Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread

[hopalong]

On a special request... More Jack's pics for LAD.

Gah! I can feel my resolve to stay out of the gutter slipping even further...

[JenniferJF]

Holy Hannah! It was only three days ago I reached the milestone of 1000 posts. This is now my 1100 post. Wow! Three days. New record for me.

Congratulations!!!

Great post, as usual, Rachel. Some comments:
(Spoilers also for length)

Spoiler:

and the only Jack 'other' I watch willingly is Kerry and only because she lasts so short a time and admirably moves aside.

Ironically, I made the comment to Eve yesterday that Kerry and Pete prove Jack has better taste in women than Sam has in men... I like Kerry because I think she helped show Jack that young, smart, and capable Sam wasn't completely crazy for thinking she was in love with him Going back to an idea I got from Dorothy L. Sayers, one of my favorite authors, Kerry is in many ways Sam's best friend!

I don't think Sam is entirely desperate in Chimera.<cut> I think she was surprised to find she liked Pete

Yes, I agree. I didn't mean to imply she didn't have feelings for Pete. I just meant she seemed desperate to make the *situation* work, and Pete got caught (although willingly) in the middle.

I think she loved his attentiveness to her and being treated like an attractive woman because she hadn't had that in her life for a long time.

I think this is key to why she lets it get as far as it did. As I've referred to before, she never felt that any of the other Highly Important men in her life, Jack and Jacob, really valued her femininity. Of course, Jack would have sawed off his right arm to be able to openly express his regard for that aspect of Sam, but he was prevented, both by regulations and his regard for her physical and emotional welfare, from doing so. She was so desperate (there's that word again ) for that attentiveness -- for the opportunity to just 'be a woman', that she couldn't help fall for it... at least initially.

but I think when Pete takes her to the dance and she sees what she really wants (to grow old with the man she loves, to be with someone in a real relationship that stands the test of time) she gets sad and more is suddenly reminded of the lonely life stretching out before her because she feels she can't be with Jack that way. And I do think the rush to the bedroom that happens at the end of the date stems from her sudden desperation to block out the sadness her real feelings prompt

This is brilliant, Rachel. I think you nailed it on the head here. I had never so closely connected *what* Pete and Sam were doing on their date with her later actions. Like I said, brilliant

although I think she consciously believes she's just taking the next expected step in what was a very romantic date (actually her mind is still thinking in the hallway scene because she gives him an instruction),

I think Sam was always in charge in her relationship with Pete, probably because he had more emotionally at stake than she did. While I can't put my mind on one specific reason, except the changes in Jack and Sam's individual demeanors and the way they act around each other after Threads (though that scene in Daniel's lab at the end of Moebius is a prime example), I like to think she's learned to let go of control and has been issuing far fewer orders in certain areas lately -- and is quite happy with that and with her Alpha Male

<snip> I think she's stunned at his hissy fit and I think because she's not used to being with someone, her first thought is to wonder what the hell she did (rather than determining he's a petulant idiot) and she broods on it.

Really, Sam broods you say?

Since when?

Since I first met you...

You see, normally I’m a very cautious person and I tend to think things through…

c’mere…



Couldn’t resist! I think her brooding is the key problem… If she just went with her feelings, they’d have been together after D&C, at least!

<<cut>>
But up until the moment he proposes in Affinity I don't think she's actually still taking their relationship all that seriously (which is why she is so quick to understand the New Order Fifth created fantasy with Pete is just that).

Yes, she is also genuinely surprised by the proposal. For some reason, she *still* finds it hard to believe any man would care enough to do that, despite all the men who have. Probably because of the one man who hasn’t <sigh>.

I think she is enjoying being part of a couple but is happy that its relatively long distance and quite honestly, how often can she be seeing him really

I think this is why in RE:

Spoiler:

Her obvious understanding and empathy when Martouf mentions the difficulty in long distance relationships is NOT because of Pete but because of her long distance relationship with Jack ?.

I do think RepliCarter in Gemini basically rips away all of Sam's delusions about who she really does love and the feelings she's trying to suppress and I think from that moment, Sam is already reconsidering her decision. <cut> After her father's death and assured of Jack's feelings for her, she finally breaks it off with Pete because he has never really been what she wanted.

I think it’s interesting that according to the audio commentary, Replicarters words to Sam in Gemini were added deliberately by, if memory serves, Robert Cooper himself, and if this is true, Sam’s “Not Exactly” was added deliberately by Robert Cooper as well, we may have a far bigger ‘ship’ friend than we’d previously thought, confirming my little theory that the ‘ship’ has been pushed aside more because of sci-fi net execs than the wishes of ‘our’ TPTB…

As to the rest, I obviously agree based on my sig alone, though I would like to add I’ve always appreciated the parallels between Grace and Threads, especially the last Grace scene when Sam *almost* tells Jack why she’s thanking him and doesn’t, thus leading to angst and Pete, and Threads when she finally tells him all he needs to do is be there for her, leading to ‘Always’ and Jack.

Still, all said and done, I would have preferred him to have taken Kerry's approach and just got out of the way instead of proposing…

Which is again, why Jack has better taste in women than Sam in Men

And Jennifer, I've just caught up with the bridge (I'd love to know how I missed 6 chapters), and the Lincoln Bedroom was a very cheeky reference!

Yes. Well. The Lincoln Bedroom. Because, you know, they deserve it. They *did* help free all those Jaffa slaves. Guess where the next chapter takes place? I really need a double blink emoticon <sigh>

[SamO'Neill]

Holy Hannah! It was only three days ago I reached the milestone of 1000 posts. This is now my 1100 post. Wow! Three days. New record for me.


Sam: Why aren't you surprise, sir?
Jack: Nothing to be surprise about, Major. She was talking about us.



Hmm, something shippy . . . something shippy . . . something shippy . . .




And,


I should have gone to bed hours ago!

Congratulations on 1,100 Posts,

Sasusc!!

[hope leslie hermnharry]

So, I haven't quite got the hang of multi-quote so I'm just going to jump right in on the whole Chimera/Pete/Sam man friends discussion...

Spoilers for length

Spoiler:

I do feel sorry for Pete too (partially because of how badly he is written and partially because ultimately his only crime is to love a woman who doesn't love him back). Having said that, the only Sam 'other' I watch willingly is Orlin and only in Ascension (it might have something to do with SPF who plays him being incredibly cute) and the only Jack 'other' I watch willingly is Kerry and only because she lasts so short a time and admirably moves aside.

I don't think Sam is entirely desperate in Chimera. I think certainly at the beginning, I think she has made a determined decision to move on from Jack post-Grace hallucinations and accepted the blind date as a 'I'm really going to do this and give it a try.' I think she was surprised to find she liked Pete; that he was quite a sweet, funny guy (in a quirky kind of way) and I think she loved his attentiveness to her and being treated like an attractive woman because she hadn't had that in her life for a long time. I think during their early dates (whatever went before the coffee shop, the coffee shop and the movie date) she was just enjoying the attention, and revelling in someone openly declaring how much they liked her. I think she figured it wasn't serious (and is very quick to say this to Jack in the elevator); that she was just having some romantic (but not sexual) fun while this guy was in town and when he left it would be over - she is a little disconcerted when he tells her he's staying around a while longer.

For me, it changes with the dancing date. I do think she approaches it as fun, enjoying dressing up and getting the gobsmacked reaction she wanted (always good for a girl's ego) but I think when Pete takes her to the dance and she sees what she really wants (to grow old with the man she loves, to be with someone in a real relationship that stands the test of time) she gets sad and more is suddenly reminded of the lonely life stretching out before her because she feels she can't be with Jack that way. And I do think the rush to the bedroom that happens at the end of the date stems from her sudden desperation to block out the sadness her real feelings prompt although I think she consciously believes she's just taking the next expected step in what was a very romantic date (actually her mind is still thinking in the hallway scene because she gives him an instruction), and she does use a very willing Pete (who I'm sure was hoping for that result at the end of the night when all said and done).

But I also think the physical intimacy changes things for Sam. I think the pillow talk, Sam is making an effort to move into real intimacy with Pete because she thinks she has to because they have moved their relationship onto a sexual level. I think she's stunned at his hissy fit and I think because she's not used to being with someone, her first thought is to wonder what the hell she did (rather than determining he's a petulant idiot) and she broods on it. I do think she thinks she's failed in some way at having a relationship at that point (not good for her ego when she was looking for validation that she could build something outside of the SGC) and comes to the naive conclusion that had she been able to confide in him about her work everything would be fine. When he gets injured, I think her concern about his not dying overrides everything else for a while but I do think there was a huge fight when she found out about the back ground check.

She obviously gives him a second chance (he mentions in Affinity that she forgave him stalking her) and they progress. But up until the moment he proposes in Affinity I don't think she's actually still taking their relationship all that seriously (which is why she is so quick to understand the New Order Fifth created fantasy with Pete is just that). I think she is enjoying being part of a couple but is happy that its relatively long distance and quite honestly, how often can she be seeing him really (I also think in New Order her comment to Teal'c about saying goodbye is her trying to convince herself about the relationship because deep down she knows she isn't in love with him) She is stunned by his proposal. On Pete's side I think he proposes because he's afraid he's losing her and its a desperate attempt to keep her. I think he's just as stunned as the audience when she accepts (and I do think she accepts because she thinks she should if they're in a relationship and she wants to make a success of it rather than because she wants to.)

I do think RepliCarter in Gemini basically rips away all of Sam's delusions about who she really does love and the feelings she's trying to suppress and I think from that moment, Sam is already reconsidering her decision. I think when he buys her the house in Threads and her father's lukewarm reaction to him, it finally hits her what a mistake she is making and what she actually should have done in the first place after Grace - talk to Jack about their feelings and whether there was a chance for them. After her father's death and assured of Jack's feelings for her, she finally breaks it off with Pete because he has never really been what she wanted. I do feel sorry for Pete but I think at this point he reveals he always knew and decided to take the risk anyway because he loved her. Still, all said and done, I would have preferred him to have taken Kerry's approach and just got out of the way instead of proposing...

Bravo!!!!Exquisite post...I wanna green ya but I have no idea how....consider yourself greened my friend...WOW

[JenniferJF]

Bravo!!!!Exquisite post...I wanna green ya but I have no idea how....consider yourself greened my friend...WOW

Click on the scales between the number and the caution sign in the upper right corner of her post. Please do,because it won't let me green her and she deserves it for that one!!!

[hope leslie hermnharry]

Click on the scales between the number and the caution sign in the upper right corner of her post. Please do,because it won't let me green her and she deserves it for that one!!!

Thanks for the tip...I just did...LOL

Congratulations on 1,100 Posts, Sasusc...

[hopalong]

Oh, yeah! I did make a milestone! Thanks!

Congratulations!

and

Congratulations Sasusc!

[JenniferJF]

Before I leave for work, today's slides (decided to do a few a day instead of all at once this week These are finally shippy again, probably because Sam and Jack are actually in the same room! :

[starlover]

Holy Hannah! It was only three days ago I reached the milestone of 1000 posts. This is now my 1100 post. Wow! Three days. New record for me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...closercopy.jpg
Sam: Why aren't you surprise, sir?
Jack: Nothing to be surprise about, Major. She was talking about us.



Hmm, something shippy . . . something shippy . . . something shippy . . .


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...hknellbtsk.jpg

And,
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...s_edited-1.jpg

I should have gone to bed hours ago!

i like your pics and

Congrats on 1,100

[dipsofjazz]

In fact, most of the episode she looks uncomfortable about the whole thing. Even though she and Jack aren't together together, it's almost like she's cheating on him, and she knows it.

And yet she still sleeps with him.

Sam did look sad during those scenes.I'm sure she was thinking about Jack after Pete's comment.Sam and Jack can never be truly happy with anyone else while they never had a chance to be together.They will always wonder what it would be like to be together.Pete could have been the greatest guy in the world and it would not have mattered.Same goes for Kerry.

If they had remained with and Kerry, I think they would have always wondered what it would have been like with each other.

Ouch! These photos of Sam with hurt my eyes! I'm not sure that Sam is feeling regret (it hurts to say this) as much as there are romantic feelings awakened in her. And very confused feelings. Then we suffered through Season 8 until she came to her senses!

Boy, did we suffer. TPTB really piled on the agony with the stupid engagement.

k, let's see how much i've grown to like pete.... still thinking.... thinking some more....

k, i've got the answer!

ZERO

buh bye.
sally

Hehehe. I'm with you Sal. Nothing will make me like Pete.

[dipsofjazz]

I have to admit that I do agree with you. If TPTB ever intended for us to like , having him stalk Sam was entirely the wrong way of going about it. Even though he'd seriously annoyed me during some of his episodes, I did feel very slightly sorry for him in Threads (at least after I'd watched it a few hundred times)

He was introduced badly and his story was one big plot-hole after another.
I don't feel in the least bit sorry for him in Threads, as he behaved like a jerk when he met Jacob. Then there's the whole house buying thing.
I'm just thankful that he's out of Sam's life (and ours!).

[Rachel500]

Great post, as usual, Rachel. Some comments:
(Spoilers also for length)
[spoiler]
<snipped>

I think this is why in RE:

Spoiler:

Her obvious understanding and empathy when Martouf mentions the difficulty in long distance relationships is NOT because of Pete but because of her long distance relationship with Jack ?.

Yes, in RE...

Spoiler:

I definitely think her understanding and empathy is because of Jack not because of Pete and I think this is the difference between her two relationships: with Pete she's actually happy with the idea of it being long distance but with Jack she's resigned to it being long distance but not at all *happy* about it. I always think in S9 Sam agreed to return to the SGC permanently only grudgingly out of her sense of duty then because she really wanted to be there.

Bravo!!!!Exquisite post...I wanna green ya but I have no idea how....consider yourself greened my friend...WOW

Thank you!

[dipsofjazz]

I have to admit, I laugh and cheer when she dumps him. I don't really feel bad about it...should I?

It as a glorious day when he left! You shouldn't feel bad about that (I don't), for it was a story that shouldn't have gone on as long as it did.
Remember, when there was the outcry about Pete (and not just from shippers), Cooper just dismissed us all as having 'issues'. In my opinion, we got more of Pete from TPTB just to spite us for having the audacity to hate this storyline and character.

[dipsofjazz]

I'm happy to announce the posting of my newest fanfic. It's called Transcending Time, and you can find it here:

http://mary-buc252.freeservers.com/T...ing%20Time.htm

I think it's also on fanfiction.net (it's my first post there, so I'm not totally sure it worked <g>).

It's not very long - about nine pages - but I hope you'll like it anyway. And yes, of course it's shippy!

Great story, and you have to do a sequel.

[RepliCartertje]

Ah... busy weekend. Now I have many pages to catch up on...

I got Sims this weekend! I've already made my O'Neill family!

One of the first couples I made when I got Sims. When I got Sims 2, the O'Neills was the first couple I made. Jack stayed home with the kids while Sam went off to work.

Looks like every shipper who has sims or sims 2 has a family O'Neill eh...I mean I also have my own little family O'Neill although my first 2 families the O'Neills died of age
Now I have a 3rd family and they are both at college atm...I started from there...Sam is doing science and O'Neill is doing the same but he goes out more...While Sam really studies But for her there is also some time to do other stuff don't worry

I did not just write a whole post about Sims 2 did I lol

Will this help?

Love this pic Really I love it just got me mesmerised...and ooops I just quoted it

Trying something new. Edited my Broca Divide slides into a movie, along with some full screen pics, and posted on MGM. If you get a chance, let me know what y'all think... I plan on doing one for MiB before the week is out

That is awsome Jenn...You really did an awsome job with it...I love it so where is the one from Message in a bottle

Btw if you got home from work I made those screencaps for you


one last thing: thanks everyone for liking the badge and for the congratulations on my milestone...

CONGRATS TO EVERYONE WHO REACHED A MILESTONE

I have seen a few today