Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread

[Seahen]

Just a reminder. Five and a half hours by my calculations.

Announcing!
The Real-Time Continuum Viewing!
Sunday, October 5
5PM EDT, 10 PM UK
Please join us on the Continuum Thread

BYOB and don't forget your DVDs!

[Nynaeve506]

Nice list...but about Orlin, in S9 he de-ascended...and was a child...he never re-ascended after that...he just forgot everything and is now in a special kind of home for people like him...(at the end of The Fourth Horsemen Sam pays him a visit)

I couldn't remember what happened after he became a kid. I really need to go back and rewatch a lot of these episodes.

[JenniferJF]

I heard through the grapvine (ala APA) that they were now on Hulu.com.

It's only going to be there 5 days, though (silly scifi) and I suspect they won't put it on their site for long if it continues to be as popular as it seems to be there (it's been on Hulu's front page for awhile as a 'most popular'), as Sciffy tends to use streaming as a 'puppy dog sale' so, though there are no ads, there is also no guarantee it'll be on for long. Which is yet another example of failure to understand their audience, as you'd think their potential audience would tend to be early adaptors and would be more likely rather than less to want internet access to their programming... But what do I know, I'm not a network exec.

It is not, however, yet available for legal download. Which I hope changes for those of us without TV (of which I'm probably the only one... *snort*) as I'd really like the opportunity to pay for my own copy of the show instead of having to find it through alternative means...

I had a date last night... it was only a second date, and it was okay. His favorite show is SG-1, but he's not an online fan, so he apparently didn't even know Ark of Truth existed, and he hadn't yet seen Continuum. So, I cooked dinner and we watched Ark of Truth, and then Sanctuary. We talked about the evolution of Sam's character and agreed that we both liked her so much better in the later seasons of SG-1 and in Atlantis. I pointed out that she loosened up after she and Jack actually RESOLVED that pesky UST, and he laughed and said it was about darn time and that it took them long enough.

So, when's the wedding? Just joking, but I know it's always wonderful when you meet a man with similar interests to yours... Or who is at least interested enough to put up with your interests, which is quite nearly as good Have fun!

Next, in my half dream-half awake state this morning, I realized, I don't think Jack and Sam have ever hugged in a non-sad moment. If they have, please correct me, but I don't think I have ever seen a happy hug. Therefore, I have decided for the next movie I want a happy hug! I want Sam to put on that 10,000 megawatt smile and hug Jack out of joy! At this exact second, I'll take that over a wedding or any other confirmation.

Oh, yeah. Especially as I think the reason we've not gotten any happy hugs is because, prior to Threads, they were more or less on a "Don't Touch" policy because they couldn't be together, so were intentionally at arm's reach. It was only when the situation got so bad, when they just NEEDED the contact desperately enough to overcome that, that they hugged. And I always felt, except maybe early on such as in ItF, that there's almost a sense of failure when they do hug - like they're both 'giving in' to their emotions over their responsibilities. Which is also why, I think, the only 'happy hug' comes so early when neither of them, IMHO, is aware yet of what is starting between them and so aren't yet censoring their actions for appropriateness.

You mean the one who stalked her? Or the one who spent an entire night in her house watching her and reading her books? No, maybe the one who recorded her voice and used it as voice for the A.I. lady of his house? There's also the one attracted to her just because she possesses memories of his deceased love....I dunno...

Just using Domina's quote here because it's such a great summary. I've enjoyed reading what's been said so far, and don't have a whole lot to add beyond what's been said except a bit on how that relates to Sam's relationship to Jack (I know, amazing on this Thread, eh?). I think one of the reasons Jack is so successful in convincing Sam that he no longer wants that personal relationship with her is because all the example (or all we've seen) of Sam being pursued by other men has been so obvious. None of them were the least bit subtle. Or self-contained. Or polite. Or probably even legal.... Jack, otoh, while having professed to loving her, then backs off nearly completely. Because, of course, as we can interpret, he really does love HER - not her as an accessory to him, with him and making him feel good, but her as a free standing person. So his actions are based on what he perceives as being good for her, even when they're not necessarily good for him, or for them. And, of course, since Sam has no point of reference we've seen for this type of behavior, she fails to, I think, even suspect what's going on.

Got a bit more to say re: 2010, but John just woke up and since we haven't spent any real time together in weeks (woohoo! I'm laid off as of tomorrow, today's the first day I'm not working in 2 months...), I'm outta here!

[hedwig]

I'm a bit embarrassed to say the whole "whether Pete was a stalker" issue has really been bugging me, and I rewatched "Chimera" and came up with the following:

Sam and Pete spend the night together. Sam tells him she's not allowed to tell him what she does. Pete leaves in a huff. Sits in his car outside her house and calls friend to do a background check on Sam, which must have raised some big red flags with the Air Force (but we never hear about that).

That evening the team meets at the SGC (it's dark out in the frame of the entrance to the SGC), thus assuming it's that evening.

Next morning, Pete is sitting outside Sam's house again and gets the call from his friend about the results of the background check. Why is he sitting outside her house like that if not to check up on her?

Sam leaves her house and Pete follows her.

The team meets about the surveillance set up. If Pete followed Sam, where did he go all day? He must have sat outside the SGC a long time or else he wouldn't have known Sam left and was in the surveillance van.

Jack, Sam, Teal'c in the surveillance van outside Daniel's house. It's nighttime.

Pete is watching the van from down the street. Assumes several hours later, Pete still watching when Jack and Teal'c run across the street to Daniel's house.

A few more hours pass and dawn arrives.

More waiting - Pete still watching.

Sam tells guys to move in.

Osiris tries to run.

Sam leaves van, and just as she steps out Pete walks up and says "Sam" - obviously knowing she's been in the van for hours. Was he planning to just walk up to the van, pop in and say "Hi Sam, what are you doing here?" Why wait till that moment to let her know he was there?

And the rest of the scenario plays out.

I dunno. Sounds a lot like "stalking" to me. Certainly more than ordinary tailing somebody or just following them around out of curiosity. I don't see any legitimate reason for Pete to have been anywhere near Daniel's house. It was no accident he was there.

And with that, I think I will let this go. I know we all have our own opinions about Pete and whether what he did was right or wrong. I didn't really dislike Pete, but I don't like what he did, and I don't like that he got away with it, or that Sam continued to see him. I think I would be pretty outraged to find out somebody was sneaking around behind my back like that in order to find out information about me, especially after I told him I wasn't allowed to tell him more.

[leiasky]

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/q...f?t=1223203976

Talk about knowing your partner! That move was executed with such knowledge of him and with flowing ease. I wonder how many times they had to practice getting that right!

[Nynaeve506]

And with that, I think I will let this go. I know we all have our own opinions about Pete and whether what he did was right or wrong. I didn't really dislike Pete, but I don't like what he did, and I don't like that he got away with it, or that Sam continued to see him. I think I would be pretty outraged to find out somebody was sneaking around behind my back like that in order to find out information about me, especially after I told him I wasn't allowed to tell him more.

If I had to sum up why I didn't like Pete, it was really his stalker tendencies. Had he come about in a different way, I wouldn't have disliked him. Military ppl have to do classified things. That's the life of being with black ops, so it makes me frustrated with the *writers* that they bring him into the loop... I also wonder if it would have been treated differently if it had been the other way around (gender wise)... Just a thought. I forgive them because they write so darn well and hey, nobody's perfect ... and they did give us "Threads"...

[Amalthea]

Hey shippers!

I love the Sam/Joe, Sam/Jack stuff in 2010. It's one of my favourite things to explore in the SJ universe. We talked about it a while ago (I can't remember when it was, so it must have been quite a while ago ) and it was really interesting to see whether people thought Sam and Jack had been together in that universe, before Sam was with Joe. There are so many reasons to explain that whole hostility *huggles 2010* So...anyone want to share what they think might have happened?

I've always felt that 2010 showed how complicated a man Jack is, but how at the same time his love for Sam is a complete kind of love. On the surface, he is all bitter and such when he asks Sam about Joe. This could come from the fact that he obviously retired over the alliance that was made with the Aschen, and probably, in the back of his mind, he always thought that when he retired, he'd be with Sam. Of course, he waited too long and she got involved with Joe in the mean time. In any case, when Sam tells Jack she can't have kids, he genuinely feels pain for her. It guts him that she can't have something she wants. And, I'm sure he always thought she'd be a wonderful mother. So even through his hostility, he can let that go when he sees she is in pain. To me, that shows how much he loves her and that he loves her no matter what else he may be feeling about their respective situations.

[DutchIndeed]

I just love how much we discuss Sam and Jack's other significant others so much. It always makes me smile. Especially how we always conclude that Sam and jack really have had no other ''significant'' others (with the possible exeption of Pete ) and that, really, they're only right for eachother.

...Because Jack's Sam's guy

[JenniferJF]

I've always felt that 2010 showed how complicated a man Jack is, but how at the same time his love for Sam is a complete kind of love. On the surface, he is all bitter and such when he asks Sam about Joe. This could come from the fact that he obviously retired over the alliance that was made with the Aschen, and probably, in the back of his mind, he always thought that when he retired, he'd be with Sam. Of course, he waited too long and she got involved with Joe in the mean time. In any case, when Sam tells Jack she can't have kids, he genuinely feels pain for her. It guts him that she can't have something she wants. And, I'm sure he always thought she'd be a wonderful mother. So even through his hostility, he can let that go when he sees she is in pain. To me, that shows how much he loves her and that he loves her no matter what else he may be feeling about their respective situations.

What I find shows how much Jack still loves Sam - and how much more powerful their bond STILL is despite their seeming estrangement - is that Sam is still able to get Jack to do nearly anything simply by asking. He initially says he won't come, of course, but shows up anyway at the SGC to help them. And it's pretty clear it's because she asked, or more exactly, begged him to. And she knows that, which is the meaning of the look they exchange. Because, of course, he's still hers even after all that's happened. Just like she's his. Which is why, IMHO, Joe seems so resentful of Jack's presence later and is so physically possessive in his body language towards Sam even at the beginning. Like Pete later admits, I think Joe always knew there was a part of Sam that would never be his, but was willing to settle for what he could have. Only, unlike Pete (I think), Joe knew who that part belonged to.

Which makes where 2010 falls in the series so interesting. As much as it's a cautionary tale about the Aschen, it's a cautionary tale too about the futility of Sam and Jack moving on without each other - which is what they're about to attempt to do for the next few years. Without Sam, I think Jack would be destined to turn into that bitter old man (look at him at the beginning of Threads, despite even Kerry), and if it wasn't with Jack, any relationship Sam had was destined to be ultimately unfulfilling...

Still, hindsight et al. I don't think those of us who weren't shippers 'in real time' through the length of the series can appreciate how shocking episodes like 2010 (or Ascension) were when originally shown. 2010, especially, seemed to be 'mocking' so many shipper hopes and dreams. Sam finally at the cabin, finally calling Jack "Jack", but in a context so horrible as to be worse than nothing at all.

[Pol]

Morning

*nods* Yep, that's what I think Same as the kiss in TBFTGOG - just a tiny peck on the cheek and hardly noticeable, but it's there

Wait... :::blink::: what? What tiny peck? Where? When?

Augh!!!

Pol...still have a cast, still can't type worth beans.

[starlover]

Yes, most people in the AF rotate to new assignments every 2-4 years. In that 2-4 years, you might rotate to different jobs in the same unit. Staying in an assignment more than 4 years can stifle your career. The reason isn't so much that you become close with those you work with (although that is a small part of it), it's that they want you to get the experience of the job you're holding, then move on and get the experience of the next job and move someone else into the job you had. For example, Sam holds a pretty premiere slot on SG-1. The AF in real life would not want her hogging that slot for 10 years. They'd want her to get that experience, than move her on, probably to her own team, and get someone else in that slot. Same with O'Neill actually. They'd want others to get the experience of SG-1 leader as well. But then the show would constantly be rotating new people in and out and we've seen how well that goes over.

Thanks for the explanation...and I know in tv shows it doesn't work...but I was thinking how it was in a normal situation.

Also what you say that the AF wants her to go further then being on that team...It makes me think about SGA and her command there...and that she should have a higher function now...(because she did very well)

I just love how much we discuss Sam and Jack's other significant others so much. It always makes me smile. Especially how we always conclude that Sam and jack really have had no other ''significant'' others (with the possible exeption of Pete ) and that, really, they're only right for eachother.

...Because Jack's Sam's guy

*giggles* indeed

Sorry I have nothing more to say..

[Bekki]

So...why am I still awake, I hear you ask? I'd like to know that too! I can see the little orange bits of sunrise, FCOL!

SO, while I'm here in my state of insomnia, I shall poetry spam you all, seeing as it has been ever so long since I last rhymed

Eyes
It's always his eyes
even after ten years
after forgetting
he's still there
knowing me with his
eyes

They mock me
they dare me to tell them why
I haven't met them
Goad me into
revealing all the
reasons that I came
Hoping
without optimism
that I'm here for
me and him,
and us and this
alone

But there is no this
no us
only death, once again
lingering in the shadows
threatening what we have left
and his eyes

Ok, so no rhyming...but 2010 themed, at least...and impromptu Nothing like an insomnia-induced-impromptu poem

Ye gads, morning birds! Stop singing!!!

[JenniferJF]

Wait... :::blink::: what? What tiny peck? Where? When?

Augh!!!

lol. Don't get too excited. It's not really Sam and Jack, but the AU ones who are engaged. Which speaks to what we were discussing on the Continuum Thread - Sam and Jack aren't really into PDAs. Even when engaged it that reality, with him going off almost certainly to die, a hug and a peck on the cheek/neck are as much affection as they show.

[DominaTemporis]

...Because Jack's Sam's guy

...thanks to you now I have that Sister Act song in my head... or Diana Ross...don't remember...

Spoiler:

Nothing you could say could tear me away from my guy (my guy)
Nothing you could do, 'cause I'm stuck like glue to my guy (my guy)
I'm sticking to my guy like a stamp to a letter
Like birds of a feather, we stick together
I'm tellin' you from the start
I can't be torn apart from my guy

Nothing you could do could make me untrue to my guy (my guy)
Nothing you could buy could make me tell a lie to my guy (my guy)
I gave my guy my word of honour to be faithful, and I'm gonna
You best be believing I won't be deceiving my guy

As a matter of opinion I think he's tops
My opinion is he's the cream of the crop
As a matter of taste, to be exact
He's my ideal, as a matter of fact

No muscle bound man could take my hand from my guy (my guy)
No handsome face could ever take the place of my guy (my guy)
He may not be a movie star, but when it comes to bein' happy, we are

There's not a man today who could take me away from my guy

No muscle bound man could take my hand from my guy (my guy)
No handsome face could ever take the place of my guy (my guy)
He may not be a movie star, but when it comes to bein' happy, we are

There's not a man today who could take me away from my guy
(What you say ?)
There's not a man today who could take me away from my guy
(One more time)
There's not a man today who could take me away from my guy

I'm imagining Sam singing that to the stalker, the ambassador and that bunch of creepy aliens...

[Bekki]

BLAST! still not asleep! More poetry incoming!

In a deep dark mountain
In a deep dark sub level
In a deep dark closet
In a deep dark mouth
lived two tongues

the end

Oh yeah...they're getting good...