Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[Akamaimom]

To be brief (as brief as possible), I think the entire point of Grace, really, was to show this trichotomy in Sam's personality, with each of 'the guys' of SG1 representing a different one of these aspects of who Sam is. It's not until Threads, as you say, when she realizes first that Jacob and then Jack both see and appreciate all of who she is and not simply 'soldier Sam'.

I love your explanation of this episode. Teal'c is the soldier, Daniel the scientist "free thinking" geek, and Jack is the Human. I love that he takes this role rather than the soldier--that he's dressed in civvies rather than BDUs. That he gives her no other tactical advice than what she already knows to do. (and yes, I know that they're all part of her). But the fact that she conjured Jack in that role rather than Daniel is interesting--and telling--to me.

[JenniferJF]

See I come from a culture where marriage is very much stressed, and I've seen a lot of women who settle for something and someone less than they deserve because they too have convinced themselves that it's better to have someone than no one. I have always disagreed with that point of view. I would rather be single. That doesn't mean I'm alone and have no one to love or go home to, and neither was Sam. She had Teal'c and Daniel and Cassie (although I think the loss of Janet probably did influence her decisions about Pete in a negative way), as well as Jack.

See, but I think on the show itself they imply that this desire to be with someone - anyone - rather than be alone is exactly why Sam is with Pete. Specifically, I think that's the purpose of the scene in Affinity when Sam is having the internal debate about whether to accept Pete's proposal or not (from the transcript found here):

CARTER: It's bad enough being on your own without every TV show and commercial and magazine ad trying to tell you how abnormal it is.
DANIEL: I think that's what I just said.
CARTER: I mean, they make you afraid of being alone but at the same time tell you not to settle for anything less than the perfect romantic ideal, like that actually exists *anywhere* in the real world. I mean, either way you can't win. (She sighs irritably. Daniel raises his eyebrows at Teal'c, then turns to Sam.)
DANIEL: How's things?
CARTER: Good. (She glances between Daniel and Teal'c.) We were talking about Teal'c's friend, right?
DANIEL: I *thought* we were.

See, I think here we're getting a true glimpse into Sam's mind. She *knows* she's not in love with Pete the way she should be to marry him, but has given-up on 'the perfect romantic ideal' as being possible (who we'll call Jack) and so is considering settling for less than that because... well... isn't that what one is supposed to do?

EDIT: See, if I say see one more time, see, I'm going to go jump in a lake. See?
EDIT2: *splash*

[hedwig]

And see I always felt that Sam was being less of herself when she was with Pete. She was trying to be what he expected her to be, and what she believed society expected a woman to be. (She even complains about this in Affinity when it is clear that she feels she's being pushed into marriage.) I think ultimately she caves to these outside pressures and what we see is very fake. (Just the falseness of that little coffee shop conversation where the truth of who she is and what she's experienced is pushed aside in favor of the false breezy image makes me shudder.) The real Sam is a soldier. And maybe a little too serious, and she thinks too much (she's admitted that). But it is her, a real woman.

That is one of the many reasons I love Jack, and know he is good for her. He sees all of her. And he loves all of her. He is proud of her skills as a soldier (The Warrior), and impressed by her brilliance as a scientist (Redemption) and he clearly loves her as a person (Threads).

She is completely herself when she is with Jack and I think she finally realizes what an illusion her relationship with was; she was fooling herself into accepting what she believed others expected of her. (Although, maybe that does go back to her soldier trait of always trying to be the best and follow orders.) Thank heavens the real Jacob (not the illusory image in Sam's mind) was able to finally convince her to see that she didn't have to let others' expectations dictate her happiness.

I'm in agreement with most everything in your post.

On the other topic about Chimera. I admit, I haven't watched Chimera all the way through! I wasn't really aganist Sam having a boyfriend, I just didn't need to see it all in detail. And they made him out to be such a tool! How can TPTB hope to have us like a guy who doesn't trust Sam? Who stalks her and ruins a classified stake-out and gets his ass shot in the process?? I think she should have dumped him early on... he certainly should not have been given any kind of clearence to the most top secret organization on the planet! That was ridiculous!

... and yours. Though I have watched the episode all the way through.

I would add that I would have at least like to have seen Pete get reprimanded or punished for what he did, instead of pretty much being given permission to hear all about the Stargate program. It was like he was a very naughty boy, and instead of being scolded he was given a great big present for doing so. He should have been at the very least temporarily suspended from his job, since he wasn't even on duty when all this happened, and he used his job to get classified information for personal reasons. I suppose he could have been reprimanded, but we never heard about it, and I just wish there had been something to show him what a jerk he had been.

And regardless of what kind of life Sam thought she might have with him and how forgiving she is, I truly don't think she could have gotten past this and kept seeing him.

I suppose I didn't mind too much that she was dating somebody. But I totally don't think it needed to go so far as to have her get engaged to the guy. Some people think that was ok; but I don't. I was actually very offended at the way she was portrayed over the whole matter. For me it was like watching somebody who wasn't really Sam Carter.

Hmmm ... so much for not making much of a comment about this.

[majorsal]

these old wounds don't always heal, just scar over to irritate us sometimes when we stretch.

[hlndncr]

I agree she was 'playing a part' and trying to meet other's expectations of being a 'woman on a date' with Pete, but I don't think 'a soldier' is who she is any more than that person on the date with Pete. I think she was acting a part to meet others expectations of a soldier (*cough* Jacob *cough*) in most of the rest of her life just as she was 'acting' with Pete.

Good point. I agree that "good soldier" was definitely one of the parts she played, for her Dad, and sometimes even with Jack (although I could see that as the series progressed she became more comfortable with pushing back against Jack when necessary). I guess I was trying to say that soldier is still a part of who she is a whole person, and she was trying to deny that part of herself with .

[JenniferJF]

Good point. I agree that "good soldier" was definitely one of the parts she played, for her Dad, and sometimes even with Jack (although I could see that as the series progressed she became more comfortable with pushing back against Jack when necessary). I guess I was trying to say that soldier is still a part of who she is a whole person, and she was trying to deny that part of herself with .

*holds hlnd's hand and sings Kumbaya to show agreement 'cause she can't green her.*

And would now be a good time to admit, in my head, your name comes out sounding exactly like "Hilda"?

[yessika]

Unending: I liked the episode but there are things that would have made it better, such as Jack making an appearance or at least being mentioned, but as a series finale I rank it as low as the X-Files finale (which is pretty low). As much as I love reset episodes, they don't really work well for season or series finales.



Oh, and today I think it was SAM



Edit: On the whole thing, I think Sam should have dumped after he crashed the stakeout. Oh and I agree with Jenn and hlndncr

[L.A. Doyle]

Goodness…the controversy! Unending…Sam or Jolinar…Pete! So not gonna touch any of that.!

In my book, Sam and Teal'c did not/would not happen and Unending wasn't the best finale…it depends on the day whether I think it was Jolinar or Sam…and I won’t ever like Pete except he helped Sam see Jack was the only one for her!

[hlndncr]

*holds hlnd's hand and sings Kumbaya to show agreement 'cause she can't green her.*

And would now be a good time to admit, in my head, your name comes out sounding exactly like "Hilda"?

OT My Name:

Spoiler:

It is short for highland dancer (an athletic and competative form of Scottish dancing), as I used to dance compete and now I teach. I also dance and teach Scottish Country Dancing (SCD), which is the social/ballroom form of Scottish dancing, mainly from the eighteenth century.

I like to imagine the men of SG1 in kilts.

But you can call me hilda if you like.

[IggyMing]

Goodness…the controversy! Unending…Sam or Jolinar…Pete! So not gonna touch any of that.!

So, now that we've touched all three of the Shippers' Most Controversial Topics in the space of a few hours, what will we have left to talk about tomorrow?

I would add that I would have at least like to have seen Pete get reprimanded or punished for what he did, instead of pretty much being given permission to hear all about the Stargate program. It was like he was a very naughty boy, and instead of being scolded he was given a great big present for doing so. He should have been at the very least temporarily suspended from his job, since he wasn't even on duty when all this happened, and he used his job to get classified information for personal reasons. I suppose he could have been reprimanded, but we never heard about it, and I just wish there had been something to show him what a jerk he had been.

And regardless of what kind of life Sam thought she might have with him and how forgiving she is, I truly don't think she could have gotten past this and kept seeing him.

Yes! Totally agree.

OT My Name:

Spoiler:

It is short for highland dancer (an athletic and competative form of Scottish dancing), as I used to dance compete and now I teach. I also dance and teach Scottish Country Dancing (SCD), which is the social/ballroom form of Scottish dancing, mainly from the eighteenth century.

I like to imagine the men of SG1 in kilts.

But you can call me hilda if you like.

And here I thought your name might be Helen

[Seahen]

So, now that we've touched all three of the Shippers' Most Controversial Topics in the space of a few hours, what will we have left to talk about tomorrow?

Grace: What does she represent.

[Akamaimom]

Grace: What does she represent.

Must. Not. Open. That. Can. Of. Worms.

[yessika]

So, now that we've touched all three of the Shippers' Most Controversial Topics in the space of a few hours, what will we have left to talk about tomorrow?

I don't know, I think we can talk about how awesome Sam and Jack are

Grace: What does she represent.

or that ^^

[hedwig]

Must. Not. Open. That. Can. Of. Worms.

Oh, ... pshaw!

We've opened the other can o' worms today; why not the rest? And be surprised ... like Wyle E. Coyote diving off a cliff ... or some such thing.

Lead on ...

[Seahen]

I always thought she represents Sam's inner Urgo. "BOOOOORING!"