Who do you ship for?

[yasureubetcha]

Dan/Jan raises an interesting question. To wit: What constitutes 'canon'? In seasons 4, 5 & 7, Teryl Rothery & Michael Shanks played it as a 'ship, and the directors & writers seem to have gone along. Since there was no lip-lock nor any of those awkward discussions that Sam & Jack tended to have, some would argue that it's non-canonical. But since the only thing missing was an explicit verbal acknowledgement, I'd argue that it falls onto the 'canon' side of the fence. But since everybody involved played their cards pretty close to the vest, people who find shipping a distraction don't have to deal with it.

I think that subtlety into which you can read something, or not, is better than overtly 'shippy stuff. But I also think that if the relationship itself (not the chemistry, the rightness, or any other criterion, which are always up in the air) is open to interpretation, then the 'ship isn't canon. I wouldn't have considered the Jack/Sam 'ship potential canon until D & C, before which you could decide for yourself about the potential nature of the relationship. I wouldn't consider a 'ship (at least between major characters) "canon" until you have a line like "I care about her," or some such thing. Then it's a statement of what is, with no room for interpretation, and it must be dealt with.
With minor characters, I'd say that's different. Then you have to assume things, because characters may only be interacting for one or two episodes per season, or even one or two period. But when you see personal interaction in every episode, it's harder to draw the line between 'ship and friendship from looks and banter. IMO, when you're talking about a dealing-with-someone-on-a-daily-basis real relationship rather than a vague attraction or something like it, it takes a more obvious statement to make it canonical. But it goes without saying that this is all just my personal opinion.

[hollyshannensangel]

But of course its ok for us gay people to have heterosexuality shoved down our throats 24/7.

Amen to that...*laughs* I don't even know why I'm saying amen...considering....this is why I love show that...'take the risk'. Hence, the reason I love The L Word, although for me...that show really isn't taking a risk, unless you include the family groups, then that's different...*shrugs*

Cymro.

Sheppard and co...*pauses, pondering how to put this across* well, they come across as straight, because that is what they are. Most if not all writers just stick with boy/girl relationship, but for once I'd like the writers to take the other road. Thank Gwad, for Ellen, as she was the first gay icon that people would relate to. *Pauses* at least I think she was...well, she was the first one on tv....

Cymro-Don't think I'm picking on you, it's just I like to air my voice and well frankly, sometimes, when I do air my opinion it tends to rubs people up the wrong way. But people just interpret it how they want to. *Shrugs*

[Carterslave]

With minor characters, I'd say that's different. Then you have to assume things, because characters may only be interacting for one or two episodes per season, or even one or two period. But when you see personal interaction in every episode, it's harder to draw the line between 'ship and friendship from looks and banter.

No arguments there. I do think it's more fun to 'play along' and discover ships through looks, touches, body language, etc. And if Janet & Daniel never said the 'L' word, they were holding hands—in the hallway of the SGC fer crissakes—in Rite of Passage.
And then Fraiser has that speech in Meridian where she confesses to Carter that she's been tempted to euthanize Daniel, even though it goes against her oath ... her distress prompting Sam to bust out the Goa'uld healing device, for Janet's sake. (Which proves once again that Carter's love for Fraiser trumps all others.)
;-)
Hey, even if I'm a Sam/Janet partisan, I'll stick up for Janet/Daniel—not least b/c they're so darn sweet together.

[CoffeeGirl]

Yep, cause we're the majority, and the majority rules.

That's okay, but how about recognizing that a minority exists? And that the world isn't ending because of it?

Personally, I used to be a Sam/Jack-Shipper for almost 8 years until

Spoiler:

Möbius happened. I decided that I would watch it and decide if I wanted to continue being a Shipper after that. Well, it aired, I watched, felt I was being messed with as a fan and Shipper, stopped watching the show and moved on to the Pegasus Galaxy.

On Atlantis, I ship for Sheppard/McKay, but I'd prefer not to see ANY overt ship on screen because TPTB can't seem to get it right. They should leave it to the fanfiction writers who do a much better job at writing relationships [snark] and storywriting in general [/snark] these days.

[Spaceminx]

Yep, cause we're the majority, and the majority rules.

Ah, the fascist's catchphrase!

[Cymro]

Cymro.

Sheppard and co...*pauses, pondering how to put this across* well, they come across as straight, because that is what they are. Most if not all writers just stick with boy/girl relationship, but for once I'd like the writers to take the other road. Thank Gwad, for Ellen, as she was the first gay icon that people would relate to. *Pauses* at least I think she was...well, she was the first one on tv....

Cymro-Don't think I'm picking on you, it's just I like to air my voice and well frankly, sometimes, when I do air my opinion it tends to rubs people up the wrong way. But people just interpret it how they want to. *Shrugs*

I don't know why you feel like you're picking on me, I find nothing disagreeable about that post, I acctually can't disagree with the logic. It's just part of our culture that people are expected to be diplomatic, and somewhat economical with what they really think, and personally, I'm all for people speaking their minds. I mean, I come here with my own opinions about things and someone else might present an angle I hadn't considered on the subject, which is why I'm here. I've acctually spent most of this discussion trying not to say what you did i.e. I don't want to see Jack, Daniel, Rodney or Shepperd in a gay relationship because they aren't gay, and I didn't want to say that to avoid the stereotypes arguement. The fact is that you can tell some things about a person from the way he talks, acts and of course any previous relationships he may have had. Shepperd and Jack are "everyman" type people, so you can rule them out straight away, and Rodney's too macho to be gay, and Daniel's had way too many women to be gay.

I just don't think these slash ships with existing characters make any sense, and this is Stargate, not American Beauty.

Ah, the fascist's catchphrase!

It's also the basis for democracy, don't you know. And the fact is that a very small percentage of people are gay or bisexual, so the odds of everyone at the SGC being gay are probably even worse than the odds that SG-1 could save earth so many times. Gay relationships are rare, straight relationships are common, that's how it is in real life, that's how it is on TV. Deal with it.

[CoffeeGirl]

The fact is that you can tell some things about a person from the way he talks, acts and of course any previous relationships he may have had. Shepperd and Jack are "everyman" type people, so you can rule them out straight away, and Rodney's too macho to be gay, and Daniel's had way too many women to be gay.

I really hate to burst your bubble, but gay people are as diverse and multi-faceted as straight people. I love all kinds of girly stuff, I'm wearing a pink sweater right now, I listen to Celine Dion when no one's looking and I'm in no way what people call "butch". And yet I'm a lesbian.

Think of it as being left-handed. The majority of people are right-handed, but there are some who are left-handed and they can have all kinds of personalities.

[Cymro]

I really hate to burst your bubble, but gay people are as diverse and multi-faceted as straight people. I love all kinds of girly stuff, I'm wearing a pink sweater right now, I listen to Celine Dion when no one's looking and I'm in no way what people call "butch". And yet I'm a lesbian.

Think of it as being left-handed. The majority of people are right-handed, but there are some who are left-handed and they can have all kinds of personalities.

And all the men I've known who are gay are just as girly as you, and most people knew they were gay before they did. Of course there is diversity in groups, but a lot of the time, instincts are right. For instance, I'm a metal head headbanging metal junkie maniac, but I don't have long hair, do drugs and I'm not angry or manically depressed, but a lot of the metalheads I know fit that description (and I hates them I hates them!!!). You can be girly lesbian, or a manly gay, but odds are you're not.

[CoffeeGirl]

Okay, I guess we agree to disagree. Let's leave it at that. :-)

[Cymro]

I disagree

[sueKay]

I'm agreeing with CoffeeGirl...I have some close friends who are homosexual, and yes some of them fit the stereotype, but most don't. It's the same as saying I'm scottish so I must have ginger hair, a kilt, like Haggis and drink whisky all day long. Stereotypes are never right.

[Cymro]

And this is the arguement I've been trying to avoid. I've discovered that certain stereotypes are right more than you'd think. Obviously nobody fits the stereotype to a tee, but you can still tell, at least, I can. And more importantly, you can tell that Sheperd is not gay.

[Desala]

I had picked Tea'lc/Ishta, Sam/Pete and other slash. I'm a Jack/Daniel slasher all the way. ....But Daniel would have looked cute with Jonas if he had stayed.

[valaCB]

I don't Ship. but if i was it will be Jack/Vala, it will never happen of course...
in the pasy i said Vala/ Daniel but Daniel is too boring for Vala
Jack and Carter was nice but that's it, nothing special.

[Amanda_Tapping_Fan]

Im a:

Jack/Sam
Daniel/Janet
Sam/Janet