Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[majorsal]

However, we can see that to a certain extent, Sam depends on his control - this goes back to her passiveness that we were talking about before. She needs Jack to tell her to not marry Pete. But he doesn't do that, because he knows, it's not going to work that way.

maybe she just wants to know that the man she's in love with is still in love with her. 'grace' showed she was doubting hers and jack's feelings.

[Starship Trooper]

I also don't think he's the complete opposite of Sam; they both are career military and love the Air Force, so they already have that in common. Jack is interested in astronomy and Sam is certainly knowledgeable in that area as well. They're both pilots (regardless of the costume department's oversight in not giving them wings) and presumably love flying and to become a pilot one must know about physics and engineering and whatnot. Jack clearly knows a lot more than he lets on and has 'slipped up' several times when he offers a "dumb" solution which means he totally understood at least the concept of what Sam was talking about, like when he suggests the Ben Franklin thing in Torment of Tantalus. They both love blowing stuff up, are excellent marksmen and probably enjoy various types of exercise as well as they both need to be in shape for their fitness tests. I've never gotten the impression that Sam hates being outdoors (she's only ever complained about sandy planets) and we all know how much Jack loves his cabin, so they're probably both the outdoorsy types, although Jack may be a bit more than Sam. Oh and they both love motor cycles! So I can see them going on road trips or being adrenaline junkies together.

*sigh* Some great shippy images you've conjured up there. I could always picture them off on their bikes together too.

So, I'm pretty sure that's more than Sam has in common with Daniel...

Yeah, I never saw them as having that much in common either, so I agree here too. I know there's a Daniel/Sam thread but I just never saw any chemistry between them. Evidently it hadn't even crossed Sam's mind. When they find Daniel in Fallen and he can't remember anything, he asks her if there was ever anything between them. She isn't awkward or embarrassed, it's just a very straight 'no, we're just very good friends' reaction. The expression on her face is just one of confusion because it's never occurred to her. Now, imagine if it was Jack that had lost his memory and had asked her if there was ever anything between them? Her reaction would've been VERY different.

[Lucycat]

Wow, so much to read and process!!

I'll just state my ideals... Sam and Jack got married after Threads. Sam went to Area 51 and there was a short period where they were no longer in the same chain of command so they scooted over to Las Vegas (Area 51 and Las Vegas are both in Nevada) and had a quickie wedding with Daniel and T in attendance, then they went to the cabin to celebrate.

So Married!!

[majorsal]

Wow, so much to read and process!!

I'll just state my ideals... Sam and Jack got married after Threads. Sam went to Area 51 and there was a short period where they were no longer in the same chain of command so they scooted over to Las Vegas (Area 51 and Las Vegas are both in Nevada) and had a quickie wedding with Daniel and T in attendance, then they went to the cabin to celebrate.

So Married!!

sounds good to me!!

[trinity3]

OOOHHH, interesting point! The Zatarc! It's interesting that you interpret that Sam confessed the same feelings - on the show it is never mentioned though. What did she have to hide in the Zatarc test then? Well, you could also argue that she realized what Jack was feeling, and knew, that once they openly talked about it, one of them would have to ask for reassignment. They did not even talk about it a little! Just imagine: if you are in love with someone you work with - a relationship that you could get fired for - and then you learned in an incident like that what happened. And it came out. Would you not at least talk a few sentences about it?

And actually, if you think back about it and watch the characters up until the Zatarc point, the only hints and flirtations were always coming exclusively from Jack.

Remember though that the reason Sam and Jack were both suspected of being Zatarcs was because they both produced 'false memories' of that specific time frame. They were both leaving out the fact of how they felt for each other which is basically what Sam said to Jack when he was in the chair.

I don't think that's a matter of interpretation there.

Kimberley I must commend you on your question. Whether we agree or not there was a lot of good discussion on the thread because of it.

I was really trying not to jump in here. But...

I remember watching my mom make up a plate for my dad one night at supper and admonishing her for it. I remember saying something like "he's perfectly capable of doing this himself" and stating that if I ever got married, I would never make my husband's plate, he could do it himself.

Flash Forward 20 years...I make my husband's plate for him almost every time I cook.

My point? Over time your perceptions change. Things that are important at 16 are not so important at 38. I think that you can look at Sam and Jack in much the same way. In the beginning, the regs were oh so important. This is a four person team and Sam is the only female. There were so many things that could influence their decision making as well as the perception of Sam as a soldier and her entire team is aware of that. Especially Jack since he's the commanding officer.

Four years later and we have the Za'tarc test and even though we only see Jack confess his feelings, we infer that Sam did the same. The relationship has developed. These people are friends now and have acknowledged an attraction to one another. The regs still stand in the way and neither are ready to step forward and put the other person ahead of their career or their mission at the SGC.

Four years later and we have Sam standing on Jack's porch trying to admit to him the fact that her feelings for him are keeping her from marrying . I don't thing there is any other interpretation of Threads than that. Yes, Sam is an amazingly brilliant woman and she has saved the world single handedly on several occasions, but she is a woman in love and she comes to the conclusion after seeing 's house that she cannot pretend that he will make her happy.

Four years later, we don't know for certain, but the subtle hints abound...

If Jack and Sam made that next step, which I like to believe they did, I think that children would definitely be in the cards, ages and physiologies aside.

I don't, however, think they would have a daughter and name her Grace...IMHO.

I totally agree with you here Scully. Well said.

Wow, so much to read and process!!

I'll just state my ideals... Sam and Jack got married after Threads. Sam went to Area 51 and there was a short period where they were no longer in the same chain of command so they scooted over to Las Vegas (Area 51 and Las Vegas are both in Nevada) and had a quickie wedding with Daniel and T in attendance, then they went to the cabin to celebrate.

So Married!!

Another great post

[Nolamom]

I haven't joined in the current discussion particularly, but I've enjoyed following it. Lots of good points made all around Shippers!

[hlndncr]

Wow, so much to read and process!!

I'll just state my ideals... Sam and Jack got married after Threads. Sam went to Area 51 and there was a short period where they were no longer in the same chain of command so they scooted over to Las Vegas (Area 51 and Las Vegas are both in Nevada) and had a quickie wedding with Daniel and T in attendance, then they went to the cabin to celebrate.

So Married!!

Agreed!

[picardythirds]

Wow. I swear I've only been gone for 24 hours...and come back to 3 pages of discussion?! That's why we love the newbies

My POV on the whole Sam/Jack having kids thing is that they're probably not actively pursing something like that (she's still on the front lines...) but if it happened "accidentally" they would keep and raise the child. Jack would probably be the primary caregiver because Sam would be flying off on the Hammond 3 out of 4 months.

Anyway........today I watched Proving Ground on Space and it struck me how comfortably Sam and Jack are working together in this episode. When they're eating Jello in the commisary or just working together to build the training senario, it's....cute. I can't really use another word to describe it. Especially the Commissary scene. Sam is pretty playful, almost teasing Jack.



I love it when I re watch something that I thought I knew but it turns out to be shippier than I thought!

[Scofield]

I love it when I re watch something that I thought I knew but it turns out to be shippier than I thought!

Exactly! Today i rewatched The Other Guys, and it was shippier than i remembered. Especially when she told Her'ak he doesn't now anything. Her expresion says all

[Starship Trooper]

I love it when I re watch something that I thought I knew but it turns out to be shippier than I thought!

Exactly! Today i rewatched The Other Guys, and it was shippier than i remembered. Especially when she told Her'ak he doesn't now anything. Her expresion says all

I call it 'rose-tinted hindsight'. (I'm sure it's not very original though)

My re-watch revelation (try saying that ten times fast) was Secrets. It was really shippy on re-watch.

At the beginning when Jack says: "...what do you say you and I blow off this medal ceremony thing and go with the boys?", it's like they're mom and dad with the kids.

Then in the gate room when they're seeing Daniel and Teal'c off, the room is huge and practically empty but Sam and Jack are standing right on top of each other at the bottom of the ramp. They are shoulder to shoulder and both look so hot in their blues. We know it, they know it, and there is definite chemistry.

Then in Washington they are so relaxed with each other. He's cracking jokes as usual but it's a little bit different because it's more playful, like he's purposefully trying to make her laugh instead of just joking around for the sake of it. I think he's definitely more charming than he normally is too.

Then he calls her Sam, and refers to her father, a General, as "Sam's Dad". He brings her punch and the looks they exchange... well! It's no wonder Jacob doesn't like Jack initially.

I also liked that we got to see how smart Jack actually is. He is so cool and calm when that reporter approaches him and he doesn't even blink when the tape is played. He turns it around so quickly to talk about the C5 Galaxy. Then later, after the fight with Heru'ur, Sam says: "Good thing you remembered the shield's deflection capability's directly proportional to the amount of kinetic energy directed at it." he just responds "Right. We should get out of here.". He has sooooo been listening all along!

Anyway, I just love it.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

secrets is definitely in one of my top favorite SG-1 episodes list. most of the episodes i like are either team-centered or shippy (like threads).

[iiradned]

Lots of interesting discussion going on here the last few days.

Quite fascinating to follow and shows that our ship is alive and thriving.

Anyway, so married!

[Kimberley Jackson]

Remember though that the reason Sam and Jack were both suspected of being Zatarcs was because they both produced 'false memories' of that specific time frame. They were both leaving out the fact of how they felt for each other which is basically what Sam said to Jack when he was in the chair.

I don't think that's a matter of interpretation there.

I beg to differ. The Za'Tarc technology didn't reveal false memories. It merely showed that they were both suppressing (not mentioning) something that they didn't want to say - hell, to some extent they probably were afraid it would come out, which would mess with lie detectors pretty nicely too. Wasn't Anise asking "Are you sure you're telling me everything?"

Now, just to play devil's advocate here and just for the fun of it: What if in that touching 'invisible shield' scene when Jack didn't want to leave Sam, they had both realized that HE was caring more about her than he should?

Let's not forget, the producers here made a conscious decision to only show Jack admitting it, but not Sam. I am not sure whether it was because they weren't exactly sure how they wanted to portray her character in a confession like that, or whether they wanted to keep it ambiguous whether or not Sam stated similar feelings, or had simply come aware of what he was feeling. Both options would be equally severe for their careers, because technically, they would have had to report it to get reassigned. (I couldn't imagine that happening in any case, because at the least Sam considered Jack a very good friend at this point after all they've been through together.) But that would still create nervousness in them - and awkwardness.

Let's look at that again again closely for a moment:

(BTW, I especially LOVE how his eyes seems to shift to Carter at the end of "Because I care about her..." and then he seems to be directly looking at her when going on "...a lot more than I'm supposed to." It is soooooo sweet!!! *swoons*)

K... back to the point. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that in that wordless scene, he realized that he was caring about her way too much. And from the way she's looking at him, it might have been, "Oh no... that's not good. He cares about me a lot more than he's supposed to."
I admit, it's complete speculation - but the way the entire episode is built up, so is assuming that Carter said the same thing. I'm not saying she doesn't - and I'm not saying she did. Both is possible.

[Kimberley Jackson]

Oh, and btw... has anybody ever watched the clip in French on Youtube? I gotta say, their French voices are freaking hot! I never liked French, even in school, but it made me download the entire show in French and get into learning to speak it as well as English... hehe...

Also there are some pretty interesting variations in a lot of the French episodes. I like how she addresses him so formally "mon colonel" and "vous" which is the very formal version of you and yet the inflections convey how close they are.

But, in "Beneath the surface" in the end, the French actually changed the dialogue which I didn't quite get why, but it completely changes the meaning. In the English original version, Carter starts in the end by calling Jack "Sir", and then he repeats somewhat bumped and sad "Sir..." and she affirms, "Yes". So it's he who is a bit hung up on their experiences.

In the French version, instead of calling him Sir, she calls him Jack. And then he says "mom colonel" as if to remind her of his rank, and that she's not supposed to call him by his surname. And she replies "Right."

Just one of the very fine notions that completely reverses their roles, and it makes me wonder why the translators felt the need to do that.

Just babbling probably, but it's an interesting tidbit that I was wondering if anybody else had ever said anything about it (or noticed it for that matter), and what their opinion was? Any French people here maybe?

[AmberLM]

Kimberly, I can see your point with the dialogue, it's never said that Sam feels the same.

However, I guess it's more the whole "Sir, there's no time... Sir, just go!" "No!" Scene. The way she's looking at him speaks volumes in my opinion.

Sam misses him when he's missing on Edora, she won't go fishing with him initially and then changes her mind (if it were just two friends, surely it would be a simple yes or no answer?).

I suppose if you think about it, we never really find out what she truly thinks until "Grace" when she admits in her head that she has romantic feelings towards him. Hell, she pretty much admitted she loved him during her hallucination ("I'd let you go right now if I knew" "that easy?" "I didn't say it would be easy").

The one thing I loved about the Grace kiss was that there was no build-up over the season. There was a tiny bit of flirting and some pretty steamy looks (the gate room scene in front of her dad and half the SGC had me speechless, they're blatantly making eyes at each other and both grinning their asses off!) but I like the idea that Sam has naughty thoughts about Jack even if she can't admit or act on them. It makes her a bit more human.