Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread

[gwenhwyfar]

Yes, you're right, I got the writers of the episodes mixed up. I still believe PdL had a lot of influence with what happened, ie. the continuation of a character that should have been a one-off.
Now....don't get me started about Cooper!

of course he had influence! The actor is his brother!!!

I hated both these episodes. Chimera is full of plot holes, plus, as I mentioned before, I found the sex scene out of place in Stargate. Affinity is just utter dreck!

I don't even remember Affinity. And the sex (not love) scene was totally out of place! I thought they had learned in season 4 that sex appeal is not needed.

I don't care that Pete was a catalyst in getting Sam and Jack together. The character is badly written, and the whole situation went on for longer than it should have.

Anyway, thankfully that's all in the past, and we can now hope that things will go our way in S10.

I don't think he was a catalyst for anything! If it had just been left with Jacob saying he same thing it probably would have had the same effect.

[sueKay]

OT...but THANK YOU to everyone who greened me for my piccy of the ducklings

And yes, I did take the piccy

[stargate barbie]

I don't balme PDL...I blame ALL TP! The introduction of Pete IMO, almost destroyed not just the ship, but the character of the Sam we have grown to love.

i think that the show needed pete, or should i say the idea of a pete to move the storyline along, but i think that they screwed up in writing him. for the first time they wrote sam as what men want a woman to be, rather than how she is, and to add to this, they actually didn't think that how pete acted in chimera warranted any negative reaction. i was disgusted that sam didn't dump him in the episode, and even by the time we got to threads i just couldn't feel sorry for the guy. my attitude was that she should have dumped him way before this.

pete was a neccessary evil for the relationship. if he wasn't there, they never would have moved out of the stalemate they had started, and neither one of them would have been sure of the other's feelings. but they could have written him as a normal, decent guy. and given him a lot less screen time. most shippers don't even want the s/j relationship to have that much on screen attention, and non shippers want even less, so how they thought people would want more than half a show devoted to some randomer i just can't explain.

i hated that the a plot of chimera was devoted to a characters personal life and the b plot was the goa'uldy one. i hated that they split it evenly in affinity (bleuach!) between a and b, to the point that i couldn't tell (and honestly didn't care) which was which. that one actually had 2 b plots FCOL!

i don't think that pete almost destroyed the ship or any characters other than his own. i think that sam made a bad choice, but i think when it comes to her personal life, she's pretty stupid. i think jack is too to an extent.

i don't blame PDL for anything other than being stuck writing a story/episode that sucked in the first place. apparently he didn't even know until after he was cast that his bro was playing pete. and if you liked your brother, would you really want to give him a role like that knowing that there was a large group of fans who were probably going to hate him right away?

and i think we seem to forget that PDL is one of the considerably more shippy members of TPTB. eg, beneath the surface, metamorphosis, evolution, threads, mobius. (listen to the dvd commentaries to see/hear what i mean) and thats just a small example.

i don't want to go all preachy here, and i don't mean to, i just feel its important for someone to offer up the other side of the discussion here. they gave us the ship. we might not have enjoyed parts of the journey to the resolution, and some of us may not have been too happy with the resolution, but i for one was.

personally, i thought we got what we asked for. most of us asked for fishing, because everyone knew what that meant. i think with the exception of pete, they did the best job they could, and they did a much better job than most shows do. (and with some of TPTB i get very confused as to their motivations, and often find myself thinking that they (and by they i mean he) are not on board the ship, so i do sort of agree with you here)

hopefully i'm right and we'll get something more next season. and hopefully it'll be happy, positive ship.

but thats just me. your friendly neighbourhood devils advocate.

(whoa! long post)

[stargate barbie]

OT...but THANK YOU to everyone who greened me for my piccy of the ducklings

And yes, I did take the piccy

then i'll say it again.

aaaaawwwwwwwww.

[SG1Poz]

In response to Sally's question.

I think they are together and not married. As I mentioned before I predict they will at least imply that they are having long, fulfilling phone sex..I mean calls during the past year. Personally I would like to watch Jack (or Sam) propose. I'd like to see that more than the wedding! That would be SQUEEEEEEE worthy in itself.

Thinking of worthy and proposals and I know it's been discussed before but we're so close now, I can feel it in my gut. Who do you think would initiate the question and how? Lets' see some examples Shippers This should be fun

Scenario: Jack's cabin. Sam and Jack are snuggling in front of the fireplace both entranced by the flicker of the flames blue, yellow and orange.
Jack: Sam?
Sam: Jack?
Jack: Sam?
Sam: Jaaack?
Jack: Nevermind
Sam: Nevermind what?
Jack: Forget I asked.
Sam: You didn't ask.
Jack: Yes I did!
Sam in a sing song tone: No.. you..didn't!
Jack: Will You?
Sam: Will I what?
Jack: Marry?
Sam teasingly says: Marry who?
They both look deeply into each others eyes.
Simultaneously they both ask: Me? ...and again together they say, Yes! We then see a kiss to end all kisses!

[scjon]

i think that the show needed pete, or should i say the idea of a pete to move the storyline along, but i think that they screwed up in writing him. for the first time they wrote sam as what men want a woman to be, rather than how she is, and to add to this, they actually didn't think that how pete acted in chimera warranted any negative reaction. i was disgusted that sam didn't dump him in the episode, and even by the time we got to threads i just couldn't feel sorry for the guy. my attitude was that she should have dumped him way before this.

pete was a neccessary evil for the relationship. if he wasn't there, they never would have moved out of the stalemate they had started, and neither one of them would have been sure of the other's feelings. but they could have written him as a normal, decent guy. and given him a lot less screen time. most shippers don't even want the s/j relationship to have that much on screen attention, and non shippers want even less, so how they thought people would want more than half a show devoted to some randomer i just can't explain.

i hated that the a plot of chimera was devoted to a characters personal life and the b plot was the goa'uldy one. i hated that they split it evenly in affinity (bleuach!) between a and b, to the point that i couldn't tell (and honestly didn't care) which was which. that one actually had 2 b plots FCOL!

i don't think that pete almost destroyed the ship or any characters other than his own. i think that sam made a bad choice, but i think when it comes to her personal life, she's pretty stupid. i think jack is too to an extent.

i don't blame PDL for anything other than being stuck writing a story/episode that sucked in the first place. apparently he didn't even know until after he was cast that his bro was playing pete. and if you liked your brother, would you really want to give him a role like that knowing that there was a large group of fans who were probably going to hate him right away?

and i think we seem to forget that PDL is one of the considerably more shippy members of TPTB. eg, beneath the surface, metamorphosis, evolution, threads, mobius. (listen to the dvd commentaries to see/hear what i mean) and thats just a small example.

i don't want to go all preachy here, and i don't mean to, i just feel its important for someone to offer up the other side of the discussion here. they gave us the ship. we might not have enjoyed parts of the journey to the resolution, and some of us may not have been too happy with the resolution, but i for one was.

personally, i thought we got what we asked for. most of us asked for fishing, because everyone knew what that meant. i think with the exception of pete, they did the best job they could, and they did a much better job than most shows do. (and with some of TPTB i get very confused as to their motivations, and often find myself thinking that they (and by they i mean he) are not on board the ship, so i do sort of agree with you here)

hopefully i'm right and we'll get something more next season. and hopefully it'll be happy, positive ship.

but thats just me. your friendly neighbourhood devils advocate.

(whoa! long post)

Great post! I know what you mean and it's good to have a devil's advocate!

[stargate barbie]

In response to Sally's question.

I think they are together and not married. As I mentioned before I predict they will at least imply that they are having long, fulfilling phone sex..I mean calls during the past year. Personally I would like to watch Jack (or Sam) propose. I'd like to see that more than the wedding! That would be SQUEEEEEEE worthy in itself

lol! i too think they've been having a lot of uum, phone... calls.

and i do think that they are together, and seeing each other once every month or so. i can see an onscreen proposal working, but not an on screen wedding.

i think the proposal, coming from jack at least, would be very casual in delivery. i can't see sam taking the initiative, but i can maybe see jack being somewhat hesitant in proposing, thinking that she might not be ready yet, and sam getting frustrated with him not asking and wondering why. maybe daniel tells her that he's afraid she'll say no, or maybe isn't ready yet or something so she thinks "to hell with this" and asks him. maybe.

not sure how that senario would play out on screen though, more fanficcy than anything. but the first one, with jack asking casually i think might translate on screen well enough.

although just further confirmation that they are actually together would be great as far as i'm concerned. maybe if they definitley knew it was the last episode there could be some sort of mention of the team going their separate ways or leaving the sgc or retiring from it, and teal'c could mention that he's heading off to see his first grandchild then sam could throw in some mention of being pregnant or something, but only at the end of the last episode.

i'm rambling now. to cut a long post short, i think they are together but not yet married. and as long as we get a few more "not exactly"'s, and a little bit more now knowing that

Spoiler:

jack is coming back for a couple of eps

then i'm very happy with that. an "actually i'm involved with someone" or an "actually i'm in a relationship and i'm very happy" would be alright by me.

[stargate barbie]

Great post! I know what you mean and it's good to have a devil's advocate!

thanks, for a while there i thought i might be chased out of shipper town with pitchforks and flaming torches.

maybe i should ask for my membership card now before i'm not allowed to have one. can those things be revoked once issued?

(i'm just not sure i want my avatar to appear on it )

[dipsofjazz]

I don't want us to get bogged down discussing these episodes again, as we've been over them a gazillion times (at least), but I'll reply to your post.

i think that the show needed pete, or should i say the idea of a pete to move the storyline along, but i think that they screwed up in writing him. for the first time they wrote sam as what men want a woman to be, rather than how she is, and to add to this, they actually didn't think that how pete acted in chimera warranted any negative reaction. i was disgusted that sam didn't dump him in the episode, and even by the time we got to threads i just couldn't feel sorry for the guy. my attitude was that she should have dumped him way before this.

I agree with you. The idea could have worked, perhaps with a mention now and then that Sam was dating someone, maybe seeing him once on the show, and then her dumping him because she realises that she really does love Jack.

pete was a neccessary evil for the relationship. if he wasn't there, they never would have moved out of the stalemate they had started, and neither one of them would have been sure of the other's feelings. but they could have written him as a normal, decent guy. and given him a lot less screen time. most shippers don't even want the s/j relationship to have that much on screen attention, and non shippers want even less, so how they thought people would want more than half a show devoted to some randomer i just can't explain.

You're right, there was far too much screen time devoted to this. Of course, remember the uproar from fans about this episode, and the quote from Cooper saying that we had 'issues'. I really think that this wouldn't have gone on as long as it did if there hadn't been such an outcry about the episode....and remember it wasn't just shippers who disliked it. It got people talking about Stargate.

i hated that the a plot of chimera was devoted to a characters personal life and the b plot was the goa'uldy one. i hated that they split it evenly in affinity (bleuach!) between a and b, to the point that i couldn't tell (and honestly didn't care) which was which. that one actually had 2 b plots FCOL!

Both episodes were very badly written.

i don't think that pete almost destroyed the ship or any characters other than his own. i think that sam made a bad choice, but i think when it comes to her personal life, she's pretty stupid. i think jack is too to an extent.

Again, I think the writing is at fault here. I think Sam behaved out of character for not dumping him after the mess up at the stake-out. (not to mention the background check)

i don't blame PDL for anything other than being stuck writing a story/episode that sucked in the first place. apparently he didn't even know until after he was cast that his bro was playing pete. and if you liked your brother, would you really want to give him a role like that knowing that there was a large group of fans who were probably going to hate him right away?

We'll never know how DdL got the part, but I'm sure a lot has to do with who you know (or are related to). These guys thought they were writing good shows, and couldn't understand why people disliked them.

and i think we seem to forget that PDL is one of the considerably more shippy members of TPTB. eg, beneath the surface, metamorphosis, evolution, threads, mobius. (listen to the dvd commentaries to see/hear what i mean) and thats just a small example.

i don't want to go all preachy here, and i don't mean to, i just feel its important for someone to offer up the other side of the discussion here. they gave us the ship. we might not have enjoyed parts of the journey to the resolution, and some of us may not have been too happy with the resolution, but i for one was.

Sure, PdL wrote shippy episodes, but he's also the one that wrote Affinity. Why did it have to go as far as an engagement? We could have got our resolution without all this mess.

personally, i thought we got what we asked for. most of us asked for fishing, because everyone knew what that meant. i think with the exception of pete, they did the best job they could, and they did a much better job than most shows do. (and with some of TPTB i get very confused as to their motivations, and often find myself thinking that they (and by they i mean he) are not on board the ship, so i do sort of agree with you here)

hopefully i'm right and we'll get something more next season. and hopefully it'll be happy, positive ship.

but thats just me. your friendly neighbourhood devils advocate.
(whoa! long post)

Well, we got fishing, along with Teal'c and Daniel, but we were never really told that they were actually together. Again they leave it up to us how we interpret it.
This is why, in S10, they have to show us for certain that Sam and Jack are together.

I'm sorry for the long post, but I just wanted to reply.
Thank goodness we don't have to worry about it any more, and that, hopefully, our ship will come in soon.

[gwenhwyfar]

[/snip]
Well, we got fishing, along with Teal'c and Daniel, but we were never really told that they were actually together. Again they leave it up to us how we interpret it.
This is why, in S10, they have to show us for certain that Sam and Jack are together.

I'm sorry for the long post, but I just wanted to reply.
Thank goodness we don't have to worry about it any more, and that, hopefully, our ship will come in soon.

And...it looked like they had been there a while before Danny and Teal'c got there... Much fanfic fodder from that one little scene!

[dipsofjazz]

And...it looked like they had been there a while before Danny and Teal'c got there... Much fanfic fodder from that one little scene!

Oh yes! In my mind they got together long before the other two joined them.

[stargate barbie]

Sure, PdL wrote shippy episodes, but he's also the one that wrote Affinity. Why did it have to go as far as an engagement? We could have got our resolution without all this mess.

i'm not talking about him writing or directing shippy episodes, they do the episodes they are told to do, and they put their own slant on it as much as they can, but if a story calls for something, thats what goes in it. most of the ones i listed weren't written by him as far as i can remember. for the most part i'm talking about how he directs and especially how he talks about the ship in his commentaries. he sounds like he really does enjoy it and support it.

Well, we got fishing, along with Teal'c and Daniel, but we were never really told that they were actually together. Again they leave it up to us how we interpret it.

but again, as far as i can recall, the majority of shippers before this point said we would love the show to end like this. in fact i remember seeing posts from several people describing a scene so similar to this that you would think they took the idea directly from our thread. there was an outcry from a minority of shippers after chimera saying that we were owed a scene between sam and jack at least as graphic as the one between... ew, i can't even finish that sentence.


it was said all along that fishing meant that they were together. from both us and them. it was implied. and personally leaving it like that suits me fine because i know that if it were sam/someone else that they had decided to persue then i definitely would prefer it to be left open to denial. even after they gave us the fishing scene, in which

Spoiler:

they gave us the two of them alone on the dock, side by side, for long enough for us to figure it out (they even gave us the dialogue "i can't believe we didn't do this years ago") and then, just to make sure nobody got left out, they brought out the boys and had them sit off to one side, leaving our couple alone on the dock with enought privacy for them to talk alone.


and then, when we complained about it, they gave us even more hints that they were together in season 9. by which point you could argue that it was time, after 1.5 seasons of s/j ship in the limelight, to concentrate on new avenues of the show (although some of the ones they chose i could have done without to be honest). we still got 2 or 3 shippy implications.

sorry to keep going on about it, but i really can't understand how people were so disgusted with mobius when its exactly what the majority asked for, or at least what we said we would be happy with. maybe my memory is worse than i thought.

again, sorry to keep going on with this.

PS;

We'll never know how DdL got the part, but I'm sure a lot has to do with who you know (or are related to).

i really don't want to talk about this anymore. can we just agree to disagree on this one? i think its unfair and inappropriate to make accusations like this. it has been stated that PDL had pretty much nothing to do with his brother being cast. you can choose to believe it or not. i get the impression that most shipper choose not to believe it, but i don't think it has a place in discussion here. sorry.

pps,

i hope you don't think i'm picking on you here. you just happen to be the one posting the opinions and responses at the moment that i feel compelled for some reason to reply to. i do respect your opinions and your posts as i do with all shippers.

[Gatetrixer]

i'm not talking about him writing or directing shippy episodes, they do the episodes they are told to do, and they put their own slant on it as much as they can, but if a story calls for something, thats what goes in it. most of the ones i listed weren't written by him as far as i can remember. for the most part i'm talking about how he directs and especially how he talks about the ship in his commentaries. he sounds like he really does enjoy it and support it.



but again, as far as i can recall, the majority of shippers before this point said we would love the show to end like this. in fact i remember seeing posts from several people describing a scene so similar to this that you would think they took the idea directly from our thread. there was an outcry from a minority of shippers after chimera saying that we were owed a scene between sam and jack at least as graphic as the one between... ew, i can't even finish that sentence.


it was said all along that fishing meant that they were together. from both us and them. it was implied. and personally leaving it like that suits me fine because i know that if it were sam/someone else that they had decided to persue then i definitely would prefer it to be left open to denial. even after they gave us the fishing scene, in which

Spoiler:

they gave us the two of them alone on the dock, side by side, for long enough for us to figure it out (they even gave us the dialogue "i can't believe we didn't do this years ago") and then, just to make sure nobody got left out, they brought out the boys and had them sit off to one side, leaving our couple alone on the dock with enought privacy for them to talk alone.


and then, when we complained about it, they gave us even more hints that they were together in season 9. by which point you could argue that it was time, after 1.5 seasons of s/j ship in the limelight, to concentrate on new avenues of the show (although some of the ones they chose i could have done without to be honest). we still got 2 or 3 shippy implications.

sorry to keep going on about it, but i really can't understand how people were so disgusted with mobius when its exactly what the majority asked for, or at least what we said we would be happy with. maybe my memory is worse than i thought.

again, sorry to keep going on with this.

PS;


i really don't want to talk about this anymore. can we just agree to disagree on this one? i think its unfair and inappropriate to make accusations like this. it has been stated that PDL had pretty much nothing to do with his brother being cast. you can choose to believe it or not. i get the impression that most shipper choose not to believe it, but i don't think it has a place in discussion here. sorry.

pps,

i hope you don't think i'm picking on you here. you just happen to be the one posting the opinions and responses at the moment that i feel compelled for some reason to reply to. i do respect your opinions and your posts as i do with all shippers.

Just want to say that yes, fans did want the fishing scene and what it implies. To me TPTB thought(not saying I was completely satisfied) they had given us what we want. They thought we would decide they were together(hey, they were fishing!) or were going to be together and thought they could then, with RDA leaving, not mention it again. (Grr) However, a show should be made for more than fans like us, it should be made also for just people who watch TV and that's all. If these "watchers" got the impression from Threads and Moebius that Jack and Sam were together, then TPTB did succeed. If, however, these fans for the most part ended up confused, they did not.

Just going to add, if RDA had stayed for S9, and TPTB knew it in time, we would not have have Threads and fishing, IMO.

[gwenhwyfar]

Just want to say that yes, fans did want the fishing scene and what it implies. To me TPTB thought(not saying I was completely satisfied) they had given us what we want. They thought we would decide they were together(hey, they were fishing!) or were going to be together and thought they could then, with RDA leaving, not mention it again. (Grr) However, a show should be made for more than fans like us, it should be made also for just people who watch TV and that's all. If these "watchers" got the impression from Threads and Moebius that Jack and Sam were together, then TPTB did succeed. If, however, these fans for the most part ended up confused, they did not.

Just going to add, if RDA had stayed for S9, and TPTB knew it in time, we would not have have Threads and fishing, IMO.

I thought the last scenes in Threads and Moeibus idd imply that they were together. I'm upset they did not follow threw with it

Spoiler:

like the not Exactally and the Martouf disaster

but I've come to expect that from them.

And I liked Moeibus. I thought it was great and more of a tribute to the fans than Wormhole X-Treme (which I thought was more of a tribute to TPTB) and Ripple Effect.

[dipsofjazz]

LOL! I think we've frightened off the other shippers.

I know that many shippers wanted a fishing scene (because we know what it means), but I (and many others) would have liked to have seen something to prove that they were really together as a couple, and not leave it up to us (again) to use our imagination. A quick kiss, or even them holding hands or touching whilst they were on the dock.
(By the way, I'm not too sure that you're correct with saying the majority/minority of shippers. Just in this thread alone we lost many shippers after S8.)

I'm glad you're happy with them implying that Sam and Jack are together after seeing them fishing, but I need more. I don't need to see anything as graphic as the Chimera scene (eeww to that scene), but I really, really want to see a big honkin' kiss!

I don't really count Moebius (apart from the fishing scene again) because most of the ship there was not between our couple.

In S9, what did we really get, ship wise?

Spoiler:

A 'not exactly' and some more implied stuff in Ripple Effect.

Am I missing something?

To me, the ship was never overpowering to the show in general (except for those yucky episodes we talked about earlier), and if these guys could only get their act together, they could write something great for us that would only take a minute out of all the blowing up stuff that they seem to do now.