Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[IamDKScully]

So my point was not that Jack might have been harassing Sam. Not at all! And also I don't see it that way. Granted, after reading the conversation, it is pretty close assumption that she might have indeed stated similar feelings as Jack.

I just can't help but keep wondering: why the conscious (!) decision to omit what she was saying? Why skip the entire part of her confessing her affection? Was it just cut out, because the episode (or rather the emotional part) was getting too long and taking up too much of the episode? Was her scene ever even written into the script? The audio commentary to the episode doesn't answer the question either, so it is just something that I find highly interesting. What are the motives behind that particular setup of the scene that allows Jack to explicitly tell the audience what he feels, but then leaves Sam's confession as a gap to be filled by the audience?

I think part of it is the way they shot the testing during the episode. The commentary talks about the way the story starts with one person and flows to another so you aren't sure who is talking next but the entire story gets told. Since Jack says it, it's like beating everyone over the head to have Sam say it to. The other things that are said and the LOOK have already spelled it out. IMHO

[Scofield]

I just can't help but keep wondering: why the conscious (!) decision to omit what she was saying? Why skip the entire part of her confessing her affection? Was it just cut out, because the episode (or rather the emotional part) was getting too long and taking up too much of the episode? Was her scene ever even written into the script? The audio commentary to the episode doesn't answer the question either, so it is just something that I find highly interesting. What are the motives behind that particular setup of the scene that allows Jack to explicitly tell the audience what he feels, but then leaves Sam's confession as a gap to be filled by the audience?

Maybe they didn't now what Sam could possibly say about Jack's confession. Maybe they didn't want to put Sam say the same thing. And maybe it was self understood that she would admit she has feelings, because that was the point of all that recheck. At the first check she was a xanax, ops, i mean a zatarc, because she didn't say about that moment, the same with Jack. So...it's a logical analogy, at the second recheck Jack wasn't a zatarc because he confessed his feelings, so it's the same with Sam. IMHO.

[Kimberley Jackson]

A "lie of omission" is still a lie.

Gibbs would certainly disagree with that.

I guess it's a matter of opinion. To me a lie is the conscious telling of untrue facts or circumstances. Neither Sam or Jack told something that wasn't true. Neither of them lied.
If you choose not to mention something, it doesn't mean you're lying about it. Of course there are certainly instances and moments (especially with regard to questions asked) where omission can turn into a lie. But I don't see it that way in this particular example.

[fems]

Gibbs would certainly disagree with that.

I guess it's a matter of opinion. To me a lie is the conscious telling of untrue facts or circumstances. Neither Sam or Jack told something that wasn't true. Neither of them lied.
If you choose not to mention something, it doesn't mean you're lying about it. Of course there are certainly instances and moments (especially with regard to questions asked) where omission can turn into a lie. But I don't see it that way in this particular example.

The zatarc detector disagrees with you!

[Kimberley Jackson]

The zatarc detector disagrees with you!

Later on in the show, in th episode with the camp where Jaffa resisitance and Tok'ra have to live together, they establish that the Za'tarc detector is not exactly reliable and has malfunctioned in the past (with reference to Sam and Jack's test). So I think we can pretty much establish that the Za'tatc detector labeling it as a lie doesn't say anything about whether it is a lie or not.

Besides, Gibbs beats weird alien machine...

[IamDKScully]

Later on in the show, in th episode with the camp where Jaffa resisitance and Tok'ra have to live together, they establish that the Za'tarc detector is not exactly reliable and has malfunctioned in the past (with reference to Sam and Jack's test). So I think we can pretty much establish that the Za'tatc detector labeling it as a lie doesn't say anything about whether it is a lie or not.

The "malfunction" only being that the machine caught the omission and flagged it the same way it flagged everyone else's false memories. Remember, Anise and Martouf debate the effectiveness of the machine from the very beginning because it is "new technology." So, Jack and Sam's situation gives them another point of reference for later. Just a thought.

[Kali]

It's all about the body language and the looks between Jack and Sam during that force shield scene. I've never watched a show where two actors have so much chemistry that they are able to say so much without saying anything at all. It's one of the things I absolutely love about this show. I think the whole team could sit in a room and not speak but easily have a conversation with their eyes and expressions.

,, ,

100% agreed. All four characters have such a connection. It's funny when Daniel says, "Jack" and Jack is like "Daniel" and that's all they say, but there's almost a conversation between them-- if that makes any sense at all. lol

Now...has anyone noticed that Teal'c is SO in the know about Jack and Sam! Watch Metamorphosis and notice his head nod and then how he turns away as Sam lays her head on Jack's shoulder. Look at his face during Divide and Conquer during the Za'tarc test. And, he is there to comfort both Jack and Sam when the other is missing (Paradise Lost and Grace).

Go, re-watch, observe...

knows

Teal'c definitely knows.

All true points Fems. I totally agree their body language is a skill which lacks in nowadays movies. For example, when Sam shows the ring to Jack, only his eyes and the short nod said something like "I regret a lot that it's Pete and not me, but as long as you're happy..". If this situation appeared in a movie from theese days, probably the actor would have said exactly what i wrote betwen "". This would ruin all the beauty and it's also awkward. It would damage as well as the friendship and the potential relation that could have emerged from that situation.
In this series i saw to most intense chemistry betwen characters.

I wonder how many times i will have rewatched stargate after ten years...

Agreed. Jack cares so much about Sam that he wants her to be happy even if it's with someone else. There's no jealousy. In the episode where Sam ends up with the ambassador and Sam comes to Jack and tells him that she and her husband couldn't conceive, he wasn't like "well that's what you get," instead he was sad for her and wanted her to be happy. That's true love on his part. But her ending up with someone else because she didn't support Jack when he was against the Aschen shows that he loves her more. Just my opinion.

[fems]

Agreed. Jack cares so much about Sam that he wants her to be happy even if it's with someone else. There's no jealousy. In the episode where Sam ends up with the ambassador and Sam comes to Jack and tells him that she and her husband couldn't conceive, he wasn't like "well that's what you get," instead he was sad for her and wanted her to be happy. That's true love on his part. But her ending up with someone else because she didn't support Jack when he was against the Aschen shows that he loves her more. Just my opinion.

In my mind, a big part of Jack's reasoning isn't that he loves her more than she loves him per se but that he has already had his chance at love and a family; she hasn't. He's older and has done the whole marriage and baby thing and knows how much happiness (and sadness/devastation) it can bring to someone, and if he can't be the one to give her that then he would prefer she'd find it with someone else so she can at least experience it for herself.

[AmberLM]

Teal'c is the original shipper! Of course he is their protector and confidante in several episodes.

Also I don't think that Jack is beyond being jealous. Yes, he was sad that she was infertile, but his "what does your dearly beloved ambassador say about all of this?" had more than an edge of jealousy about it.

[XFchemist]

Teal'c is the original shipper! Of course he is their protector and confidante in several episodes.

Also I don't think that Jack is beyond being jealous. Yes, he was sad that she was infertile, but his "what does your dearly beloved ambassador say about all of this?" had more than an edge of jealousy about it.

I agree, I think he's still pissed off for whatever happened in the past between them, both for her moving away from him and especially for the lack of trust in his opinion about the Aschen.

[IamDKScully]

Teal'c is the original shipper! Of course he is their protector and confidante in several episodes.

Also I don't think that Jack is beyond being jealous. Yes, he was sad that she was infertile, but his "what does your dearly beloved ambassador say about all of this?" had more than an edge of jealousy about it.

[AmberLM]

Whatever went down, clearly involved Joe finding out about or at least suspecting Jack's feelings for Sam. Why else would Joe and Jack have their little peeing contest over Sam in the Aschen computer room?

[hedwig]

I agree, I think he's still pissed off for whatever happened in the past between them, both for her moving away from him and especially for the lack of trust in his opinion about the Aschen.

I'm of the opinion that whatever caused them to drift apart, that Jack was at least partially responsible for it. He was mad at all of them for doubting him, and we all know how difficult he can be when he thinks somebody has betrayed him. I suspect he was so difficult that even though Sam loved him, she wasn't willing to put up with his behavior in order to stay with him. And he wasn't willing to let go of his hostility enough to see that he was pushing her away.

Plus, he hasn't exactly been supportive of some of his team when they are alone in something - look at how he behaved with Daniel in "Legacy", and with Sam in "Ascension". On the other hand, look at how the team supported him completely in "Smoke & Mirrors" when he was accused of shooting Kinsey. They didn't for one minute believe he did it, even with the evidence pointing to him.

[IamDKScully]

Wow...quiet...

[Kimberley Jackson]

Wow...quiet...

That video is AMAZING!!! The way it plays with the scenes according to the music - STEAMY!!!