing missing from Marty Mitchell was the arm candy. Vala was busy with Daniel. TPTB did some minor hinting with Sam and Mitchell....I am truly surprised tptb didn't completely throw Sam's character out the window and have her fall for the newbie after he heoically runs through a blazing wall of fire and saves her with motuh to mouth rescue breathing.

[scifithinker]

oh yeah...not only was he an ace pilot but also...a commando...lol. The only thing missing from Marty Mitchell was the arm candy. Vala was busy with Daniel. TPTB did some minor hinting with Sam and Mitchell....I am truly surprised tptb didn't completely throw Sam's character out the window and have her fall for the newbie after he heroically runs through a blazing wall of fire and saves her with mouth to mouth rescue breathing.

Ugh. I was eating when I read that.

That scenario had never crossed my mind. I feel like I need to wash my brain out with soap now.

[Skydiver]

rotlololol

see, there is a silver lining, because it could have always been worse

[RealmOfX]

Ugh. I was eating when I read that.

That scenario had never crossed my mind. I feel like I need to wash my brain out with soap now.

*pats SFT on back to stop the choking*

Come on you know you shouldn't eat or drink when reading GW

*passes the soap and scrubbing brush*

rotlololol

see, there is a silver lining, because it could have always been worse

Oi!! The mind boggles!

[Jackie]

Ugh. I was eating when I read that.

That scenario had never crossed my mind. I feel like I need to wash my brain out with soap now.

*preforms heimlich maneuver*

rotlololol

see, there is a silver lining, because it could have always been worse

True, but the scenario I threw out wasn't that far from what we got. End of AoT...pretty darn close with the cookies and peck on the cheek.

[gateraid]

Command was a major issue. First tptb dissolve the team so they can have marty stue put SG-1 back together. Then when tptb figured out fans were ticked off about Sam losing command..."i don't lead anything" was a half hearted attempt to smooth that over.

It just made it worse imo.

Anyways, by the end of the season Daniel was basically in command with Vala hanging off his elbow...sporting pink fuzzy handcuffs.

Yes, or lack of it. O'Niell/Caldwell/Hammond have always exuded authority (IMO of course), yet neither contender since then was written that way (prior to, yes, after, no)
"I don't lead anything" was a major cop-out. Not only was in unrealistic in terms of chain of command, it was unrealistic in terms of character. These people are the best of the best, supposedly very driven people, and yet they are just comfortable to "go with the flow" instead of actually lead? Yeah right

oh yeah...not only was he an ace pilot but also...a commando...lol. The only thing missing from Marty Mitchell was the arm candy. Vala was busy with Daniel. TPTB did some minor hinting with Sam and Mitchell....I am truly surprised tptb didn't completely throw Sam's character out the window and have her fall for the newbie after he heoically runs through a blazing wall of fire and saves her with motuh to mouth rescue breathing.

I don't want to start anything (I'm only a visitor to this thread) but if you're gonna call Mitchell a marty stue, then surely Carter has to be mary sue. All of the characters are written to be experts in everything. It's just a conceit of television.

*preforms heimlich maneuver*




True, but the scenario I threw out wasn't that far from what we got. End of AoT...pretty darn close with the cookies and peck on the cheek.

Ugh. I don't ship them (mates, yes, **** buddies, unlikely) but that scene at the end was just, well, weird. I doubt it was their intention for it to be perceived that way, but that's the way it played. Although tbh if they did hook up, at least that would be one boyfriend who didn't die. Or wasn't unobtainable in some way (ancient, CO, FBI stalker, Tok'ra.....)

[jckfan55]

Yes, or lack of it. O'Niell/Caldwell/Hammond have always exuded authority (IMO of course), yet neither contender since then was written that way (prior to, yes, after, no)
"I don't lead anything" was a major cop-out. Not only was in unrealistic in terms of chain of command, it was unrealistic in terms of character. These people are the best of the best, supposedly very driven people, and yet they are just comfortable to "go with the flow" instead of actually lead? Yeah right

Right. It made no sense.

I don't want to start anything (I'm only a visitor to this thread) but if you're gonna call Mitchell a marty stue, then surely Carter has to be mary sue. All of the characters are written to be experts in everything. It's just a conceit of television.

to some degree, yes. But we really got a hard sell with Mitchell that put my back up.

[Jackie]

I don't want to start anything (I'm only a visitor to this thread) but if you're gonna call Mitchell a marty stue, then surely Carter has to be mary sue. All of the characters are written to be experts in everything. It's just a conceit of television.

To a degree ALL characters are marys and martys. By nature of writing, every character the author invents has some part of themselves inside. Some characters are just more obvious than others. The only way around the marty and mary complex is to base a character on an actual person...living or dead...that the author knows. I base many of my OC characters on people I know or read about. Other wise...all my original characters would be the same.

Carter is a little bit of a mary sue, I would agree, but nowheres near the flaming marty stu Mitchell was. Even Daniel is a big old marty stu. More so in season 9 and 10 then in earlier seasons.

Rodney is the most obvious Marty Stu on SGA followed by Sheppard and Keller...both in a close tie.

[gateraid]

Right. It made no sense.


to some degree, yes. But we really got a hard sell with Mitchell that put my back up.

Hard sell? Boy is that an understatement. I read a review prior to seeing the ep about how they didn't make it all 'Mitchell the hewo, look at me'. HRM. Depends on your perspective I guess. It's hard to say how those first few eps would have played with Carter/AT there, but my guess is not a lot different. The bit with the sword? From a writing point of view, i can appreciate it as it is demonstrating Mitchell's strength of character. Pity we never saw that again. But it was just a bit too much.

To a degree ALL characters are marys and martys. By nature of writing, every character the author invents has some part of themselves inside. Some characters are just more obvious than others. The only way around the marty and mary complex is to base a character on an actual person...living or dead...that the author knows. I base many of my OC characters on people I know or read about. Other wise...all my original characters would be the same.

Carter is a little bit of a mary sue, I would agree, but nowheres near the flaming marty stu Mitchell was. Even Daniel is a big old marty stu. More so in season 9 and 10 then in earlier seasons.

Rodney is the most obvious Marty Stu on SGA followed by Sheppard and Keller...both in a close tie.

I guess we'll have to disagree on that. I think Carter is more than a little Mary Sue (relatively quick ascension to Colonel, smartest person currently on earth, pilot, respected for both her scientific and military knowledge) compared to Cam (pilot, ?) but there was a much harder sell on Mitchell and in a much shorter period of time. Don't get me started on Daniel. The character was re-written completely for the return of MS. I didn't much care for the character before (in MS's words, he was a whiney little *****) but he was a necessary voice. S9-10 - oh dear.

[Skydiver]

it's one thing to start them out as mary/marty sue/stu's. and yeah, daniel and his 23 languages???? Sam's wealth of knowledge?? Jack's superior tactical skill. Poor tealc being the encyclopedia britania of the galaxy at large.

but the line they never crossed wtih these four was the 'oh, look, s/he sacrificed themselves to save the team, they must join us' 'oh look, isn't s/he sweet/cutee/adorable!!! they must join the team in gratitude for being so super duper special!!!!'

mitch was an in your face marty stu. they over hyped him to the point that you wondered whose brother he was.

the others were a bit ott, that grew into each other and accepted each other

[scifithinker]

I've always thought that Mary Sues and Marty Stus were characters brought in to save the regular characters. As such, I have never considered Carter a Mary Sue or Daniel a Marty Stu.