Daniel Jackson/Vala Mal Doran Ship/Discussion/Appreciation Thread

[Magnecite]

LC - I was just waiting, said in an affectionate manner. I don't like to name names but I have another story on the go, not just Sherval. My Vala, i.e. as portrayed does not come in for much flack, my Daniel is more under fire. I think I keep Daniel fairly true to what I've seen. He is attracted and very wary at the same time which makes for misunderstanding. I also hold the theory that the romance tradition is essentially about misreading or lack of information of each others character - Pride and Prejudice is the quintessential romance novel.

Mag.

[LC_]

LC - I was just waiting, said in an affectionate manner. I don't like to name names but I have another story on the go, not just Sherval. My Vala, i.e. as portrayed does not come in for much flack, my Daniel is more under fire. I think I keep Daniel fairly true to what I've seen. He is attracted and very wary at the same time which makes for misunderstanding. I also hold the theory that the romance tradition is essentially about misreading or lack of information of each others character - Pride and Prejudice is the quintessential romance novel.

Mag.

So you're getting grief about 'looking for love'?...hmmm...the only one review I've read there that's quibbled about anything was LL's...
or is it that you're not getting grief, you're getting people agreeing with your Vala in 'looking' and you don't understand why people are accepting her that way?
and...why were you waiting?...waiting for what?...for me to argue with you?
LC

[Magnecite]

LC -didn't actually mean anything contentious - just know you'll respond to characterization discussions because it's your thing. Also, I do actually respect you as a fanfic writer and you only ever respond to my stuff in a 'damned with faint praise manner.' So, as I actually would respect your point of view, good or bad, it would be nice if you ever let me know what you thought. Possibly on PM, I am not that self-sacrificial. I actually like exchanging views with you, I didn't mean to be aggravating.

Mag.

[Rac80]

On a totally different subject. What do you abbreviate for mobile phones in the US, I know it's still relatively early over there and it is the weekend.

Do you call them cells. That's what's in my head. It's about something in a fic so it is DV.

Plus anyone want to do pic runs would be helpful.

Mag.

yep we call them "cells". or even simply "phones" so many people are giving up landlines these days.

[Magnecite]

Thanks, Lady Rach, thought it was cells. Mag.

[isabelqc]

*sneaks in*
Just dropping off the current chapter of Chains:

LJ: Chapter XV

FF.net: Chapter XV
*sneaks out*

[Magnecite]

I have expectations of this episode, Isa.
Mag.

[Kath Pup]

*sneaks in*
Just dropping off the current chapter of Chains:

LJ: Chapter XV

FF.net: Chapter XV
*sneaks out*

Woo and, indeed, Yay!

Alright, I'll make it official:

Isa is hereby declared Duchess of the Gutter. May she continue to show us the way in filth.

Stef is hereby declared Baroness of the Gutter. May she show us how to stay clean while dipping our toes in.

[LC_]

LC -didn't actually mean anything contentious - just know you'll respond to characterization discussions because it's your thing. Also, I do actually respect you as a fanfic writer and you only ever respond to my stuff in a 'damned with faint praise manner.' So, as I actually would respect your point of view, good or bad, it would be nice if you ever let me know what you thought. Possibly on PM, I am not that self-sacrificial. I actually like exchanging views with you, I didn't mean to be aggravating.

Mag.

NOTE: I tried answering you PM, but I wrote too much and seeing as how it was exactly what I wanted to say I couldn't find anything to delete...SO I'm copying everything I said to here...I don't think I've said anything here that would be considering 'flaming'(at least I hope not)...if you want to continue discussing this, then please PM me a regular email address because the PMing system doesn't allow for posts longer than 2000 characters.
behind spoilers...just so people can choose to ignore this.

Spoiler:

<sigh>...okay, probably most of my reactions to your view of these characters has to do with my own expectations.
Just days before you initially posted I made a Christmas wish for a long, adventure piece with them in an established relationship where they respected and accepted each others strengths and weaknesses and that also included hot sex. So when you showed up offering new fic that held the promise of being fairly well written I was hoping my wish had been fufilled...I believe someone else on the thread actually made that comment. BUT, when I read that the tiny excerpt you posted(I believe it was the where Daniel threatened Vala with rescinding(sp?) the home and security he had given her) and you talked about Daniel being in denial and Vala still being rooted in her past...I was disappointed...and it wasn't your writing...your technique is fine...it was mostly that you seemed to have stalled their emotional evolution together at the beginning of MM...and after watching and seeing the progression of their relationship over the last half of S10 to one of a certain degree of respectful friendship
I can't describe my reaction as anything but disappointment....now if you told me that 'Sherval' took place before MM or maybe during S9, then I'd buy many of Daniel's attitudes...not so sure about his physical behaviour tho...the one thing I've never seen Vala is physically afraid of him...and there was a description in your last chapter of 'Sherval where she seemed to be physically afraid of him....that just felt wrong to me...after all she kicked his ass in PU. Or if you said that by the end of 'Sherval' he's no longer in denial, then I'd be cool with that too.
but as I said...this has got nothing to do with your own writing abilities...this is just my own beliefs of where they are together by the end of S10.

And unfortunately if you enjoy debating opposite points of view, then you've picked the wrong person...my Dad enjoyed starting arguments just for the mental stimulation and I suppose to spout off his own points of view, but he was never willing to accept or concede to anyone elses point of view, so I see debates of opposite points of view as just contentious
I am curious tho, what similar interests do you see us having..well aside from SG, Daniel/Vala and writing.

LC

[Magnecite]

LC -can't do the spoiler thing but our exchanges do tend to go one way don't they. Sorry about that, plus how you explain it, I understand and won't transgress again. Take your points but would point out that Sherval is actually based in part on Vala's character in regression due to the threat of circumstances - that is referred to several times by Daniel. And, yes, I do find Season 9 Vala immense fun, althought I'd argue split loyalties rather than deceit in her reactions plus the influences of the City on both of them. My stories tend to unwind, I don't give it all up at once. I suppose, I have my cake and eat it. Vala's regression allows for certain excesses which I think provide some very funny scenes in the upcoming chapters, it is essentially romantic comedy. ~And romances don't conclude until the end.

Sorry, if that's boring to everyone who hasn't read the story, Mag.

[Magnecite]

PS in conclusion to my exchange with LC, Vala is not afraid of Daniel physically, she threatens to knock him into next week if he manhandles her in my story, (he actually does the manhandling quite a lot in SG1 - he restrains her and drags her around well into Season 10) I think what they both fear, is the emotional impact on their own well established defences in both my story and up to the end of Season 10. I think Unending makes that quite clear.

Sherval is post season 10 but without the Unending showdown.

So, it's all still to happen!!!!

Mag

Again, sorry if that's boring, did try to generalise it.

[gioia]

Okay, I give in. I think when we start talking about another ship, it's getting damn quiet. I'll make a reflection and then duck, because its 02.30 here.

I've talked about characterisation before but a couple of things people reflect on my stories interest me about perceptions of DV.

a. my Daniel is sometimes criticised for being critical of Vala
b. Vala is seen as unquestionably honest and beyond reproach.

Now, these opinions are qualified and written well. BUT, I think sometimes come from wish fulfillment rather than a portrayal of canon DV.

While I accept in Memento Mori, the non-date, date, Daniel gave Vala praise for her work on the team in a professional light, it is clear in Unending that doesn't stretch to emotional responsibility of any kind. He is brutal in defence of his own emotional vulnerability. As my stories are about DV in a relationship, for reasons that aren't about the L word, i.e. one or both are in denial or defensively lying about their feelings prior to any Unending type epiphany, (which was really Daniel beating Vala to a pulp in defence of his own feelings), I think my characterisation is dead-on.

Also, Vala, late in Season 10 is 'always prepared, tool kit in hand, to liberate treasure.'

You don't need to read my stuff to respond to this but I think it's interesting to explore perceptions. And, I except in fanfic, all dimensions are explored.

This is not a criticism of other people's writing, it's just a point of discussion since the thread has gone comatose.

Mag.

Oh, so, you're author of those two fics at FF.Net(Sherval and Looking for Love) I didn't know it! Sweet.

Lol, I don't even imagine how one could think Vala as unquestionably honest. It just sounds crazy. Vala has zillions motives for her actions and I think even she realizes/notices them most of the times. As a character, she is soo messed up. and for this reason, she's my favorite character on TV as of late. She could be so much a funny cliche but there is always some layers behind her cheesiness.

For one, I find your characterazation of Daniel very spot-on. Daniel has really never stop being suspicious about Vala and her motivitions. Look at CoT, it came right after MM -and there is some dislike on the thread for that exact reason for this episode- which is obviously one of the threadstones at their history and Daniel was clearly in suspension about her motivations there. Reasons might change for everyone but whether he was like that because he was trying to denial his feeling by being cynical to her on purpose more than usual or not, the conclusion is the same. He treated her very poorly.

The antigontistic side is one of the basis part of their relationships and I can't imagine even one people who could deny it. For me, Daniel could trust her with his life but not his pocket. Period. I've admit that that's the reason why I like them this much. they're different than the other pairings I always see on TV. They're not childhood sweethearts, they're not great friends who became lovers, Vala's not your usual next door girl. Or their love didn't begin with one of those fights like in the Love Story. They are not usual *opposites attracts* even though it might be the closest interpertion.

You know, in fanfic so many times, Vala is potrayed like being love in Daniel from the very begining, at PU and turned to Earth for Daniel. I don't think it's true. She felt certainly lust but thinking her just returning for Daniel is soo wrong for character wise, so wrong at best. Vala returned for her treasure, and Daniel was like a big bonus because she was lust with him.

Of course, in fanfic, I'd like to read everthing as much as I can, even fluffy pieces, as long as it's written well but saying DV relationships is kitten and puppies, and they're so happy campers is just wrong

Ok, that's my two cents. Please, don't mind to grammer and typing errors. Unfortunately, English isn't my forte

[Magnecite]

I suppose my initial premise was, re characterization, is why people love Daniel and Vala so much and then don't want them to be Daniel and Vala. I admit to being a shameful self publicist but didn't really intend this to be about my stuff. I don't see the immense post MM watershed some people do, Dominion and Unending, for different reasons, showed Vala returning to some of her Season 9 behaviours when under stress i.e. believing she'd lost the support of the team, or being stir crazy on the ship.

My main reason fot this debate was to get the thread moving, it was not meant to upset anyone, if I've done that I'm sorry.

Mag.

[gioia]

Well, I can't talk about everyone but you're certainly not upsetting me. It takes more than that to upset me! And I find this debate interesting. Different opinions alwayd inquired me much.

I suppose my initial premise was, re characterization, is why people love Daniel and Vala so much and then don't want them to be Daniel and Vala.

I think the reason what one wants to see on the onscreen. It's also the main reason of the fanfic, I think. Some might find their chemisty charming but not feeling well about how show treading them and go and write a fanfic how he/she wants to see them.

For Daniel, but there's also another problem. In ten years, I always say we've seen two different Daniels. The eariler Daniel was sweet, naive, cute boy, while the other one -the one Vala has the misfortune or fortune to find most of times. I like the last Daniel more than eariler- quite a mess up, jaded, and sarcastic, cynical, almost sometimes hurtful. after descension. That's understanbale also, dying, ascending and coming back do wonders. But people sometimes confused two characters with each other. In earlier Daniel is still with him, but not as like before. so many times I see this glimpses of Daniel in the fanfics which I assume that people's desire to see Vala and eariler Daniel interact because he was such a good boy and good lover and/or he's arguablely easier to write

Expectations, I guess again.

[Magnecite]

Gioia, yes, I suppose Daniel did start off big blue eyes, floppy hair and tended to be a missionary type figure. But he started to toughen up a long time before he met Vala and always had a sarcastic edge i.e. many exchanges with Jack and always had an inner toughness about him. I think some post-Unending fics are very sweet and tender and like reading them. I think for the longer stories you have to have more of an emotional journey going on because if everything is settled then you are left with drama and not romance. AU's of course give a lot of scope and there are several good one's about, some written by folks on this site. Fanfic is essentially a playground so people can write whatever they like but I like to try and get the characters close to their TV manifestation and work from there. Thanks for your nice comments. And I do think Vala has kept some of her Season 9 excesses which manifest throughout Season 10. Mag.