Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread

[majorsal]

- *sigh*

- hey, what's wrong, sam?

- the shippers don't love us anymore...

- why do you say that!?

- they've abandoned the thread, they don't care about us anymore!!

- no, sam, that's not it... they're just a bit angsty about our future... they just want to *see* us together, even though we know we're a couple.

- but i miss them...

- hey, shippers, can you hear me!? please come home and make my wife smile.

[DutchIndeed]

*runs in to hug Sam and Jack*
I still love 'em

[Rachel500]

So, some interesting replies to the Hammond question. Not going to MQ because it would be too huge so...

Firstly, I agree that Hammond was neither stupid nor blind. The Entity question gives away that he knew *something* but kept it vague enough that he gave Jack wiggle room.

I also firmly believe Hammond knew he had a responsibility to split them up if they had stepped over the line in regards to fraternisation because of all the dangers associated with that (not necessarily the legality of it) - ie, protecting them both from the exact scenario that had happened in Entity (allowing an enemy to gain an advantage by using someone they knew a person in authority loved, and placing said person in the position of having to kill someone they loved). And I think Hammond was tough enough that he could have made that call...

So why doesn't he? For me, I think it comes down to three things (two of which slurredspeech already mentioned):

(a) that SG1 as a team isn't a wholly military team, they're all closer than they should be in regards the letter of the rule (after all, as Pol says, you don't have to be lovers to love someone, and friends love each other too), so picking up specifically on the military relationship in the team would be unfair - and that the team as it stands works in part because of that extra closeness and if the overall mission is going to be successful they need the team, they need SG1.

(b) that he's assured that nothing physical is happening between Sam and Jack - there's no actual fraternisation of the gutter kind happening (no accidental meetings in storage closets, no secret liaisons outside of the base).

(c) that he believes that neither would allow their feelings to get in the way of the mission.

So long as all that held true, I don't believe Hammond would confront them directly (and obviously in canon he never does).

However, if he did - I tend to think regardless of the when that Sam and Jack would continue to deflect (especially if confronted separately rather than together) - primarily because

(a) they've convinced themselves their feelings aren't a problem when they do know they're shared and are determined to keep them in the room for the sake of the mission and the team (and subconsciously because they're scared of moving forward into a relationship)

(b) at other times they believe their feelings for the other aren't shared and so there just isn't a problem.

Anyways, interesting discussion - thank you all for your answers

[josiane]

Great summary of the Hammond discussion Rachel

HAPPY BIRTHDAY JESS!!!
CONGRATS ON 1200 POL!!!

[Regularamanda]

Totally agree Rachel!

*hugs Sam and Jack because she loves them too*

I think though that Entity showed Hammond that Jack can do his job regardless of how he feels about her. If he wouldn't have shot her...well then he'd have broken a whole bunch of Air Force regs. But he did and I think that showed to Hammond that he can do his job...no matter what he felt. But if something like that would have happened...well then they would have had big huge problems

What makes me shippy sigh all the time is that Jacob knew (at least a little bit) how they felt about each other...and that he knew that maybe she wasn't completely content with

[DutchIndeed]

...
What makes me shippy sigh all the time is that Jacob knew (at least a little bit) how they felt about each other...and that he knew that maybe she wasn't completely content with

You know... I always wondered exactly what Jacob knew.
Going by the Shippy (and IMHO canon) scenario, that Sam and Jack have been feeling feelings since, say S4 (to be on the safe side ), it has gone on quite some time.
When Pete hopped in, it was clear that Jacob didn't like Pete, or at least didn't like him for Sam. He could get along with Jack, but I'm not sure he knew how important he was to Sam, on the feeling feelings level...
The ''you can still have anything you want'' speech, could have easily been about Jack, and I tend to believe it was, but not per se.


Does that make any sense?

[josiane]

You know... I always wondered exactly what Jacob knew.
Going by the Shippy (and IMHO canon) scenario, that Sam and Jack have been feeling feelings since, say S4 (to be on the safe side ), it has gone on quite some time.
When Pete hopped in, it was clear that Jacob didn't like Pete, or at least didn't like him for Sam. He could get along with Jack, but I'm not sure he knew how important he was to Sam, on the feeling feelings level...
The ''you can still have anything you want'' speech, could have easily been about Jack, and I tend to believe it was, but not per se.


Does that make any sense?

I think this is classic Stargate, it's all about the context I think that we are intended to infer that he means Jack, and mostly by this conversation in relation to others - the call-back to the very similar (but more explicit) one in Grace, and the fact that it is followed up by Kerry saying almost the exact same thing to Jack, only she is more explicit too.

As to how and what Jacob knew up to that point, well I like to think he was pretty observant in general, but also it's highly probable, IMO, that Anise told him about the zatarc test when she got back. Jacob would have dragged it out of her, the second he learnt that Sam had been in danger, I reckon

[Linda06]

*sigh* My knees hurt

OT - I'm back!

Spoiler:

I've been so busy the last couple days I just haven't been around but I'm finally catching up with all of the conversations. Loved the Pete bashing discussion!

My 16th birthday was yesterday, and after spending the day at the Renaissance Festival, my best friend and I made a chocolate cake in the shape of a circle and decorated it as a Stargate! Then we retired to watch "You've Got Mail" which now completely reminds me of Sam and Jack!

What a great way to spend my Sweet Sixteen!

Well happy belated birthday

Oh and Linda I will love you forever if you could cap that moment in 'The Torment of Tantalus' where he grabs her as the DHD falls into the ocean, I don't have any good caps of that moment

Oh I like this ep I'll watch it soon and get the caps uploaded for ya

- *sigh*

- hey, what's wrong, sam?

- the shippers don't love us anymore...

- why do you say that!?

http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/9999/samcry1lb6.gif - they've abandoned the thread, they don't care about us anymore!!

- no, sam, that's not it... they're just a bit angsty about our future... they just want to *see* us together, even though we know we're a couple.

- but i miss them...

- hey, shippers, can you hear me!? please come home and make my wife smile.

Well some of us have to, ya know.....SLEEP

Totally agree Rachel!

*hugs Sam and Jack because she loves them too*

I think though that Entity showed Hammond that Jack can do his job regardless of how he feels about her. If he wouldn't have shot her...well then he'd have broken a whole bunch of Air Force regs. But he did and I think that showed to Hammond that he can do his job...no matter what he felt. But if something like that would have happened...well then they would have had big huge problems

What makes me shippy sigh all the time is that Jacob knew (at least a little bit) how they felt about each other...and that he knew that maybe she wasn't completely content with

I think Hammond didn't do anything about it even though he suspected they had feelings for each other was because he trusted them, he trusted them to do the job, he trusted them to not go against regulations, he trusted them to do whatever it takes to help defend earth. And he knew that SG-1 was a unique team they earth needed them, all of them to help protect earth.

You know... I always wondered exactly what Jacob knew.
Going by the Shippy (and IMHO canon) scenario, that Sam and Jack have been feeling feelings since, say S4 (to be on the safe side ), it has gone on quite some time.
When Pete hopped in, it was clear that Jacob didn't like Pete, or at least didn't like him for Sam. He could get along with Jack, but I'm not sure he knew how important he was to Sam, on the feeling feelings level...
The ''you can still have anything you want'' speech, could have easily been about Jack, and I tend to believe it was, but not per se.


Does that make any sense?

Didn't Jacob say something like "don't let rules stand in your way of happiness" or something like that. I always saw that as don't let the rules stop you from being with who you want to be with. i.e. Jack *shrugs*

[DutchIndeed]

I think this is classic Stargate, it's all about the context I think that we are intended to infer that he means Jack, and mostly by this conversation in relation to others - the call-back to the very similar (but more explicit) one in Grace, and the fact that it is followed up by Kerry saying almost the exact same thing to Jack, only she is more explicit too.

As to how and what Jacob knew up to that point, well I like to think he was pretty observant in general, but also it's highly probable, IMO, that Anise told him about the zatarc test when she got back. Jacob would have dragged it out of her, the second he learnt that Sam had been in danger, I reckon

Well, yes. When it comes to the Ship, almost everything is about the context *gently slaps... Coopie*

But if one looks at it purely storywise and thinks away the fact that SG isn't real, the Grace convo was in Sam's head. So there, Jacob says what Sam thinks he would say or what she wants him to say.

I like the Anise theory. *nods*

Didn't Jacob say something like "don't let rules stand in your way of happiness" or something like that. I always saw that as don't let the rules stop you from being with who you want to be with. i.e. Jack *shrugs*

Yes.
Me too.


...I was just wondering if 'we the Shippers' made Jacob a ''Shipper'' or that he really is one.
I must sound like a troll now, huh?

[Linda06]

Yes.
Me too.


...I was just wondering if 'we the Shippers' made Jacob a ''Shipper'' or that he really is one.
I must sound like a troll now, huh?

Ah right, well he did kinda like Jack didn't he. So i'd guess he wouldn't have a huge problem with Jack/Sam I think Jacob suspected that Sam wasn't completely happy with Pete, but he saw her with Jsck alot over the years so he'd have to be as blind as a bat not to see the connection betweeen them. Does that make sense

[DutchIndeed]

Ah right, well he did kinda like Jack didn't he. So i'd guess he wouldn't have a huge problem with Jack/Sam I think Jacob suspected that Sam wasn't completely happy with Pete, but he saw her with Jsck alot over the years so he'd have to be as blind as a bat not to see the connection betweeen them. Does that make sense

Yeah.
I think that jacob turned out to be the kind of father who started paying attention to what goes on in his daughters life, having missed so much already.
So yes, it would make sense that he saw the way she and Jack interacted...

[Linda06]

Yeah.
I think that jacob turned out to be the kind of father who started paying attention to what goes on in his daughters life, having missed so much already.
So yes, it would make sense that he saw the way she and Jack interacted...

And if Jacob didn't notice i'm sure Selmac did

[starlover]

Ahhh...the Jacob debate

I think he knew.

Why?
Threads.

In that episode Sam does has some conversations with Jacob and he asks her if she is really happy, she ofcourse, tells him 'yes'. But Jacob asks Sam in a way that he knows better...

Jacob: I just wanna know you're gonna be happy.
Sam: I am.
Jacob: Don't let rules stand in your way.

This makes me think that Jacob knows Jack will make her happy. Who or what else could he mean by "don't let rules stand in your way" ...I can only think of one person; Jack. Sam and Jack aren't together because of the regulations and their respect for the airforce.(they could have scr**ed the regs long ago if they wanted to)

Also later on Jack puts his arm around Sam in the observation room from where Jacob can see them sitting(if he wanted to)...

This also makes me think that Jack has had a conversation with Jacob before he died(just a feeling). This is because Jack says the whole "always" part on a rather "public" place...where Jacob can see it...

Buuuuut I'm babbling again so...that's it for now!

[leiasky]

Dunno...Hammond wouldn't have asked, I think. 'Cause if he did, then he'd have to acknowledge and then reassign.

JMHO.

Totally agree.

Now, after they were reassigned. Jack was in Washington, presumably so was Hammond after he retired (or was he?). Would there have been talk after 'Threads'? Jack going over for a beer, maybe bringing Sam along at some point . . .

Fly bunny, fly!

[Linda06]

Ahhh...the Jacob debate

I think he knew.

Why?
Threads.

In that episode Sam does has some conversations with Jacob and he asks her if she is really happy, she ofcourse, tells him 'yes'. But Jacob asks Sam in a way that he knows better...

Jacob: I just wanna know you're gonna be happy.
Sam: I am.
Jacob: Don't let rules stand in your way.

This makes me think that Jacob knows Jack will make her happy. Who or what else could he mean by "don't let rules stand in your way" ...I can only think of one person; Jack. Sam and Jack aren't together because of the regulations and their respect for the airforce.(they could have scr**ed the regs long ago if they wanted to)

Also later on Jack puts his arm around Sam in the observation room from where Jacob can see them sitting(if he wanted to)...

This also makes me think that Jack has had a conversation with Jacob before he died(just a feeling). This is because Jack says the whole "always" part on a rather "public" place...where Jacob can see it...

Buuuuut I'm babbling again so...that's it for now!

He could have thought it was maybe Walter or Siler...teehee...*runs away*