Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread

[sueKay]

Heya

Made more avatars

snurch away

[stargate barbie]

how many posts do you need to have before you can get a custom avatar?

[Buc252]

I hate to be a doomsayer, but you might as well stick a period after the word happy. I have.

Well, there's a reason I'm not watching anymore, Iris. . .

[sacme]

ok guys, i say don't worry about RE. anything that you might interpret as wrong in terms of the shows canon is very easily explained.

PDL directed this episode. he misinterpreted the script, and put a different slant on it than what was intended. the only other show so far this year that he has done is babylon.

Spoiler:

although i haven't actually seen it yet myself, i think everything in here that might show any sam/other ship was simply in the way it was directed. PDL's interpretation is basically that of a guy who's just been given a script to direct. he obviously wasn't in any meetings with joe to say who initiates the kiss, how do you think she should react and so on.

i think the reason we are getting mixed signals on this one is because of miscommunication. the director has his idea's, the actors have theirs, and the writer has his. and none of them have gone over it and made some common ground on it all.

i'm not saying anything bad about PDL, just that his interpretation of the ep doesn't match that of the original intention. remember, he was one of the guys that helped to start the s/j ship, so lets not be too mean. we can just give him one swift kick to the crotch each and let that be that!

also, based on this, i feel i should warn you all that PDL also directed Stronghold.

I don't know if we can blame it all on PDL.

Spoiler:

When Joe saw the BlackAU kiss, he made sure that it didn't end up in the final cut.

If they didn't like the way something turned out they could have edited it differently. If it goes on the air, then you have to assume, to a certain extent, that it has the full backing of TPTB. Unless of course the whole ep was a joke (on us), then everything is back to the way it was.

ship sistah

[majorsal]

I honestly didn't see any hestitation nor regret before or after the attempted kiss. I said I wasn't going to rant anymore, but that was about the past. I was going to be more positive about the future -- or at least shut up so other people could. But Sam kissing someone else on purpose shakes everything. That was just so wrong. Wwwwhhhhhhhhhyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!

ship sistah

(((((((ship sistah)))))))

i know, i feel the same. this is worse than if they'd done the altsam/altmitchell ship like that deleted scene! this was OUR sam doing this, without any hesitation or regret.

i'll go with amberLM's response: I think someone mentioned it earlier but maybe we will get an 'it was all a dream' sequence a la Dallas. I'm not entirely convinced that the team at the end of Moebius was our reality's!

i like this idea more than what we're getting now! (jack dissing, s/j dissing, sam dissing)

oh, btw, amberlm, i c/ped your above quote to joe mallozzi's blog (and commented on it). i hope you don't mind? i made sure to give you credit for it.

back to ship sistah's comments; i'm trying to find a way of working around this (yes, fanwanking), but i can't find one. the truth is, even if sam is with jack now, she made a move on another guy. old ALMOST boyfriend or not, i didn't like...








sally

[STARGATE7777]

If anyone wants to be cheered up try going over to the thread on Ripple Effect. There are many people who are NOT shippers who feel that the scene with Sam and Martouf was wrong. Many also say they are tired of the "on the fence" attittude of TPTB. The positive that may come out of this season is that many fans are missing Jack so much, miss the "strong" Carter and the team interaction that the J/S ship seems like a small complaint. Most people just want a resolution and following Threads a positive one between Sam and Jack just makes sense.

[stargate barbie]

I don't know if we can blame it all on PDL.

Spoiler:

When Joe saw the BlackAU kiss, he made sure that it didn't end up in the final cut.

If they didn't like the way something turned out they could have edited it differently. If it goes on the air, then you have to assume, to a certain extent, that it has the full backing of TPTB. Unless of course the whole ep was a joke (on us), then everything is back to the way it was.

ship sistah

well as someone who has done some editing in her time, i can say that you really do have to work with what you've got. if the entire ep was shot with a slant on it different to that of the original intension, its going to be very difficult to change it in editing. if there's one phrase on this earth i absolutely dispise its; "fix it in post". *shudder*

on the other hand i do think they could have replaced the sam and martouf scene, unless there was part of it that was essential to the plot.

[yeahsureyabetcha]

Hey minigeek.....i love it! Your point of view makes since to me about Jack and Sam, and I feel better about everything. I choose to go with this line of thought until I see concrete evidence otherwise...thanks!

[majorsal]

i'm not going to use spoiler tags, so please be careful when reading this post.


SPOILERS for s9's ripple effect

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Right. Finally acquired the episode and I have my tuppence worth to add

Firstly, the kiss. The whole damn scene didn't fit in. The way she was lurking behind Martouf, it felt to me like she was planning on trying to kiss him or take a chance or something. Especially with the earlier "curious" scene.

didn't that 'i've missed you' thing that sam said to him just before SHE leaned in to kiss him; didn't that seemed dubbed? you don't even see her face moving when she says it. (i think it might have been added to make sam's motivations make more sense)

and that 'curious' scene makes a LOT more sense with the deleted part kept in. but still, sam's romantic curiousity with martouf through out the ep is disheartening. not unreasonable, considering her jolinar memories and her real affection for martouf, but i wish the writers wouldn't have had it ONCE AGAIN become a sam/other situation. i mean, how many in one bloody season!?

i wish the scene would have played out with 'martouf' leaning in to kiss her and her just looking like a dear in the headlights and not doing anything. then when asgard guy interrupted, it would have ALL been from martouf's desires.

Thirdly, the Scam ship. Had Joe not mentioned it, I don't think I'd have noticed,

me either. well, our sam and mitchell did sit close together, and mitchell did lean in to whisper something to her, but the only notice that really would have made was a *new* comfort level between them. (which i prob wouldn't have liked if it continued)

yeah, sam was weird in this ep.

except for the bit where Sam's going "what? you're just gonna lock them up for three weeks?" The bed bit never even struck me that way, not after JM (hallowed be! we owe that guy some favours) cleaned it up.

what part of the story does sam say that 'lock them up' bit?





sally

[nell]

My PRO SHIPPER Ripple Effect POV.

This is mostly cross posted from my mini review on SAmanda, but I thought I'd post here too. Just the Sam/Jack part.

Spoiler:

I've gone and read a lot of the previous comments regarding Martouf's scenes and those with Janet, and while I agree I'd have loved to see more of them (especially Janet), I think that was my only minor disappointment - and it wasn't even a viable one, more of a wistful "ah, if only there were more time...".

I know some Sam/Jack shippers were upset over the "almost kiss" between Marty and Sam, too, but I look at it this way.

Sam still has those remnant memories from Jolinar inside of her, and she was just beginning to try and reconcile those feelings when Martouf originally died. Bang. Gone - and she was the one who had to kill him. Huge unresolved issues there.

Now, suddenly, she saw him alive again. Put yourself in her shoes. The part of her that is still connected to Jolinar would probably have nearly wept for joy - OH MY GOD, HE'S NOT DEAD!. Think about it. Jolinar and Martouf were were lovers for hundreds of years; she'd have been out of her head with happiness to see him live. And that would definitely impact Sam. Include the fact that Sam really was attracted to Martouf, albeit in a burgeoning way, back then. She'd feel conflicted and happy and confused, and basically way off kilter. Add to that the feelings that anyone who's ever had an "ex" they loved a great deal (but are no longer with) always tends to feel around that person - and regardless of whether she was "with Jack" at this point or not, she definitely might still have kissed Martouf. I didn't have a problem with that at all. I didn't find it OOC, because of that.

One thing I do believe now (more than EVER) is that OUR Sam and OUR Jack are almost certainly together - in THIS reality.

Why?

Well, a few reasons. Not the least of which is the fact that Joe loves to be cryptic. Somesimes that works against the shipper POV, but not in this case, and here's my reasoning why.

In Joe's RE: Deleted Scenes piece up here on gateworkd, there was a part that said: "in the case of "Ripple Effect," I made of point of touching not only "the paths not taken," but "the paths taken" and "the paths to be taken."

I think Joe was trying pretty hard to infer Carter was with Jack in all of the "innuendo" scenes. The very fact he didn't mention Pete; or anyone else for that matter, was respectful to that assumption.

Also, her leaving Martouf, being with someone else in that other reality even *after* they made a go at a 'real' relationship? Who could it possibly be? Sam had far more chemistry and far more attraction to Martouf (IMHO) than she ever did to Pete, which means Pete was not the person she ended up with in Martouf's reality, he couldn't have been. So who was it?

Jack. It had to be Jack. There's no one else.

Joe said himself that he made a specific point to include hints in the script at not only what might have happened in the past, but what might still happen, and what was currently happening. I saw huge hints in this script that lead THIS shipper heart of mine to believe the reason TPTB have been so cloak and dagger with any overt mention of the Sam/Jack ship (in this reality) is because

... THEY'RE ALREADY MARRIED.

I know non shippers won't have seen it that way, but I certainly do. Even moreso when I read that Joe made Peter take that hand-holding scene between Cam and Sam out of the final cut, because he meant to infer a relationship, but "not that" one.

It just seemed like the great spirit of inference and innuendo was working on the Sam/Jack side for this episode.

And it would also explain why they're not writing overt S/J into any of the scripts. It could make for a very cool storyline down the road. Anni and I are on the same page with this, have been for a while, but this episode REALLy reinforced that line of thinking for us.

The spartan few canon hints we've had so far would really corroborate something like that. And hey ... imagine the possibilities once they do drop the bombshell, so to speak??

Married. Heh. Who knew?

mini(ever the shipper)geek

Thanks, mini!!! I'm a firm believer that Sam and Jack are together but your hypothesis is very intriguing

Spoiler:

because I have been nagged by Sam's reply to Agent Barrett in Ex Deus Machina. When Barrett asks Sam, "So, you're single again?" Sam says, "not exactly." My first impression was Sam and Jack are together in a relationship. I was in Shipper Heaven. Then, I thought 'what the frell does not exactly mean?' Now you are hypothesizing that Sam and Jack are married. I say, 'Hey, this is TV. Anything can happen'!!! TPTB could be crazy enough to do that.

Honestly, I don't know what to expect but I haven't given up hope. I haven't pulled the last straw.

[majorsal]

sacme I did not see the episode but from listening to other Shippers and

Spoiler:

seeing the almost Kiss it looks like Sam wanted that Kiss.I do not care if Jack is on another Planet that almost kiss cannot happen.Jack was been great to Sam over the Years.Jack stood by Sam through the whole Pete fiasco when most Guys might have said I'am done with you.I said this before and I'll say it again.If Sam and Jack are not together or broke up TPTB need to tell us because Sam looks horrible right now.TPTB will have a big problem ending things with Sam/Jack after all this Time.After being in Love for 8 Years I cannot see Sam and Jack calling it quits after a couple of Months.Sam and Jack would try everything to make it work IMO.Sam would have had a fit if Jack almost Kissed Laira.It's not hard to see there is a major problem with the Sam character right now.It's up to AT and TPTB to put it right.

i hate to add misery to our already giant misery load, but...

Spoiler:

do you guys remember an interview amanda did when she came back to the show this season where she said (paraphrasing); 'i think sam and jack should get it on once and then realize they're better off as friends'... does anyone wonder if that's what's coming ahead for us?

sally

[sacme]

well as someone who has done some editing in her time, i can say that you really do have to work with what you've got. if the entire ep was shot with a slant on it different to that of the original intension, its going to be very difficult to change it in editing. if there's one phrase on this earth i absolutely dispise its; "fix it in post". *shudder*

on the other hand i do think they could have replaced the sam and martouf scene, unless there was part of it that was essential to the plot.

I agree, shows can stray from what was intended (Pete arc?). But until someone comes out and says, 'sorry, that was crap, we didn't mean for that to have come across that way' (oh please, oh please, oh please ) then we have to accept (for now) what we actually saw on screen was the story they're sticking with. I can't look for different scenarios because I don't like the one they gave me. I'm stuck (for now-- still a bit hopeful for an AU explanation) that our Sam instigated a kiss (and not on the cheek) with AU Martouf.

ship sistah

[minigeek]

i hate to add misery to our already giant misery load, but...

Spoiler:

do you guys remember an interview amanda did when she came back to the show this season where she said (paraphrasing); 'i think sam and jack should get it on once and then realize they're better off as friends'... does anyone wonder if that's what's coming ahead for us?

Nope. Amanda also said that Jack "gets Sam hook line and sinker" in a UK television interview (regarding their euphemism for the two of them going to his cabin and fishing in THREADS/Moebius).

And not for nuthin but..... there's only misery in the load because we're puttin' in there! I saw this episode as a bonus for shippers (yes, because I chose to see it that way, as I outlined in my earlier post), but since no actual declarations were made either way, the only way to see it as a load of misery would be to choose to see it very differently than I saw it, as well. Me? I know the truth.

Sam and Jack are so together. In every reality you'd care to choose. Including this one. ;-)

[sacme]

how many posts do you need to have before you can get a custom avatar?

2001

[stargate barbie]

Amanda also said that Jack "gets Sam hook line and sinker" in a UK television interview (regarding their euphemism for the two of them going to his cabin and fishing in THREADS/Moebius).

ok i'm gonna need more info on this. where? when? details!