Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread

[majorsal]

If they had actually gotten married, it wouldn't have lasted, given that he couldn't discuss with anyone what his wife did for a living. And how would he explain to people what was happening if and when she went missing or was badly injured in some mysterious incident. The frustration of not being able to talk with any his friends or associates about that kind of stuff would have driven him bats and would likely have broken them up eventually. Imagine trying to come up with some "reasonable" explanation to Sam's brother if any of those things happened. I'm quite sure Mark would never have bought any of the excuses, and somehow managed to wheedle it out of Pete.

i could also see pete becoming more demanding over time, and setting limits to how long sam could be at the base, or bla bla boring. he seemed just enough of a control freak that he'd move past the puppy love phase and into 'i'm the husband, please do as i want'.

pete didn't come off as an abuser or bully, but he *did* come off as someone that didn't take no for an answer and would push until he got his way. not in a bully way, but in the way we saw in the eps he was in. he had a bit of a manipulator personality in him.

jack comes off as a man that would want his woman to be *her*, flaws and imperfections included. pete comes off as 'i want carol brady, perfect wife/mother' guy.

hmm, i seem to be talking a lot about pete.

[trupi]

Sometimes I think Sam unconsciously used her relationship with Pete, to try to get a reaction from Jack, to get him to admit he still had feelings for her. However, he kept his ground thinking she was happy and walked away. She should have realized after so many years of working with Jack, that once he reveal his feelings for her, it's forever and he would do anything to keep her safe and happy. All she had to do was state her concerns to Jack and he (with lots of hesitation) would have re verbalize his feeling for her (in an round about way). But when your lonely and your biological clock is ticking away, you do silly things which can cause more harm then good to yourself and others.

[majorsal]

I had the misfortune to catch 'A$$inity' on the tv the other day. What a dreadful episode. I agree with MajorSal that the cop is mis-cast. I'd forgotten just how often Sam and 'he-who-shall-not-be-named' kiss in this episode....great big sloppy, un-sexy, 'I want to poke my eyes out with a hot poker' kind of kisses. *shivers*

*goes to lie down in a darkened room to recover from the vision of those kisses*

ship chemistry *is* in the eye of the beholder, but all this made me do was .

it just didn't feel *believable* to me, and as a sam fan, i needed some quality of believability, even if it was going to break my heart. so shipper *and* sam fan was let down.

WHY am i talking about pete so much?

[Nynaeve506]

i could also see pete becoming more demanding over time, and setting limits to how long sam could be at the base, or bla bla boring. he seemed just enough of a control freak that he'd move past the puppy love phase and into 'i'm the husband, please do as i want'.

pete didn't come off as an abuser or bully, but he *did* come off as someone that didn't take no for an answer and would push until he got his way. not in a bully way, but in the way we saw in the eps he was in. he had a bit of a manipulator personality in him.

jack comes off as a man that would want his woman to be *her*, flaws and imperfections included. pete comes off as 'i want carol brady, perfect wife/mother' guy.

hmm, i seem to be talking a lot about pete.

I'm curious why you think this. Other than his stalkerish beginning, I don't see him trying to control Sam. He thinks what she does is cool, he seems to accept her job... in fact I think what annoys Sam in "Threads" is his fanboy attitude. The house was startling to Sam, but Pete didn't buy it to control her. He honest to God thought they were going to get married (and the writers seemed to imply that the date wasn't far off). He transferred to be close to her (so she could keep working), he bought the house in Colorado Springs (where she works), and he picked a house that she had described to him. Granted, it wasn't the right gesture, but it was a sweet gesture nonetheless and I don't believe he had any malice or ill-will towards her whatsoever (or the desire to control her).

Now, I do get the impression that he's much more of a traditional guy - you know, the husband taking the lead. I agree that he has a tendency to push until he gets his way. I don't think those would have translated into freaky controlishness, but as we see, it does cause misunderstandings (buying the house without talking to her).

Jack knows Sam. That's why they're perfect for each other. He's willing to step back and let her shine and is willing to have happiness in an unconventional way (unlike Pete's dream house scenario). It just takes Sam a minute or two to realize that she wants the unconventional happiness, not what Pete has to offer.

[Regularamanda]

ship chemistry *is* in the eye of the beholder, but all this made me do was .

it just didn't feel *believable* to me, and as a sam fan, i needed some quality of believability, even if it was going to break my heart. so shipper *and* sam fan was let down.

WHY am i talking about pete so much?

Because you're going crazy.....

[dipsofjazz]

I'm curious why you think this. Other than his stalkerish beginning, I don't see him trying to control Sam.
Spoiled for space

Spoiler:

He thinks what she does is cool, he seems to accept her job... in fact I think what annoys Sam in "Threads" is his fanboy attitude. The house was startling to Sam, but Pete didn't buy it to control her. He honest to God thought they were going to get married (and the writers seemed to imply that the date wasn't far off). He transferred to be close to her (so she could keep working), he bought the house in Colorado Springs (where she works), and he picked a house that she had described to him. Granted, it wasn't the right gesture, but it was a sweet gesture nonetheless and I don't believe he had any malice or ill-will towards her whatsoever (or the desire to control her).

Now, I do get the impression that he's much more of a traditional guy - you know, the husband taking the lead. I agree that he has a tendency to push until he gets his way. I don't think those would have translated into freaky controlishness, but as we see, it does cause misunderstandings (buying the house without talking to her).

Jack knows Sam. That's why they're perfect for each other. He's willing to step back and let her shine and is willing to have happiness in an unconventional way (unlike Pete's dream house scenario). It just takes Sam a minute or two to realize that she wants the unconventional happiness, not what Pete has to offer.

You're forgetting his childish tantrum the morning after he slept with her. He stormed off because she wouldn't tell him what she did, because she couldn't tell him. He behaved like a spoiled brat that wasn't getting his own way. This, of course, lead to him asking his buddy to check up on Sam, then the stalking etc.

[majorsal]

I don't hold Sam accountable at all for Pete being in love with who he thought she was and not who she was: like I said, he's an adult. It was up to him to find out the truth about the woman he was going to marry and believed he was in love with. I also tend to think Sam was as honest with Pete as she was with herself at that point about who she was and what she wanted. We're all capable of deluding ourselves very nicely and I'm sure Sam convinced herself that perhaps apart from the subject of Jack that she had even been more open and honest with Pete about her personal wants/needs/desires, about who she Samantha was, than she ever had with anyone else before.

spoilered for space only

Spoiler:

For me, it was Pete who should have questioned more when she evaded a question or - quite frankly, when she took two weeks to answer his proposal. You say Pete wasn't a mind reader but if you know something is up, you don't just accept it. Pete happily deluded himself when she said yes instead of questioning.

To be fair to Pete, in the beginning he knew he didn't have the whole picture (that's partly why he storms out in a fit of mistrust the morning after and runs the background check on her) and did question leading to the revelations on the Stargate and perhaps after that, he's too wary of rocking the boat again and perhaps ruining his chance with her and that's why he backs off digging again.

I think of Pete as an insecure guy who can't believe he's with someone like Sam and even though he knows she's not right for him, that he's probably not what's right for her, goes after her anyway because he fools himself into believing the fantasy. I feel sorry for him but I will always believe that he has to take his share of responsibility for what happened between him and Sam. There's two people in a relationship after all.

i totally agree.

it's the same way i blame, or hold responsible, both sam and jack for where their relationship did and didn't go. i can see both making bad decisions and efforts through the years (with half of it being mis-communication and fear).

our poor sam and jack.

[Nynaeve506]

Because you're going crazy.....

Maybe it's because she likes potatoes!!! LOL

[Nynaeve506]

[/spoilers]

You're forgetting his childish tantrum the morning after he slept with her. He stormed off because she wouldn't tell him what she did, because she couldn't tell him. He behaved like a spoiled brat that wasn't getting his own way. This, of course, lead to him asking his buddy to check up on Sam, then the stalking etc.

Oh yes, it was definitely childish. I just thought he sort of made up for it later by being sweet. He made a mistake. One that I would have never tolerated in my own relationships, but then again, this is SAM we're talking about. His momentary tantrum and stalker tendencies pales in comparison to some of the other weirdos she's had any sort of romantic inklings towards:

Jonas Hansen: thought he was God.
Martouf: confused her with his dead girlfriend
Narim: had her voice for his house... gutter:

Spoiler:

(for you gutter girls, doesn't it make you wonder what was happening when they weren't around :: shudders :: )

Orlin: gave up being ascended and destroyed various household appliances. Also lacked normal social graces, such as leaving when asked.

Am I missing anyone here?

OH yes! Joe... who in our timeline was but a momentary thought, in 2010 was her husband: failed to mention that the Aschen would be sterilizing the population.

[Rachel500]

I never meant to imply that Pete was devoid of responsibility. You're right, two people in a relationship and both have to shoulder the burden. As for questioning - not everyone questions (I go back to my example of cheating spouses where the other one gets blindsided) - you want to trust the other person. Sam should have never said yes to begin with. The fact it took her two weeks to say yes and that she was having doubts...

I'm only weighing on Sam's responsibility in the conversation because sometimes I think the blame gets laid squarely at Spud's feet and I don't think that's fair. Truthfully, Sam should have kept it as a non-serious fling. She wanted something, but she wasn't honest with herself about what that something was and hurt Spudster in the process. Besides, SpudBuster isn't the saltiest fry in the bunch, I don't know that he was really astute enough to pick up the hints. I mean, it did take Sam a good long while and she's got a phD!!
<snippage>

It's funny because I think Sam is usually the one blamed for everything that happened with Pete although admittedly usually in respect of Jack rather than Pete.

I don't deny that Sam screwed up hugely. I agree with you there. She does let things go too far. Sam was clearly not on the same page as Pete in terms of the seriousness of their relationship (she's surprised he's moving to Colorado Springs and gobsmacked at the proposal).

I think she accepts Pete on a wave of believing Jack really doesn't want her anymore and Pete's *there*, he's a nice guy, he adores her, he can mostly handle that she has this strange other existence, she's fond of him and she doesn't want to hurt him, and maybe it's her only chance to be with someone...

And she screws up and makes the wrong decision.

And to me Pete equally screws up by proposing in the first place and then accepting her answer even though he knew something was off.

Love is blind but I think there is a difference between a committed couple where one person doesn't see the other is cheating, and a couple entering a serious commitment where one person can see the other has doubts but ignores them regardless.

[majorsal]

I'm only weighing on Sam's responsibility in the conversation because sometimes I think the blame gets laid squarely at Spud's feet and I don't think that's fair. Truthfully, Sam should have kept it as a non-serious fling. She wanted something, but she wasn't honest with herself about what that something was and hurt Spudster in the process. Besides, SpudBuster isn't the saltiest fry in the bunch, I don't know that he was really astute enough to pick up the hints. I mean, it did take Sam a good long while and she's got a phD!!

pete was a detective, it was his career to study ppl and their behaviors. i think he picked up the hints well enough...

I'll have to be in the minority on all this

now you know how i feel concerning the regs. i feel they're guidelines, not rules of morality, and that loves conquers all. i *know* i'm in the minority here on that.

(((twilight and shippers)))

[majorsal]

Sometimes I think Sam unconsciously used her relationship with Pete, to try to get a reaction from Jack, to get him to admit he still had feelings for her. However, he kept his ground thinking she was happy and walked away. She should have realized after so many years of working with Jack, that once he reveal his feelings for her, it's forever and he would do anything to keep her safe and happy. All she had to do was state her concerns to Jack and he (with lots of hesitation) would have re verbalize his feeling for her (in an round about way). But when your lonely and your biological clock is ticking away, you do silly things which can cause more harm then good to yourself and others.

sam went to jack in 'lost city' to talk. and jack could have given her 'something' in 'affinity'. she tried, again, in 'threads', but things took a life of their own in that ep.

i wonder if sam felt jack didn't care anymore, *because* he didn't speak up?

just saying.

[majorsal]

I'm curious why you think this. Other than his stalkerish beginning, I don't see him trying to control Sam. He thinks what she does is cool, he seems to accept her job... in fact I think what annoys Sam in "Threads" is his fanboy attitude. The house was startling to Sam, but Pete didn't buy it to control her. He honest to God thought they were going to get married (and the writers seemed to imply that the date wasn't far off). He transferred to be close to her (so she could keep working), he bought the house in Colorado Springs (where she works), and he picked a house that she had described to him. Granted, it wasn't the right gesture, but it was a sweet gesture nonetheless and I don't believe he had any malice or ill-will towards her whatsoever (or the desire to control her).

Now, I do get the impression that he's much more of a traditional guy - you know, the husband taking the lead. I agree that he has a tendency to push until he gets his way. I don't think those would have translated into freaky controlishness, but as we see, it does cause misunderstandings (buying the house without talking to her).

Jack knows Sam. That's why they're perfect for each other. He's willing to step back and let her shine and is willing to have happiness in an unconventional way (unlike Pete's dream house scenario). It just takes Sam a minute or two to realize that she wants the unconventional happiness, not what Pete has to offer.

but he didn't let sam pick out the house with him. *he* chose it. while that rings of a romantic gesture, it also shows a forwardness that would tick the living heck out of me if i were on the receiving end. did he already have the furniture picked out too? (did he buy the dog already? )

i'm curious, where did you get that she described to him what kind of house she wanted?

but i didn't mean 'controlling' in a mean way, just that when sam said she couldn't tell him the details of her job, he ran a search on her and then followed her around to find out anyways. i can't ignore that when i factoring in his personality.

while i don't always agree with everyone's take on things, i *love* reading differing views, and it sometimes leads me to actually see something in a new light. and we're a nice bunch too, so that helps.

[majorsal]

Because you're going crazy.....

Maybe it's because she likes potatoes!!! LOL

no, no, no, i'll take the crazy!

[Regularamanda]

Maybe it's because she likes potatoes!!! LOL

You know I always had a suspicion that Sally actually liked the shrub and her dislike of him was just a cover up...the universe is starting to make sense now!

*hugs Sally*

See look you even have him in your post...awww You do like potatoes

*runs from Sally and her P-90*

and to stay on topic -