Daniel Jackson/Vala Mal Doran Ship/Discussion/Appreciation Thread

[JessM]

I'm sorry poundpuppy but I have to agree MM was not a date because he was just taking her out for a nice meal and a nice restaurant. If it was a date he would have ordered a nice bottle of wine, not drank water and would have made it clear that it was a date. Why would he have denied it was a date if it wasn't? I can't think of any reason.

And in a previous post I've already mentioned that IMO it was pretty obvious that Sam and Teal'c were just teasing him because they knew it got to him. It's what friends do, esp SG1, they're always teasing each other. For example, remember 'Message in bottle', when Daniel insinuated that a sergeant had a crush on Sam. It's just fun teasing.

As for the end of MM, when Vala remembered everything because of Daniel, I'll agree it was because it was Daniel saying those things but not because of romantic feelings. Again I've given my opinion on that scene in a previous post, so I'll just re-post it.

I agree. IMHO he took her to a nice restaurant not because he's head over heels in love with her, but because he's being Daniel. I don't see him taking anyone to some crummy run-down restaurant, or anything like a Denny's or McDonald's, because it's tacky. He is glad she has tried to behave and everything and he wants to reward her. I don't see anything romantic behind that. But I know that's just my opinion.

I agree with Sam and Teal'c, although IMHO I thought Sam looked a wee bit ticked off there, although I do agree it was probably mostly teasing and not her acknowledgment of Daniel's feelings of lust for Vala.

I guess that's about all I can say. I don't know if I'll really stick around here anymore because I don't think my opinion really counts for anything anymore.

All I'll say is that I feel D/V threatens Daniel's friendships with Teal'c and Sam. I know many people who are dating and engaged, etc. will stay friends with their old friends but the way TPTB are portraying Daniel it seems he's not really interested in being Sam and Teal'c's friend. Yes, my sig gives me away as a S/D shipper but I don't really ship onscreen anymore. I love the friendships and when they appear to be gone because of something like this, it saddens me.

But I know no one else really understands that or feels the same way so I guess there's no point to staying here. I'm sorry I've wasted all your time

[ObsessiveShip]

Just a little something to throw out my opinion on something...

Spoiler:

I know one of the main things people have against D/V was the fact that they spent so much of their screen time together...and, despite being a D/V shipper I happen to agree that not enough "team moments" between the original three (Daniel, Sam, and Teal'c) were there the past couple seasons.

Having said that, in regards to Daniel paying more attention to Vala than the others in Unending...that I actaully would have been a bit disappointed in Daniel if he hadn't. After all, if they are a romantic couple, arn't they supposed to be together more than just friends would be? And it fits Daniel's character to show a lot of affection to something he cares so much about that he stayed with her for 50 years, even telling her outright that it WASN"T just because they were stuck on the ship.

I guess what I'm trying to say, at least as far as people's complaints about Daniel being completely focused on Vala in Unending...Why wouldn't Daniel spend more time with his significant other than anyone else?

[ObsessiveShip]

I should probably clarify that my last post wasn't directed at all personally to Jess M...since she does, as she noted, seem to be the only non/anti D/V person posting here. I was more looking for somewhere to post that opinion and see what the anti-D/V people's take on it were and knew it would sound way too argumentitive to put it in the anti thread.

Sorry to hear you feel like that, Jess M.

[JessM]

Thanks for letting me know, ObsessiveShip... I appreciate that. I guess I've been a little too defensive about the old friendships (especially Daniel/Sam) lately, and that's because I feel no one respects my opinion and I take it personally when people knock my preferred pairing/friendship,etc. (even the S/D thread has gotten lots of poor ratings and is now the lowest rated ship thread on this forum...and it seems that most of the ratings are from people who feel it's a competition, which imho is stupid... I mean I don't go into the D/V, S/J, Sam/Cam, etc. threads and give them low ratings. If I don't care for the pairings I just stay out of the threads)

But I would like to address what you said before about Daniel spending all his time with Vala in Unending and I really hope you don't get offended because it's not my intention...

Spoiler:

It wasn't so much that Daniel spent MOST of his time with Vala, it was that he spent ALL of his time with her. I understand when people say a person would spend most of their time with their S.O., but ALL of their time? See, I thought you could be in a relationship with someone but still spend time with your friends. To not do that would make you seem extremely selfish, at least IMHO. I'd never thought Daniel to be selfish. But the way it was done in this ep made it look like she was the ONLY one he cared about, and if he truly did not care one bit about his other friends, well I see that as selfish. It makes me think he ignored everyone else the whole time the 50 or whatever years they were on the ship, or if he didn't, that he treated them like trash. I really hope Daniel wouldn't do such a thing.

Again, I'm sorry if this came off as offensive or really sarcastic, but I'm really depressed at the moment because they've killed my favorite friendships onscreen. I just find it so hard to believe that Daniel is still friends with Sam and Teal'c. I wish there was something to make me believe otherwise, but I can't find anything.

So I guess I will leave this thread because I just feel so upset and unwanted and not really respected... and I know a few of you have been nice and I appreciate that... but the death of the friendships are depressing me.

Sorry again, all

[Suebsg9]

I agree. IMHO he took her to a nice restaurant not because he's head over heels in love with her, but because he's being Daniel. I don't see him taking anyone to some crummy run-down restaurant, or anything like a Denny's or McDonald's, because it's tacky. He is glad she has tried to behave and everything and he wants to reward her. I don't see anything romantic behind that. But I know that's just my opinion.

I agree with Sam and Teal'c, although IMHO I thought Sam looked a wee bit ticked off there, although I do agree it was probably mostly teasing and not her acknowledgment of Daniel's feelings of lust for Vala.

I guess that's about all I can say. I don't know if I'll really stick around here anymore because I don't think my opinion really counts for anything anymore.

All I'll say is that I feel D/V threatens Daniel's friendships with Teal'c and Sam. I know many people who are dating and engaged, etc. will stay friends with their old friends but the way TPTB are portraying Daniel it seems he's not really interested in being Sam and Teal'c's friend. Yes, my sig gives me away as a S/D shipper but I don't really ship onscreen anymore. I love the friendships and when they appear to be gone because of something like this, it saddens me.

But I know no one else really understands that or feels the same way so I guess there's no point to staying here. I'm sorry I've wasted all your time

Can I ask what they were ticked off at? I'm not sure what scene you are talking about there? Daniel took some good nature ribbing and handled well; and another thing can you point out when the friendship seem to be effected by Vala? Cause as far as I can tell Vala has been fitting on team nicely?

Just curious; and I am one who has always seen Daniel and Sam as nothing more cause she was to busy chasing Sir everywhere.

Like I said I am just curious. Thanks!

[Rachel500]

Just a little something to throw out my opinion on something...

Spoiler:

I know one of the main things people have against D/V was the fact that they spent so much of their screen time together...and, despite being a D/V shipper I happen to agree that not enough "team moments" between the original three (Daniel, Sam, and Teal'c) were there the past couple seasons.

Having said that, in regards to Daniel paying more attention to Vala than the others in Unending...that I actaully would have been a bit disappointed in Daniel if he hadn't. After all, if they are a romantic couple, arn't they supposed to be together more than just friends would be? And it fits Daniel's character to show a lot of affection to something he cares so much about that he stayed with her for 50 years, even telling her outright that it WASN"T just because they were stuck on the ship.

I guess what I'm trying to say, at least as far as people's complaints about Daniel being completely focused on Vala in Unending...Why wouldn't Daniel spend more time with his significant other than anyone else?

I think you've just voiced the reason why most anti-shippers and noromos would prefer that there be no ship/romance element to the show at all - that the characters would be shown too much with their romantic other and not with their friends ruining the main premise of the show: the team. *EDIT: apologies for huge generalisation about why anti-shippers/noromos may not want ship on show*

I'm a shipper; I think romantic relationships are natural and you would expect most people would have some kind of a romance with someone be it in or outside of their immediate team circle eventually. I also think showing a character in a romantic relationship can be a way of showing a different facet to a character that may not come out even in a deep friendship. However, for me if the show sits primarily in the action/adventure/sci-fi genre then ship should be sprinkles on top of the ice-cream not the ice-cream itself.

In Unending,

Spoiler:

IMO, although I would agree with your statement that during the time dilation given Daniel and Vala were in a relationship he would probably spend the majority of the time with her comparatively speaking therefore why shouldn't that be represented on screen...my answer would be is that it makes Daniel and Vala were very much part of the ice-cream, a raspberry ripple if you will, in amongst the vanilla of the time dilation theme rather than a wonderful chocolate sauce bonus.

*wonders if she's gone too far on the ice-cream analogy*

Anyway, I don't think we needed to see that Daniel and Vala because they were a couple spent a lot of time together - especially in the last episode ever.

If this had been my ship, I would have been happy with a scene at the beginning where they got together which confirms canonically that they do have feelings for each other and they get to kiss - nice bonus. I would have been happy with the group shot where my couple are shown hugging (such as the Christmas scene with Vala on Daniel's knee) as this confirms they continued to be a couple throughout their time on the ship. I would have been happy with the end scene of the 'I want you to know'/'I know' moment as this was sweet and confirmed they had stayed together. I personally wouldn't have needed the other two scenes and I would have been happy for them to have been given over to showing my ship characters with their other friends.

When romance isn't the major genre of a show, there is a balance. I think they just went a couple of scenes too far in Unending to the detriment of showing the team. That doesn't mean I think the other shippy scenes shouldn't have happened; although I don't ship Daniel/Vala I'm OK with the two getting together although I personally wish they had done the first scene differently.

[poundpuppy29]

Don't leave Jess I like our disscussions ((((Hugs Jess)))) For the record I gave the Sam & Daniel thread a 5 star rating when I posted in there I like their friendship I think it is a lifelong one and I really like that they made Vala & Sam friends that bodes well for the S&D friendship in my AU. We all can agree to disagree with our ships and how we see them. Jess you are not the only Anti D&V in here another girl came in. We all see things how we want in our own AU.

[Kales]

Just had to announce this: IT'S SNOWING!!!!! I love Scotland and our freaky weather *happy dance*

AOT

Spoiler:

Do you think they'll go back to the village Tomin and Vala lived in? Imagine the potential for awkward... Daniel and team in the house they lived in, Daniel going with her to her old room til she picks up something and seeing the bed she shared with Tomin...

kay x

[firefly827347]

Kales, I had to drive through that (well, not me, I can't drive yet...) when we went to visit my Gran in Dumfries today. It wasn't pleasant

[JessM]

Can I ask what they were ticked off at? I'm not sure what scene you are talking about there? Daniel took some good nature ribbing and handled well; and another thing can you point out when the friendship seem to be effected by Vala? Cause as far as I can tell Vala has been fitting on team nicely?

I didn't say that THEY were ticked off... I said that Sam looked a wee bit ticked off IMHO. It was the end scene of MM when Daniel kept insisting it wasn't a date. One by one Cam, Sam, Teal'c and Landry left Daniel's office while he was denying it. The look Sam gave him may have been teasing as a sort of "yeah right" but I personally saw it as a bit annoyed/ticked off. But that is just me.

I don't know if you understand what I mean when I said the friendship was affected by Vala. I wasn't talking about HER friendships (as that is what I'm gathering from you saying she has been fitting on the team nicely), I was talking about DANIEL'S friendships with Sam and Teal'c... especially with the last few episodes this season. We don't see the friendship anymore between them.

Just curious; and I am one who has always seen Daniel and Sam as nothing more cause she was to busy chasing Sir everywhere.

Like I said I am just curious. Thanks!

As nothing more than what? Co-workers? Rivals? People who hate each other's guts??

See, that is why I want to leave this thread. Nothing against you, Sue, but it seems to me that an awful lot of people just HATE Daniel's friendship with Sam. Not that they aren't welcome to their own opinions but when no one tells me that these two are still friends well then that can only mean that they aren't right?

And I'm curious too... do you think Daniel is still Sam's friend? If so, can you give me some examples that you've seen?

I really hope you don't hate me. It's just that I'm sick and tired of getting flamed and being put down.

[JessM]

Don't leave Jess I like our disscussions ((((Hugs Jess)))) For the record I gave the Sam & Daniel thread a 5 star rating when I posted in there I like their friendship I think it is a lifelong one and I really like that they made Vala & Sam friends that bodes well for the S&D friendship in my AU. We all can agree to disagree with our ships and how we see them. Jess you are not the only Anti D&V in here another girl came in. We all see things how we want in our own AU.

Aw I wish I'd seen this before I made my last post (though I meant what I said in it to Sue). Thanks hon I am too defensive about the whole thing and I really do appreciate your support. I just hate arguing with people and I'm glad for the most part it's been civil here. I'm sorry for any trouble I may have caused. (((poundpuppy)))

[ObsessiveShip]

I was just looking on youtube and I found a D/V video to the song "Can you feel the love tonight" from Disney's The Lion King! lmao! I don't know why, exactly, but it struck my funny bone that there was a video to that song.

But another D/V video I found that I thought was good was a video to the song "Kiss the Girl", a slightly more rock version of the song from Disney's The Little Mermaid. I know it sounds cheesy, but I thought it worked great! Here's a link:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bLZh6yMLDwI

And just to clarify: I did not make these videos, I found them on youtube.

[SciFiFan]

Just a little something to throw out my opinion on something...

Spoiler:

I know one of the main things people have against D/V was the fact that they spent so much of their screen time together...and, despite being a D/V shipper I happen to agree that not enough "team moments" between the original three (Daniel, Sam, and Teal'c) were there the past couple seasons.

Having said that, in regards to Daniel paying more attention to Vala than the others in Unending...that I actaully would have been a bit disappointed in Daniel if he hadn't. After all, if they are a romantic couple, arn't they supposed to be together more than just friends would be? And it fits Daniel's character to show a lot of affection to something he cares so much about that he stayed with her for 50 years, even telling her outright that it WASN"T just because they were stuck on the ship.

I guess what I'm trying to say, at least as far as people's complaints about Daniel being completely focused on Vala in Unending...Why wouldn't Daniel spend more time with his significant other than anyone else?

This is what I think.

Spoiler:

I used to like the D/V ship, but since they stuck them together so much and argued all the time it left me seeing them as bickering kids. Any romantic thoughts gone. More team moments would have been nice and not just the original three but all five.

In Unending when they got together to me it looked like frustration and anger with the situation is why it happened. I see no romance in him telling her off, and then jumping in the sack, and if it was love why did she leave when they where done, sounds like a quicky to me.

And Daniel paying more attention to Vala then the rest doesn't work, romantic couple or not it would drive them nuts to be together so much with limited stimulation from the outside, they are both active and orinated people they would need to be around others, maybe Vala more than Daniel.

And truthfully I can't see Daniel holding Vala's attention for fifty years. They are to different, he has more in common with Sam.

[MaeveBran]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I would class them as estranged and don't really see it as an obstacle. Maeve, ... and everyone else... what do you think?

First, yes my conseravative Christian background does have me twiching about Vala moving on without resolving her marraige. Personally I believe marriage is between one man and one woman for life.

Having said that, my issue is more of one that it would be out of character for Daniel to get involved with a woman he knows to be married. Look at Icon. He started to have feelings for Leta Kane but the moment he heard her mention husband he stepped back. I personally think after the business with Apophis and Sha're he would be loath to take up with a married woman. That is the way I see his character. This may be influenced by my religious views but I don't think so.

Oh and a small question of less discursive nature:
Do we want them to release each other from vows or him to die? Personally, I like him and think he's a surprisingly sympathetic character, so would prefer for them to agree it's over and him to go home to piece together his galaxy without the Ori and for her to move on... to Daniel, clealry

I like Tomin. In an alternate universe I'd love to see he and Vala work it out. I don't want him to die, but I think Origin is a very restrictive religion and will probably not allow for divorce. So I think he will die. If I were doing it I would have him die to save Daniel or Daniel and Vala. This would up the angst factor and provide more guilt and emotional whump for Daniel and put some more natural stumbling blocks to the relationship. (There by sustaning the will they/ won't they through another couple of movies before final resolution.) I would like Tomin to live but I don't believe it will happen.=)

[Stef]

Ah, I went to sleep and now have 4 pages of posts to catch up on. Okay, prepare yourself for 4 pages worth of responses (I think you get the most, Kales, so PAY ATTENTION!!):

Which reminds me Miss Stef... a long time ago you promised us a fic... and Padfoot, you called me a tease

Um...did I? I actually have had the fic done for months now, I even had someone proof read it for me. I'm very nervous about it though, it's my first real fc (I've written one short vignette about Vala). It just seems that every time I'm about to post it, I read one of your fics or Padfoot's or other equally talented writers' work and feel inadequate next to your greatness, and decide not to post it. One day, I will get up the courage

Ooh Hybridbabe, Stef is going to love you for that one. Didn't her Memento Mori WP use those lyrics?

Indeed, I recall the "You Found Me" wallpaper to actually be my first wallpaper ever for these two (the second being "The Reason" which I think was my first DV video). MM is the first episode that got me insane about DV...hence why it is probably my favorite I really went on a role after that aired....and here I am today.

You know how you forget how much you like songs? Then you listen to them again and remember exactly how good they were? I was listening to random songs and came across this one, think it fits Vala and it's so heart-wrenching... tagged for lyrics.

Spoiler:

Fleetwood Mac, Landslide

I took my love, I took it down
Climbed a mountain and I turned around
I saw my reflection in the snow covered hills
till the landslide brought me down

Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love
Can the child within my heart rise above
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides
Can I handle the seasons of my life

Well, I've been afraid of changing
'cause I've built my life around you
But time makes you bolder
Children get older
Im getting older too

Oh, take my love, take it down
Climb a mountain and turn around
If you see my reflection in the snow covered hills
Well the landslide will bring it down

If you see my reflection in the snow covered hills
Well maybe the landslide will bring it down

And the listen links ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX6WHvxTYHs for the live version, and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkYqXwHOWs4 for the recorded version.

I just love Stevie Nicks' voice so much. PS, I checked if a leyton vid had been made and I don't think so, lol! Fleetwood Mac must be a little too not-of-the-moment or something However there has been a Naley one Seriously, has this show been vidded for every single song???

It has, I'm convinced every song in existence has been used by OTH. I didn't even realize the show was that popular! I also really love that song, Kales. I'll admit, the first version I remember ever hearing was by the Dixie Chicks. I happen to hate them, so I was torn. Fortunately, I found FW's original version (which is better anyway) and now I can listen to it freely without drudging up any anger Am I the only one though that thinks of Lucy Lawless doing Stevie Nicks on SNL? Here's the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXhBUdKXWNs

Trust me, it's pretty hysterical...especially if you know anything about Stevie Nicks or FW songs. Classic.

Oh well. On topic and in the aim of discussion-sparking...
Ark of Truth

Spoiler:

Can I just throw something out here? I know Tomin's marriage to Vala ... Tomin's existence *did I say that out loud?* ... might be seen as a barrier to DV, but honestly, I haven't felt that way since Flesh and Blood.

I guess this is where people's religious views might kick in, so I hope I don't offend, but generally speaking, as a society, we don't hold estranged couples as immoral if they move on prior to divorce. He chooses the Ori over Vala, or she chooses SG-1/anywhere else over him, and although in Line in the Sand he seems to still love her ... Well, there seems to be a recognition there of how impossible their situation is should it have been mutual, which she makes clear it certainly isn't now, especially with the clarity with which they state that Tomin's issue with Origin is in the interpretation by warmongering Priors (wow, how topical...) and not with Origin itself.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I would class them as estranged and don't really see it as an obstacle. Maeve, ... and everyone else... what do you think?

Oh and a small question of less discursive nature:
Do we want them to release each other from vows or him to die? Personally, I like him and think he's a surprisingly sympathetic character, so would prefer for them to agree it's over and him to go home to piece together his galaxy without the Ori and for her to move on... to Daniel, clealry

I agree that Tomin is a likeable character....

Spoiler:

...but, as much as I like him, as much as I like his dynamic with Vala, think he's gotta die. I think that's the only way she'll find real closure. Plus, it's dramatic. Plus, I don't want him coming back I think it would set up some great scenes for Daniel and Vala to share. Maybe we'd get a scene where he talks about losing Sha're. They could get all of that out there in the open It just gives them one more thing in common. Okay, I just really like CB when she gets really meaty stuff to work with

Nice ideas poundpuppy...

Spoiler:

I didn't even think about him coming full circle. That would make for a great ending to the movie. Him saving the woman he loves from the clutches of the Gou'ald.

Well whenever you are done with your fic(no matter what the rating), I know I will want to read it

As for that....

Spoiler:

...yeah, that's what I've always liked about DV. It is about Daniel's journey...he starts out losing his wife and then finds love again. If they chose to amp that up even further in "Continuum" that would be great.

Gioia, overanalysis is fun, isn't it? And good night!

Spoiler:

I admit I am slightly more excited for Continuum than AOT But I look forward to the resolution of the Ori storyline. Do you think we'll see Adria again? And the idea of glowing beings fighting each other and DV goodness *happy sigh*

I really hope that...

Spoiler:

...we see or whatever from Adria again. I just don't think she got a dramatic enough ending. I mean, she was set up this whole season as the big baddie and then just kind of fades to white I want a big, climactic battle between her and Vala (although, I realize now that Adria is now just energy and what not). I want to see Vala finally reach her daughter, and realize that there was a part of her that wasn't ruled by the Ori. That there is a part of Vala in her. We kind of know that, we see how badly Adria wants Vala with her...but I think it would be nice if Vala gets a moment of realization in that area.

Whew!!! And I'm spent. Still with me? Probably not. Anyway, once I get to my apartment, I'll get around to reading everyone's fics and watching all of te ids posted.

-Stef