Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread

[Aveo_amacus]

Present #2

The third installment of the TPTB series. If you like ABBA and you like Paul Mullie, this is the song for you (lol)

"Mullie Mullie Mullie"

Congrats on 2500 Bekki!!

and that video was Awesome!!!

Which you manage to do nonetheless.
I'm not talking about Jack in S7-8 when the war with the Goaul'd+Replicators was at its high, but after Threads: He promised her he'd always be there for her yet he upped and went to Washington abandoning her - he wasn't there for her in "Camelot/""Flesh and Blood", "Line in The Sand", "the Road not taken", "Unending"; I'm not even going to mention Atlantis... So while Pete was willing to make sacrifices regarding his job, possibly his friends in Denver in order to be with Sam, Jack and Sam aren't willing to do the same to be together Heck if we take Kerry's words literally "Is the AF the only thing keeping you apart? Retire you idiot!", since Jack didn't retire what can we infer from that? All in all the way this ship was conducted post-Threads makes me feel there's no way TPTB can resolve it to my satisfaction... Hope BW might prove me wrong in the next movie though...

You don't know that! Sure we don't see him in any of those eps, but you're only seeing 40minutes of tv! not their entire lives! take LitS, one minute they're being put into coffins offworld, then they've all recovered! You don't really know quite how it happened, Sam says that Lam managed to find the cure from the lizard and Sam's research but you don't see it, Jack could have been there. The Macaroon scene also doesn't mean that Jack was never there, it's only a few minutes
Now I'm not an expert in AF rules or anything, but considering how important Jack is to the program I wouldn't be suprised if the President/Joint chiefs placed a stop loss in his file.

Sorry I don't want to start an argument.

[silly sally]

Congrats on 2500 Bekki!!

and that video was Awesome!!!






You don't know that! Sure we don't see him in any of those eps, but you're only seeing 40minutes of tv! not their entire lives! take LitS, one minute they're being put into coffins offworld, then they've all recovered! You don't really know quite how it happened, Sam says that Lam managed to find the cure from the lizard and Sam's research but you don't see it, Jack could have been there. The Macaroon scene also doesn't mean that Jack was never there, it's only a few minutes
Now I'm not an expert in AF rules or anything, but considering how important Jack is to the program I wouldn't be suprised if the President/Joint chiefs placed a stop gap in his file.

Sorry I don't want to start an argument.

How does that work? I'm not familiar with AF either, but what about civil rights, if you want to quit AF you can't? what's this slave labor?

LE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-loss_policy
From there it seems it only applies to enlisted personnel; does it also apply to career military?

LLE: right from the horse's mouth
http://www.armytimes.com/benefits/ge...tion_stoploss/

Separation: Stop-loss


Presidential authority may suspend any provision of law pertaining to separation and retirement from the military. In other words, the military may legally keep you in uniform past your planned separation or retirement dates in times of national emergency.

Stop-loss implementation authority was delegated to the secretary of defense by executive order Sept. 14, 2001, which in turn was delegated to the secretaries of the services.

A stop-loss order can affect an entire branch of service or specific military operations. At one time or another in the past few years, members of all services have had their terms of service extended to meet operational requirements, although as of early 2008 only the Army was still using stop-loss, with about 7,000 to 10,000 soldiers affected.

Check with your personnel officer to see if stop-loss may affect you.

LLLE: Also it applies only in time of war (I doubt Congress declared war on the Ori, Goaul'd, Replicators or Wraith )

[Lady eliza]

In Prophecy, Jack's trip to vegas- "You and me?" and that smile to Sam afterwards, I think there we have a moment with Sam's returned smile. Also, building on a former theory that some one turned ancient and went back in time. In Prophecy, at the end, Jonas said to Sam that they had helped to fulfill a prophecy, so some one had actually gone back in time several thousand years ago for that episode and conversation to occur. SG1 were meant to be there, who knows. Maybe Daniel was busy for that episode....

Spoiler:

Appoligises i've been away so often and for so long. I'm getting used to the flat at the moment and re-organising.

[starlover]

Yeah, you can just call me Grace. Wow, I'm feeling apart of the family already

That's the point... Now...erm...have fun eh

Grace..reminds me of this(good excuse to post it)

he he*stares at it*

[silly sally]

That's the point... Now...erm...have fun eh

Grace..reminds me of this(good excuse to post it)

he he*stares at it*

You don't need an excuse to post it

BTW I doubt AF put a stop-loss on Jack's career (they usually don't do that to Generals and stop-loss policy is so controversial that I doubt TPTB would want to paint AF bad)

[PengYn]

Which you manage to do nonetheless.
I'm not talking about Jack in S7-8 when the war with the Goaul'd+Replicators was at its high, but after Threads: He promised her he'd always be there for her yet he upped and went to Washington abandoning her - he wasn't there for her in "Camelot/""Flesh and Blood", "Line in The Sand", "the Road not taken", "Unending"; I'm not even going to mention Atlantis... So while Pete was willing to make sacrifices regarding his job, possibly his friends in Denver in order to be with Sam, Jack and Sam aren't willing to do the same to be together Heck if we take Kerry's words literally "Is the AF the only thing keeping you apart? Retire you idiot!", since Jack didn't retire what can we infer from that? All in all the way this ship was conducted post-Threads makes me feel there's no way TPTB can resolve it to my satisfaction... Hope BW might prove me wrong in the next movie though...

Now who's painting

Honestly you can't look at Sam and Jack's relationship as being black and white, which you seem intent on doing and so be it. "He upped and went to Washington"? Rick left the show to be with his family! So where on earth was Jack supposed to go?

You talk about sacrifices and how Sam and Jack aren't willing to do the same to be with each other. Your issue is tptb and their lack of mentioning Jack over the years, and I honestly get that. It's upsetting to have a well known and loved character leave, and perhaps not be mentioned as much as you liked. But the show moved on, and in television you can't live in the past, so the focus had to be on the still regular characters. But it doesn't mean that the hints we've been given since - regardless of whether you want or care about the subtle or not - don't point to Sam and Jack being in a relationship now.

It's not about the regs. There's a much deeper level to Jack's being okay about leaving it in the room for instance, that has everything to do with his own history, his own broken-ness and very little to do with the fact they're in the same CoC. Jack's retiring has absolutely nothing to do with Jack and Sam's ability to be together in a relationship. In reality there are married personnel in the military who find themselves working together because they have the necessary skills to be in that position. So logically, there has to be much more to Sam and Jack. Their own personal demons kept them apart, but by Threads, they've both let that go and they're willing to not let the regs be that pretend barrier between them.

I find it really difficult when someone says Jack has to retire and then they can be together because then the moments, the little beats, the subtle hints we've been given about Jack and about Sam since S9 began, make absolutely no sense. All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best. If Jack said "Always" and meant it and they went fishing and we can believe that that was at least the start of their "togetherness", why over-complicate it? Unless it's deliberately to provoke people into questioning their belief that they are together now.

[silly sally]

Now who's painting

Honestly you can't look at Sam and Jack's relationship as being black and white, which you seem intent on doing and so be it. "He upped and went to Washington"? Rick left the show to be with his family! So where on earth was Jack supposed to go?

You talk about sacrifices and how Sam and Jack aren't willing to do the same to be with each other. Your issue is tptb and their lack of mentioning Jack over the years, and I honestly get that. It's upsetting to have a well known and loved character leave, and perhaps not be mentioned as much as you liked. But the show moved on, and in television you can't live in the past, so the focus had to be on the still regular characters. But it doesn't mean that the hints we've been given since - regardless of whether you want or care about the subtle or not - don't point to Sam and Jack being in a relationship now.

It's not about the regs. There's a much deeper level to Jack's being okay about leaving it in the room for instance, that has everything to do with his own history, his own broken-ness and very little to do with the fact they're in the same CoC. Jack's retiring has absolutely nothing to do with Jack and Sam's ability to be together in a relationship. In reality there are married personnel in the military who find themselves working together because they have the necessary skills to be in that position. So logically, there has to be much more to Sam and Jack. Their own personal demons kept them apart, but by Threads, they've both let that go and they're willing to not let the regs be that pretend barrier between them.

I find it really difficult when someone says Jack has to retire and then they can be together because then the moments, the little beats, the subtle hints we've been given about Jack and about Sam since S9 began, make absolutely no sense. All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best. If Jack said "Always" and meant it and they went fishing and we can believe that that was at least the start of their "togetherness", why over-complicate it? Unless it's deliberately to provoke people into questioning their belief that they are together now.

So what, if I don't believe they're together now or still have some doubts, I'm not a shipper?
If Jack retired or at least tried to retire than I would have seen he at least tried to heed Kerry's advice; I was just comparing Pete's willingness to part with his job/friends in order to be with Sam with Jack's apparent (or not) unwillingness to do the same...

[silly sally]

I think maybe Pengyn's point was that, if one chooses to interpret events the way you did, Jack comes off as a bit of a heel and a cad. In which case, why care anymore? I mean, if he's such a jerk, or as uninterested in a relationship with Sam as he appears with your interpretation, what does it matter anymore? It's easy to say, 'Bad writing by TPTB,' but at the end of the day, all the characters are is what's been written. So I don't think she was saying you weren't a shipper, but wondering why you still were as you seem to believe Jack is a jerk who doesn't love Sam.

Yes, he can appear that way, but we both know he isn't so I would have loved a little more in-depth analysis by TPTB about his reasons for "upping and leaving" to Washington... It is sad that TPTB don't realize that what made Stargate great was the relationships between the characters...

[JenniferJF]

Yes, he can appear that way, but we both know he isn't so I would have loved a little more in-depth analysis by TPTB about his reasons for "upping and leaving" to Washington... It is sad that TPTB don't realize that what made Stargate great was the relationships between the characters...

I agree with this completely. Someone mentioned on another thread that they'd filmed more of that and never shown it. Man, what I would give to see that to clarify. And like you said, maybe we'll see more in Movie #3 to explain it. I think the point is, let's not give up hope now! Because the show's not over until it's over. Which may be never... and is almost certainly not now

EDIT: And anyone confused, I'd deleted my original post as it sorta repeated in summary what Pengyn had said.

[Aveo_amacus]

or the show's not over til the movies are over
yep hope x14

[tayradio]

I wonder if JM and the rest have nightmares about the word "confirmation" since so many are asking for it in so many ways!

LOL I'm sure that poor man has nightmares about penguins marching on his office, chanting the word "Confirmation", over and over again... like some sort of George Romero movie!

[silly sally]

I agree with this completely. Someone mentioned on another thread that they'd filmed more of that and never shown it. Man, what I would give to see that to clarify. And like you said, maybe we'll see more in Movie #3 to explain it. I think the point is, let's not give up home now!

I doubt we'll get that in the 3rd movie; at the very best we'll get what Mulder/Scully shippers got in the last X-Files movie which would be very, very little to satisfy me...
I want to know and see

1. when, how, why they got together; (okay first qs - if they got together? I'd be very pissed if the 3rd movie would be the scene where they get together!)
2. how together are they? (married? when?)
2. when, how, why they decided to go to Nevada/Washington?
3. some references that they visited/were there for each other...
4. were they torn about Sam's decision to return to SG-1/ move to Atlantis

All of this can't be accomplished by a rumored "romantic scene"

I don't know if other shippers realize, but if Sam's new rumored position is commanding the Phoenix, she'd be in Jack's direct chain of command again?

[JenniferJF]

LOL I'm sure that poor man has nightmares about penguins marching on his office, chanting the word "Confirmation", over and over again... like some sort of George Romero movie!

Hehehe. That's how the third movie can open...

Spoiler:

Jack's office in Washington, seen first person from behind the desk. Penguins start to pour through the door, filling the room, silently standing staring at him. He pulls back the drapes - hundreds more penguins heading his way outside...

The desk phone starts to ring, he answers it... And finds himself grabbing his bedside phone, having just woken from a nightmare.

"Uh?" he grunts, half awake.

Voice: "General? Is that you? There's a problem at the SGC..."

Jack rolls over, disturbing Sam whose curled against his back. He thrusts the phone at her. "It's for you."

Yes, I know it calls back to Threads. That's the point

[JenniferJF]

All of this can't be accomplished by a rumored "romantic scene"

I agree. What I've been thinking might be great would be, if Sam/Jack established sometime prior to Movie #3 becomes canon in Movie #3, which I wouldn't be surprised at, but the details remain fuzzy, again, wouldn't surprise me, what I'd love is if they could finally directly address all the questions you asked in a SG-1 book. They've always sorta skimmed around the ship in books the way they do on most SG-1 eps, and it would be great to have a book overtly shippy in the way of D&C which could cover all those points.

Which is probably even MORE wishful thinking. But there ya go. It'd be nice .

[PengYn]

So what, if I don't believe they're together now or still have some doubts, I'm not a shipper?
If Jack retired or at least tried to retire than I would have seen he at least tried to heed Kerry's advice; I was just comparing Pete's willingness to part with his job/friends in order to be with Sam with Jack's apparent (or not) unwillingness to do the same...

Uh no, not at all. I didn't say that. I was working on the general consensus that Threads is the defining moment for Sam and Jack and I was responding to your statement that he abandoned her. It had absolutely nothing to do with your ability or desire to ship these two characters.

Yes, he can appear that way, but we both know he isn't so I would have loved a little more in-depth analysis by TPTB about his reasons for "upping and leaving" to Washington... It is sad that TPTB don't realize that what made Stargate great was the relationships between the characters...

And I agree completely

It would have been wonderful to get more back story and I can certainly understand your frustration over the lack of it. We may never know the reasons behind their decision to keep it vague, and I'm really hopeful that the 3rd movie is more Jack centric and that it will meet the needs and hopes of all kinds of shippers.