Fire and Water (112)

[juggernaut975]

I'll echo the sentiment regarding never seeing Nem or anyone of his race again. It's a shame because here you have a technologically advanced race capable of living thousands and thousands of years and yet.....one appearance.

It would have been a nice 'middle of the road' like alien race to counter the Goa'uld (evil) and Asgard (good).

Thought it very, very strange though that they would treat Nem so sympathetically considering what he did to all of them.....to not only violate their minds but to also leave such a painful memory....and so shoddily at that that there were complications later.

Yet at the end of the episode we see Daniel trying to reach out still with Nem only to be told 'In time, perhaps....'

Why he would do this, not sure....he's a better person than I am, no contest lol.

I am sympathetic to Nem's loss, sure, but that doesn't excuse his brutal violation of SG1 and Daniel's captivity.

[Brother Freyr]

Thought it very, very strange though that they would treat Nem so sympathetically considering what he did to all of them

Good points and questions, all. I think the answer to why they (the writers) treat Nem so sympathetically is found here:

The plot is such a nice reflection of Daniel's feelings about Sha're

I think this is largely the parralel this episode is running along.

On a purely emotional level, aggression toward Nem would insert a discordant tone after the episode-long harmony of Nem and Daniel's stories. TPTB simply opted for a feel-good resolution rather than a more realistic (but emotionally jarring) end. (Of course, for Daniel it's consistent with his usual behavior. Ever the conciliator.)

[Matt G]

Another Sunday afternoon and another episode of SG1...

1. This ep started on a bit of a flat note. Come on...even first time round with no involvement in fandom at that point I knew that they couldn't have killed Daniel that quickly.

2. As a result, the memorial service seemed a bit cheap this time round, particularly remembering...

Spoiler:

Janet's death

3. I'd forgotten about how Nem initially assumed that SG1 must serve the Goa'uld. And...oldest?

4. One theory I've got concerning why New wanted to keep DAniel around even if he couldn't answer his questions was for the company. That and he thought Daniel would remember eventually.

Decent enough ep.

[Krisz]

I liked this episode mainly for the fact we meet a more 'alien' alien, on a planet where water is the more hospitable environment, so we get the aquatic life form. I agree it was a shame we never saw more of Nem, and more aquatic aliens,

Spoiler:

.........only one other down the line in the course of the series....In 'Watergate', and even then we didn't actually see them as such!

Even when I first saw this I somehow didn't believe that Daniel had really died. Discovering what had happened with the mind tampering was interesting to watch and I just felt it was a matter of time before they discover what truly happened. We learn more about the aliens on Earth over the course of its history too, I really liked how cleverly the myths and legends of Earth are explained in SG-1 as a result of real events and alien influences.

I never noticed first time of watching Stargate how quickly the team actually bonded if you look at the relatively short period of time since they got together. Guess it was this great chemistry between a bunch of likeable characters that kept me coming back for more.

Again, can beat the Stargate humour!

DANIEL: Ah, this— this is a long story.
CARTER: Yeah, I'll bet!
O'NEILL: Tell us about it over Sushi?

[hlndncr]

I love this episode. I think it's a great little oft forgotten gem. It feels like SG1 really got cooking here at the backend of Season 1 and is quickly coming into its own. For me a big part of that is how the team comes together. You just really feel their bond in this one, not just for Daniel who they think is gone but the others as well as the ones who have been left behind. We also see more of wonderful Janet being so caring and yet so in control. The fatherly Hammond. And for me personally, love the hug! Mmmmm RDA hug. (Sorry, not a thunk thread. )

Honestly this is one I don't think too hard about. I just watch and enjoy.

[LeftHandedGuitarist]

I remembered this episode being pretty weak, but it turned out to be fairly enjoyable. That said, it has quite a few big factors which let it down and they can all be related back to the teething problems any young television series can have. Let's start with the bad stuff.

The opening moments of the episode don't really work. Being told that Daniel is dead is not going to fool any television audience, and it's never a good way for any sci-fi episode to start. We know he's not dead, and there's zero tension because of that. The episode does wait quite a while before showing us he is alive, but it's still not a big surprise when it does. Amanda Tapping does some seriously over-the-top poor acting in a number of scenes, notably her "in shock" coming through the wormhole, and while she's under hypnosis. RDA and Chris Judge, on the other hand, give very nice restrained and more subtle performances.

The other big problem here for me was the alien Nem, who is referred to briefly as an Oanne. He's just awful. The alien design here goes well over the line into the realms of Star Trek, and even back in 1997 I was enjoying Stargate because it was nothing like Trek. The character is given bad dialogue, and the acting is not enjoyable to watch. Nem getting emotional is just cringeworthy, and his big scream fares only a little better than Darth Vaders "NOOOOOO" in Episode III. He's played by the same actor who was in The Broca Divide, and I don't know if it's just me but this guy just cannot act well on screen.

Michael Shanks, on the other hand, delivers a briliant performance opposite him. As mentioned above, we get to see his little frustration dance which would become a character trademark, and Daniel is given some good material to work with as he discusses ancient languages and tales from Babylon. I don't like the scenes with him undergoing the memory-recall procedure, again things go a bit over-the-top, but it's over quickly.

I did like the scenes back on Earth more. Visiting Daniel's apartment was interesting, and I felt a geeky twinge and actually paused the DVD when Sam was reading through Daniel's journal so I could read what was written in there. It's actually quite amusing. The two pages are talking about playing an ancient boardgame (likely the same one Teal'c talks about moments later) but in the middle of all this writing is the one little sentence Sam reads out ("Sha're is gone...").

Dull and uninteresting discussion about the rules to a boardgame, a single sentence about his personal torment, and then right back to those important game rules. Have a look at it! It's looks very odd!

Best moment of the episode for me was when Jack smashes General Hammond's car window! Brilliantly done, really made me laugh - "you know, that's my car?". Gotta love Hammond.

Rating: 6.5 out of 10

[Skydiver]

thought i recognized the voice...Tuplo

I think the brightest spot of the whole episode was 'don't leave anyone behind'...all you got out there is each other and you take care of each other

[Traveler Enroute1]

SG Rewatch episodes: 101 - 105, 106, 107, 109, 110, 111,112

Fire and Water

Neat little mystery: Daniel's dead. Or is he? Liked the directing here, using the team's traumatic return and backtracking to what really happened. All the while we know that Daniel indeed is alive if not well, captive of a driven acquatic life form. However, we don't know this until after the lead in, and we're lead right up to a formal military funeral for Daniel!

"May he rest in peace." Then cut to Daniel, and he's waking up.

OK, so it's early days yet and we naturally have a good sense that Daniel's breathing somewhere but it's always fun to see how the writers sell us on it.

I think I liked this episode most for the view of how deeply the team felt the loss of a member. Although the memory was a false one, their deep sorrow was from their genuine feelings for Daniel. Jack, Sam and Teal'c couldn't accept his loss even if they swore they saw him die. The way Jack unraveled at the service, the way they all recalled bubbles and got anxiety attacks over them, then the final hypnosis where Sam realizes they left Daniel behind; all nicely paced and spooled out convincingly.

Additional stuff:

• Is this the first 'Daniel's dead?' line? Besides the movie when Ra restores him, that is.
  
  
• 'Incoming traveler' doesn't hold the iris open by activating the signal as it did previously. Hammond has to order them to open it. Seemed like a long delay between initiation of transit and iris opening; expected to hear a thud on the iris.
  
  
• Loved the set design on Nem's underwater abode. And nice reveal when he appears to a startled Daniel. Neat sfx when the alien comes through the wall of water and is dry when he's inside.
  
  
• Janet pulls rank on Hammond. Two conflicting post trauma philosophies - 1) get back out there {as in 'get back on the horse'} right away, Hammond's view; or 2) take time to sort out feelings and determine ability to serve, Janet's view. Janet won!
  
  
• We get a first look at Dr. McKenzie, soon to be an un-favorite of our favorite team. He's aloof and clinical but apparently efficient.
  
  
• Daniel's apartment was really cool. I would love to be a visitor there, examining all his collections, or as Sam said, "all this stuff."
  
  
• Always laugh when Daniel does his frustration dance - flapping his arms and jumping up and down saying "Why why why..." So cute when he does that!
  
  
• Got kind of teary-eyed at the team's eagerness then stark disappointment when the incoming traveler isn't Daniel. Looks like they all wanted to cry.
  
  
• Then there's this moment when Hammond looked at the gate, and the camera lingers on it as if he's blaming it for causing their problems.
  
  
• Nem reminded me of The Creature from the Black Lagoon a little. His costume is, however, not as well- delineated as the creature's. Loved that guy.

So, another species on the map, that we don't get to know much about except they live as long as a Goa'uld, live mostly in water and are technologically saavy. Nem's race can apparently feel love, reason and act on moral impulses as with Omaroka's (sp?) quest to help the Tau'ri.

Oh, and don't appear to regard us too warmly just yet. He kind of toyed around with the team, esp Daniel so he could finally get an answer. If Daniel didn't die. Sad that we never encountered them again, see if they changed.

Rated 2.5/5

This is a re-post. Been having glitchy computer issues and an edit totally wiped the formatting and made this unreadable. Hope it makes better reading now! - TE1

[Noxbait]

I think I liked this episode most for the view of how deeply the team felt the loss of a member. Although the memory was a false one, their deep sorrow was from their genuine feelings for Daniel. Jack, Sam and Teal'c couldn't accept his loss even if they swore they saw him die. The way Jack unraveled at the service, the way they all recalled bubbles and got anxiety attacks over them, then the final hypnosis where Sam realizes they left Daniel behind; all nicely paced and spooled out convincingly.
[*]We get a first look at Dr. McKenzie, soon to be an un-favorite of our favorite team. He's aloof and clinical but apparently efficient.
[*]Always laugh when Daniel does his frustration dance - flapping his arms and jumping up and down saying "Why why why..." So cute when he does that!

Excellent post, Traveler! I love your points. This was a good episode to show how close the team has gotten over the course of a very short period of time. The friendship is what makes this series so great to me. They care about each other and that just moves the stories beyond run of the mill sci-fi. I love the human aspect. A good episode, that really showed the bonds of the team, but especially how much Jack cared about Daniel.

[jelgate]

The early years of Stargate had a lot of abandon plots arcs. Stories they started but dropped. This is one of those arcs. It always bugs me that they never continued any stories about the Nem's race of amphibians.

That said its a good episode. On one end it shows how much Daniel meant to SG1 during the fake grieving. You don't suffer that much when its just a co-worker who dies. Also I love laughing at Jack trashing Hammond's car. And Dr. McKenzie is always nice to see.

On the other side of the gate to me is not as interesting but still overall good. Nem seems to me like a troubled soul. He is not a bad person just determined to find his loved one. A lot of us would go to great lengths for one us love. Maybe too far from the audience perspective but I understand where he was coming from and I can respect that.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Jack wigging out and trashing Hammond's car is a scene that never gets old for me. Likewise, the portrayal of how deep the bonds between the SG-1 personnel had already become is absolutely heartwarming.

As for Nem, his sheer tenacity with regard to finding out what happened to Omoroca is heartbreaking. The similarity between himself and Daniel in having lost their mates to the Goa'uld is nicely done, especially Daniel's eventual realization of it.

[Lunaeclipse]

Jack wigging out and trashing Hammond's car is a scene that never gets old for me. Likewise, the portrayal of how deep the bonds between the SG-1 personnel had already become is absolutely heartwarming.

As for Nem, his sheer tenacity with regard to finding out what happened to Omoroca is heartbreaking. The similarity between himself and Daniel in having lost their mates to the Goa'uld is nicely done, especially Daniel's eventual realization of it.

I felt for Nem, it was clear that he loved Omarocca and wanted to find her. He must've been waiting a long time, so maybe that's why he didn't want to let Daniel go so easily...

[garhkal]

Excellent post, Traveler! I love your points. This was a good episode to show how close the team has gotten over the course of a very short period of time. The friendship is what makes this series so great to me. They care about each other and that just moves the stories beyond run of the mill sci-fi. I love the human aspect. A good episode, that really showed the bonds of the team, but especially how much Jack cared about Daniel.

Of all the Jack/daniel eps we have had this ranks up there.

[Noxbait]

Of all the Jack/daniel eps we have had this ranks up there.

one of the best!

[hedwig]

I felt for Nem, it was clear that he loved Omarocca and wanted to find her. He must've been waiting a long time, so maybe that's why he didn't want to let Daniel go so easily...

If Nem's and Daniel's conversation was anything to go by, then Nem had been waiting to hear anything about Omarocca for over 4,000 years. He was questioning Daniel about the fate of Omarocca and Daniel referred to Babylon, to which Nem said "Yes". That's an exceptionally long period of waiting to find out about one's mate and still love that mate.

NEM: What fate Omoroca?

DANIEL: Okay, okay, if my life is on the line here, I need to know more. What is Omoroca? WHO is Omoroca?

NEM: My MATE!

DANIEL: What? On Earth? In Babylon?

NEM: Yes

DANIEL: And you don't know what's happened to her? That was 4,000 years ago.