Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread

[DutchIndeed]

Ugh, I have nothing but a lousy killer kind of mood today!

Hugs to Sarai and everyone needing some!!

As for the posts on Sarah and season one, loved reading them! Shippers have so much going on... If we can talk so much about Ship, imagine what we could do about other things!

[Gatetrixer]

Evening all Good discussion about early Sam/Jack today, read some very interesting points .

Random and sad OTness:

Spoiler:

Was out and about today, sat down to have a coffee in Costa and got the fright of my life. Was just generally people watching and for a second I really thought I saw Gary Jones, just sat opposite me minding his own business! Obviously it wasn't him but I was staring at him for ages. Don't you just love it when that happens!!

Also, might be quite quiet on the posts tonight. Had some really bad news today, my cat had to be put down because of Feline infectious peritonitis. What really upsets me is that I didn't even get the chance to see him coz I live away from home. I mean at least he wasn't in any pain, if they'd have left it his kidneys would have shut down and he would have been in real pain but still would have liked to see him. It's just so rubbish when pets die because they don't understand but still its upsetting, just kinda brings home how fragile life can be . Anyway, enough bumming everyone out, I hope you are all safe and well. Love to all and their pets , Sarai x

Spoiler:

sorry to hear about your cat, Sarai. I know it's hard that you didn't get to see him. My daughter's cat (the one I wrote about that had cancer that had spread in spite of treatment) also was put down last week.

[Rachel500]

Hi all,

Finally - I get some time to play...thought I'd jump right in rather than catch up on everything...

I always think Jack and Sara's marriage was a pretty good, normal marriage; the usual arguments and issues - maybe partly caused by his absences and military bravado/communication skills but a good marriage that would have lasted the distance had Charlie lived. But I think Charlie's death and the circumstances of Charlie's death shatter the marriage completely. He blames himself; he doesn't want her forgiveness. In the movie, there is an air of bitterness in the couples' interaction; he feels unworthy of his life, of her, enough that it doesn't matter to him that they are still married in name when he heads off to Abydos on the suicide mission.

I've always got the impression that in COTG when Jack briefly talks to Daniel about it, there is the suggestion that Jack returned from Abydos willing to look at repairing his marriage only to find Sara gone (because she was unable to deal with him being the way he was about Charlie) and came to the conclusion that it was for the best - that she might have forgiven him Charlie but it would always be there unforgotten - the elephant in their marriage - and maybe he deserved to be alone given what had happened.

So, I do think in CL he still loved Sara - as soon as he knows she could be in danger he reacts. Their interaction at the hospital is one of deep caring and love. Yet, that end scene at the hospital is very much a goodbye scene. It's a 'we were good together but now its over' moment. Its a recognition by them both that that part of their lives is over.

In BC I tend to think Jack is writing to Sara because I tend to think he was leaving her everything when he died - at that point and with no evidence to the contrary, he has no other family to leave his belongings to - he and the team are bonded but they're not an automatic choice to leave the remnants of a life - Sara's probably the only choice he has. It may also have been a goodbye note that explains why its her, a note saying do what you want with it all...it's tying up the loose ends because he's about to die. And there may well have been a sentimental motive in leaving everything to her too - she was his wife and he loved her, still cared for her.

But by Solitudes, I rather think Sara was definitely past in Jack's mind rather than future but I don't think he's thinking Sam's the future either at this point. Jack's delirious when he calls Sam 'Sara'; he's in pain, confused, completely out of it with a warm womanly body cuddling into him; his first reaction probably is that its someone he knows such as the woman who used to be his wife not a junior officer under his command - no matter how much he might find her attractive. So I put that moment down to Jack's brain going to the easiest answer for who it was rather than any significance in him missing Sara herself.

But then I tend to agree that Jack and Sam wasn't love at first sight as it was an enormous attraction and a touch thereafter of falling deeply in like. I also think Sam spends much of S1 trying to prove herself to Jack and while I think she has flashes where she thinks of him as being attractive and likes him enormously, I think any self-awareness of how much she's finding him attractive, liking him, coming to care about him, would have been for Sam to have pulled back and gone 'woah there Sam; he's your CO; what are you thinking?'

However, I also think Solitudes is a turning point for them in that I think there would have been a huge bond between the two of them - and only the two of them - on their experience. And I think he's starting after Solitudes to consider Sam as something slightly more so by the time Politics arrives, his attention is caught on Daniel's 'you and Sam were engaged' and his only reaction is 'but it's against regulations' as though he's thought about it and come to the conclusion about why it can't happen.

I also think Jack is very aware in ITOD of how much Sam has come to mean to him personally. He's distraught at the idea of her dying, wipes away a tear. So I think Jack works out that he might care about her more than he should way before S3 - but I think he buries it in order to continue - probably berates himself and promises himself he won't do anything to hurt her career. Just as I think through S2 she's dealing with Jolinar and Martouf but starting to care more and more about him. Enough that by the finale of S2, beginning of S3, she's breaking orders to rescue him and he allows himself to show how much she means to him by hugging her to bits in the aftermath for more reasons than being cold.

I could go on but I have to go... have fun, Shippers!

[Oma-1]

It hasn't been made official? You mean, it's fanon?? Hmm... learn new things every day...

Just waking up, folks, and apparently *I* have nothing substantive to add to the conversation...

How about a pic?


Gratuitous Hand Holding! Woo Hoo!

Well...I'm not sure it's *just* fanon...someone asked JM something to the effect as to whether it was ever stated exactly what Jack's job title was, and he said no...but he answered it in such a way (relative to how the question was asked, because I think it did refer specifically to Homeworld Security) that implied he had indeed taken over for Hammond. At least that's how I understood it.

It's one of those really murky, grey areas isn't it! I'm 110% certain that I read on JM's Q&A thread that Jack had been promoted again and taken over from Hammond at Homeworld Security, because I remember being really wound up by the fact that all those fans out there who aren't involved in online fandom wouldn't know where Jack had gone! They saw at the end of S8 Sam & Jack fishing, the goa'uld wiped out, a zpm acquired......and then S9 starts.....and it's Huh? What's going on?

But does that count as canon? I thought to be canon, it had to be in the show?!?!?!?!?

I'm gonna have to re-watch S9& 10 if no one knows the answer, but does Landry say anything about where Jack is when Sam returns? Or at any other time? Or anyone else? My brain is a complete blank! I can't remember for the life of me

[starlover]

Ugh, I have nothing but a lousy killer kind of mood today!

Hugs to Sarai and everyone needing some!!

As for the posts on Sarah and season one, loved reading them! Shippers have so much going on... If we can talk so much about Ship, imagine what we could do about other things!

Why do I see gutter in here....

and Sarai also hugs from me!

FCOL, Seahen...don't you know you're supposed to be on-call 24/7 to answer our questions?!?!

She isn't but but but...what if I have a question in the middle of the night and she is not here to answer? I would go nuts! J/K

And just finished S2 Yay! Love those little scenes at the end(of Out of mind) between S/J...he is so checking her out when she is laying on that table...thing. and that he holds her*cough* again longer then nessesary*cough* just so darn cute

Ok gotta go to bed Good night shippers! *huggles to all of ya*

[Oma-1]

I just heard the funniest line, and I was wondering if someone would like to put it into an S/J fic:

Is that sexual frustration, or are you just constipated?

[Seahen]

FCOL, Seahen...don't you know you're supposed to be on-call 24/7 to answer our questions?!?!

She isn't but but but...what if I have a question in the middle of the night and she is not here to answer? I would go nuts! J/K

*edges slowly towards door*

Look! Sam and Jack are kissing!

*runs away*

[DutchIndeed]

Why do I see gutter in here....

Because you see gutter in everything

It's not me, it's you, hon!

I just heard the funniest line, and I was wondering if someone would like to put it into an S/J fic:

Is that sexual frustration, or are you just constipated?

...And the line just screamed S/J to you huh?

[Zoser]

Hi all,

Spoiler:

Finally - I get some time to play...thought I'd jump right in rather than catch up on everything...

I always think Jack and Sara's marriage was a pretty good, normal marriage; the usual arguments and issues - maybe partly caused by his absences and military bravado/communication skills but a good marriage that would have lasted the distance had Charlie lived. But I think Charlie's death and the circumstances of Charlie's death shatter the marriage completely. He blames himself; he doesn't want her forgiveness. In the movie, there is an air of bitterness in the couples' interaction; he feels unworthy of his life, of her, enough that it doesn't matter to him that they are still married in name when he heads off to Abydos on the suicide mission.

I've always got the impression that in COTG when Jack briefly talks to Daniel about it, there is the suggestion that Jack returned from Abydos willing to look at repairing his marriage only to find Sara gone (because she was unable to deal with him being the way he was about Charlie) and came to the conclusion that it was for the best - that she might have forgiven him Charlie but it would always be there unforgotten - the elephant in their marriage - and maybe he deserved to be alone given what had happened.

So, I do think in CL he still loved Sara - as soon as he knows she could be in danger he reacts. Their interaction at the hospital is one of deep caring and love. Yet, that end scene at the hospital is very much a goodbye scene. It's a 'we were good together but now its over' moment. Its a recognition by them both that that part of their lives is over.

In BC I tend to think Jack is writing to Sara because I tend to think he was leaving her everything when he died - at that point and with no evidence to the contrary, he has no other family to leave his belongings to - he and the team are bonded but they're not an automatic choice to leave the remnants of a life - Sara's probably the only choice he has. It may also have been a goodbye note that explains why its her, a note saying do what you want with it all...it's tying up the loose ends because he's about to die. And there may well have been a sentimental motive in leaving everything to her too - she was his wife and he loved her, still cared for her.

But by Solitudes, I rather think Sara was definitely past in Jack's mind rather than future but I don't think he's thinking Sam's the future either at this point. Jack's delirious when he calls Sam 'Sara'; he's in pain, confused, completely out of it with a warm womanly body cuddling into him; his first reaction probably is that its someone he knows such as the woman who used to be his wife not a junior officer under his command - no matter how much he might find her attractive. So I put that moment down to Jack's brain going to the easiest answer for who it was rather than any significance in him missing Sara herself.

But then I tend to agree that Jack and Sam wasn't love at first sight as it was an enormous attraction and a touch thereafter of falling deeply in like. I also think Sam spends much of S1 trying to prove herself to Jack and while I think she has flashes where she thinks of him as being attractive and likes him enormously, I think any self-awareness of how much she's finding him attractive, liking him, coming to care about him, would have been for Sam to have pulled back and gone 'woah there Sam; he's your CO; what are you thinking?'

However, I also think Solitudes is a turning point for them in that I think there would have been a huge bond between the two of them - and only the two of them - on their experience. And I think he's starting after Solitudes to consider Sam as something slightly more so by the time Politics arrives, his attention is caught on Daniel's 'you and Sam were engaged' and his only reaction is 'but it's against regulations' as though he's thought about it and come to the conclusion about why it can't happen.

I also think Jack is very aware in ITOD of how much Sam has come to mean to him personally. He's distraught at the idea of her dying, wipes away a tear. So I think Jack works out that he might care about her more than he should way before S3 - but I think he buries it in order to continue - probably berates himself and promises himself he won't do anything to hurt her career. Just as I think through S2 she's dealing with Jolinar and Martouf but starting to care more and more about him. Enough that by the finale of S2, beginning of S3, she's breaking orders to rescue him and he allows himself to show how much she means to him by hugging her to bits in the aftermath for more reasons than being cold.

I could go on but I have to go... have fun, Shippers!

Excellent post - I agree completely!

[AstraPerAspera]

It's one of those really murky, grey areas isn't it! I'm 110% certain that I read on JM's Q&A thread that Jack had been promoted again and taken over from Hammond at Homeworld Security, because I remember being really wound up by the fact that all those fans out there who aren't involved in online fandom wouldn't know where Jack had gone! They saw at the end of S8 Sam & Jack fishing, the goa'uld wiped out, a zpm acquired......and then S9 starts.....and it's Huh? What's going on?

But does that count as canon? I thought to be canon, it had to be in the show?!?!?!?!?

I'm gonna have to re-watch S9& 10 if no one knows the answer, but does Landry say anything about where Jack is when Sam returns? Or at any other time? Or anyone else? My brain is a complete blank! I can't remember for the life of me

I don't think Landry mentions it...but isn't he on the phone with Jack trying to convince him that he needs Sam back at the SGC when she walks in, reporting for duty? Obviously Jack has some say in where Sam gets assigned...which begs that whole CoC issue...but TPTB have been chronically vague as to reporting lines, not only w/Area 51 but also w/Atlantis. I think it's one of the major sticking points for folks who like to understand the lines of responsibility and who are sticklers for continuity. Perhaps, for Area 51...as with Atlantis...Jack doesn't have direct responsibility but only a sphere of influence...make recommendations, etc. Like how he recommended Sam for command of the Atlantis base. That's one way they could get around that whole CoC thing, I guess.

As for Sam returning to the SGC...I personally think she and Jack would have had a long discussion about it before she went back. I could see Jack resisting having her go there...while she would want to be with her team if they were going to go up against another intractable enemy. He'd relent, of course, because duty called...but I don't think he would like it very much. Hence his giving Landry a hard time on the phone might have been as much truth as his unique form of jesting....

Just MHO.

[Sarai]

Night everyone ((((((Ship Family)))))) Thanks for all your lovely words of support.

And just in case anyone wanted to know Little Pieces of Her Heart is now completely finished and uploaded onto ff.net.

[ses110]

I agree. I can image Jacks' reaction when he found out Sam was going back to the SGC. Jack probably wanted to run and strangle the Ori himself. IMO TPTB did a horrible job in explaining Jack's new role. I'm not sure they even explainded it and this is after RCC said Jack would still be very much alive in the SGC Universe. Maybe RCC was talking about an alternate Universe.

[Chocolatequeen]

But does that count as canon? I thought to be canon, it had to be in the show?!?!?!?!?

I'd call it grey area. I know of a Harry Potter website that has different grades of canon: the books are Canon A, anything from her website is Canon B, the movies are Canon C... I don't remember if there's anything else. The point of that is that if something said in Grade B Canon contradicts something said in Grade A Canon, you go with Grade A. (And yes, it does happen.)

In light of that grading system, I'd say that things JM says on his blog are canon, but not as hard canon as what's actually on the show. One caveat of that is that if they later change their minds, they can ignore what they've said on blogs and in interviews, because it's not as set in stone as what's aired.

I bet that was way more of an answer than you wanted... *hides*

Night everyone ((((((Ship Family)))))) Thanks for all your lovely words of support.

And just in case anyone wanted to know Little Pieces of Her Heart is now completely finished and uploaded onto ff.net.

Awesome! I'm looking forward to reading it when I get home in an hour.

[Nolamom]

Hi all,

Finally - I get some time to play...thought I'd jump right in rather than catch up on everything...

<snip>
I could go on but I have to go... have fun, Shippers!

I always enjoy reading Rachel's posts - so insightful.

[Traveler Enroute1]

Hi all,

Finally - I get some time to play...thought I'd jump right in rather than catch up on everything...

Spoiler:

I always think Jack and Sara's marriage was a pretty good, normal marriage; the usual arguments and issues - maybe partly caused by his absences and military bravado/communication skills but a good marriage that would have lasted the distance had Charlie lived. But I think Charlie's death and the circumstances of Charlie's death shatter the marriage completely. He blames himself; he doesn't want her forgiveness. In the movie, there is an air of bitterness in the couples' interaction; he feels unworthy of his life, of her, enough that it doesn't matter to him that they are still married in name when he heads off to Abydos on the suicide mission.

I've always got the impression that in COTG when Jack briefly talks to Daniel about it, there is the suggestion that Jack returned from Abydos willing to look at repairing his marriage only to find Sara gone (because she was unable to deal with him being the way he was about Charlie) and came to the conclusion that it was for the best - that she might have forgiven him Charlie but it would always be there unforgotten - the elephant in their marriage - and maybe he deserved to be alone given what had happened.

So, I do think in CL he still loved Sara - as soon as he knows she could be in danger he reacts. Their interaction at the hospital is one of deep caring and love. Yet, that end scene at the hospital is very much a goodbye scene. It's a 'we were good together but now its over' moment. Its a recognition by them both that that part of their lives is over.

In BC I tend to think Jack is writing to Sara because I tend to think he was leaving her everything when he died - at that point and with no evidence to the contrary, he has no other family to leave his belongings to - he and the team are bonded but they're not an automatic choice to leave the remnants of a life - Sara's probably the only choice he has. It may also have been a goodbye note that explains why its her, a note saying do what you want with it all...it's tying up the loose ends because he's about to die. And there may well have been a sentimental motive in leaving everything to her too - she was his wife and he loved her, still cared for her.

But by Solitudes, I rather think Sara was definitely past in Jack's mind rather than future but I don't think he's thinking Sam's the future either at this point. Jack's delirious when he calls Sam 'Sara'; he's in pain, confused, completely out of it with a warm womanly body cuddling into him; his first reaction probably is that its someone he knows such as the woman who used to be his wife not a junior officer under his command - no matter how much he might find her attractive. So I put that moment down to Jack's brain going to the easiest answer for who it was rather than any significance in him missing Sara herself.

But then I tend to agree that Jack and Sam wasn't love at first sight as it was an enormous attraction and a touch thereafter of falling deeply in like. I also think Sam spends much of S1 trying to prove herself to Jack and while I think she has flashes where she thinks of him as being attractive and likes him enormously, I think any self-awareness of how much she's finding him attractive, liking him, coming to care about him, would have been for Sam to have pulled back and gone 'woah there Sam; he's your CO; what are you thinking?'

However, I also think Solitudes is a turning point for them in that I think there would have been a huge bond between the two of them - and only the two of them - on their experience. And I think he's starting after Solitudes to consider Sam as something slightly more so by the time Politics arrives, his attention is caught on Daniel's 'you and Sam were engaged' and his only reaction is 'but it's against regulations' as though he's thought about it and come to the conclusion about why it can't happen.

I also think Jack is very aware in ITOD of how much Sam has come to mean to him personally. He's distraught at the idea of her dying, wipes away a tear. So I think Jack works out that he might care about her more than he should way before S3 - but I think he buries it in order to continue - probably berates himself and promises himself he won't do anything to hurt her career. Just as I think through S2 she's dealing with Jolinar and Martouf but starting to care more and more about him. Enough that by the finale of S2, beginning of S3, she's breaking orders to rescue him and he allows himself to show how much she means to him by hugging her to bits in the aftermath for more reasons than being cold.

I could go on but I have to go... have fun, Shippers!

Right on all points, thanks for saying it so well. I always considered Sam to be working on her 'place' on SG-1, proving herself to a tough, seasoned colonel early on. She and Jack were obviously sizing each other up in all aspects, I think, including appeal. In a way, Jack was probably proving himself to her, too; that he could allow her the chance to show what she could do and access her fairly. Both proved these things to each other and I believe their respect deepened over the course of deadly missions and narrow escapes. And of course Sam's penchant for pulling 'something out of her...head' to save the universe (and him) probably sealed his attraction to her.

I came across something on the Pink Raygun site that came out last year and it so made me think of Sam and Jack. It's an article called "8 Simple Rules for Surviving SciFi." ( If you haven't had the pleasure, find it at http://www.pinkraygun.com/2007/03/07...rviving-scifi/)

According to these rules, Sam had a close call with Pete! As for Rule 2, it should be amended to say "marry the right person" or face dire consequences, 'cause in 2010 she married Joe and that happened. My take? Sam's gotta marry/be married to Jack or *gasp* it's curtains! (One comment did give Sam props for having survived Pete and other purported pitfalls; scroll down to AMY'S comment under the article.)

Just sayin', guess I'm like Rachel500: having been here so long I just gush out the Sam/Jack love in one burst! And used up my free time, dang. Try to catch up some more; but wrestling with another fic and it's taking its toll. Later, Ship Family.