Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[hedwig]

Egads don't even get me started on this. I worked at Disney World for a year and a half and the way parents caved to the kids made me want to scream.

I'll be Jack and Sam wouldn't put up with that stuff

I never knew whether parents caved, since I made a mad dash for the door when I heard that sort of commotion.

[Akamaimom]

OT Verucas. . .

Spoiler:

I never knew whether parents caved, since I made a mad dash for the door when I heard that sort of commotion.

Spoiler:

I don't. And my kids know not to even bother asking. The worst, though, is when it's 10 pm, and the kids are tired and crying, and the parents are yelling at them. I have intervened on many occasions. Grrr.

Disneyworld/land OT Verucas:

Spoiler:

I took my kids to Disneyland for Christmas this year, and was appalled at how many kids--seven, eight, nine years old--I saw being pushed around in strollers while they played Nintendo or some other handheld games. They would play until they got to the front of a ride and then get out and do the ride and then get back into the stroller and play until the next ride. It was nauseating! My five year old walked the entire park just fine, thank you!

And kids and Jack and Sam--NO. Their kids (if they have them in your world) will be tough, smart, and will know who is the parent and who is the child. My vision of Sam and Jack with kids. . .HERE

[Nynaeve506]

OT Verucas. . .

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

I don't. And my kids know not to even bother asking. The worst, though, is when it's 10 pm, and the kids are tired and crying, and the parents are yelling at them. I have intervened on many occasions. Grrr.

Disneyworld/land OT Verucas:

Spoiler:

I took my kids to Disneyland for Christmas this year, and was appalled at how many kids--seven, eight, nine years old--I saw being pushed around in strollers while they played Nintendo or some other handheld games. They would play until they got to the front of a ride and then get out and do the ride and then get back into the stroller and play until the next ride. It was nauseating! My five year old walked the entire park just fine, thank you!

And kids and Jack and Sam--NO. Their kids (if they have them in your world) will be tough, smart, and will know who is the parent and who is the child. My vision of Sam and Jack with kids. . .HERE

Kids OT

Spoiler:

People comment how well behaved my 3 year old is and it's simply because certain behavior just simply isn't tolerated. My son knows when I say "x" I mean "x" and that's that. Sure he does toddler things - and no I'm not always the perfect parent - but discipline in my house is swift, consistent, and decisive... and so are hugs and kisses in case anyone is worried

I'm not a kids person even though I have one. I suffer through the nursery at church just so I'm doing my part LOL.... so I don't do kid!fic otherwise I'd read it.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

Kids OT

Spoiler:

Being a kid growing up I listen to What my dad and my mom said. If they said "jump" I would say "how high?" If I wanted something and they said no I would understand. Maybe because money was tight or if it was my birthday coming up or Christmas then I would just wait. I had one temper trantum when I was 2, banged my head against a wall and since then I never acted out. I am a result of Good Parenting.

[Seahen]

*snip snip*

OT for command/ranks/Mitchell (look what I started )

Spoiler:

Thanks for explaining things from the military POV. Unfortunately it doesn't change my opinion. These are details that general public doesn't know nor care about. For your average viewer it looks like this: Sam had command, her team got disbanned, then new, totally inexperienced guy came in, got the team together and made her - previous CO with tons of experience he doesn't have - serve under him. Because he's a guy and she's a woman.

My personal issues however don't have anything to do with his command experience (or lack thereof). My biggest problem is with retconning and the way Mitchell was written as extremely incompetent and everybody else as happy about it. Canon of the first 8 seasons established that you have to go through proper training even to become a member of SG team, let alone its CO...and yet somehow it didn't apply to Mitchell. As I said I don't know much about the military but I can't believe that leading a squadron of pilots on Earth can prepare you for exploring alien planets in a ground force unit. He shouldn't have been allowed near the Gate without training and shouldn't have been given command without gaining some experience first. Especially since in season 9 he was written as someone who didn't have common sense, let alone leadership skills (getting his team captured, tortured and nearly killed because he disregarded their advice, risking the entire operation because he was in a bad mood, drinking alcohol on duty, going AWOL on a diplomatic mission to have sex with a local, offering to use his influences to score points with said lady..and I'm just warming up).

And the worst thing for me was that Sam was written as happy about all this. Seriously, he almost gets her and her team killed and she behaves like nothing happened. These are my issues with Cam.

And for the record, I don't hate him. I used to, I admit, but I've mellowed over the time. And I mean no offence to Cam fans.

OT:

Spoiler:

I understand where you're coming from. For me, it made sense that he was given command initially since the Gou'ald had been taken care of, and the Replicators too, and the rest of SG-1 was gone. It was time to bring in new blood and get them experience. And for all we know, he did get that intital "Off-World" training that they showed in the episode Proving Ground. They never said he didn't I don't think, but I could be wrong. Or he may have recieved it as part of his F-302 training. He had been part of the SG program before this after all. Plus, pilots receive a lot of combat training. They go through the survival school, they plan and execute combat missions constantly. But, you're right, not everyone knows that.

I never really saw him as incompetent, more that he made mistakes. And he recovered and learned from them. And honestly, SG-1-Classic made mistakes all the time. Off the top of my head, Sam almost killed a planet (Red Sky), Jack slept around and got nanites (okay, he was drugged, but still...), Sam broke cover to go to Jack and got killed (and later revived by the Nox), Sam let her evil twin lose on the universe, Jack essentially created "Evil" Fifth, Daniel touched things to often, Teal'c... uh... Teal'c... I got nothing. Teal'c's perfect.

There's only one time in my memory where he really works against the advice of the team and that was "Off the Grid" I think. The one with the Space corn? Yeah, he was kinda an idiot in that one. But he learned from it I think.

Personally, I think the character of Sam works for the story best not being in command. She's the technobabbler. She needs someone to babble too. When she's the boss, she has no one to babble too. I think that's why so many stories in season 8 were told from Earth, so that she could babble to General Jack back at the SGC. But that's just my own personal opinion of course.

Now, all that aside, I should probably mention that I adore Ben Browder so Cameron could only be perfect in my eyes.

I never disliked Cam. I just disliked the way he was written as basically being "given" SG1 when (as others have said) he had literally no offworld experience, and there had always been that "nobody goes through that gate without the proper training" bit.

Plus, I was always under the impression that Sam and Cam were the same rank at the time of "Lost City" - Majors. And that Cam was promoted to Lt. Colonel probably about the time he was given his Congressional Medal (or whatever it was), which was during his stay in the hospital, likely after Jack was rescued from Antarctica (which was a couple of months after "Lost City"), and was promoted about the same time Sam was in "New Order". I was under the impression they've always been the same rank. Sam got promoted to Major after in Season 3, "Fair Game"(?), and to Lt. Colonel 4+ years later. I could never see the rank insignia Cam wore in the flashbacks to "Lost City", so i couldn't say what rank he was.



What is SG: Resistance?

No, Cam was a Lt. Colonel during Lost City. Trust me, I was watching diligently for just those kinds of things when Avolon first aired.

Click for proof...

Spoiler:

Flashback scene from Avalon. This is the pre-mission brief before the Antarctica battle.

Notice the dark blob on his shoulder? That's a dark blue oak leaf.

[IggyMing]

Apparently David deLuise "groped" her without it being in the script, and his own brother called him on it later.

That's interesting.... I've never heard that before. Thanks for sharing
Makes me wonder what AT thought of that.

[IggyMing]

So at the end of the day if you don't like S9/10, I can't convince you to like it - but I do I think some of the strongest episodes happen in that final season. I love SGU and I love the level of thought I know has gone into the series.

I've been rewatching the entire series on Space, and they're finishing up S8 tonight. Tomorrow, they're going to show S9's Avalon. I never did watch S9 and 10 on a consistent and continuous basis when they first aired, and consequently, I was very "meh" about them. But now, I have the opportunity to rewatch them, so I'm going to give them (and Cam and Vala) another chance. Maybe I'll enjoy them more the second time around.

As for SGU, I'm also a big fan. I'm enjoying it very much, and applaud TPTB for taking the chance on doing an SG show that's a bit different from the SG1/SGA style.

[IggyMing]

And kids and Jack and Sam--NO. Their kids (if they have them in your world) will be tough, smart, and will know who is the parent and who is the child. My vision of Sam and Jack with kids. . .HERE

How on Earth did I miss reading this story when I thought I had read all of yours? I'll have to read it in its entirety.
As for S/J kid fics, I am a *HUGE* sucker for them. Bring 'em on, I say

[hedwig]

No, Cam was a Lt. Colonel during Lost City. Trust me, I was watching diligently for just those kinds of things when Avolon first aired.

Click for proof...

Spoiler:

Flashback scene from Avalon. This is the pre-mission brief before the Antarctica battle.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...rgate02007.jpg
Notice the dark blob on his shoulder? That's a dark blue oak leaf.

I'm not seeing any oak leaves. Just a dark blob.

In his background on wikipedia, it says "Mitchell achieved the rank of Captain and became an Air Force fighter pilot." (according to the Lexicon entry on Cameron Mitchell). From there "Mitchell was promoted and selected for a position in the top secret F-302 program at Stargate Command. ..... Some months later, Earth came under attack from Anubis, and Mitchell, as 'Blue Leader', led the F-302 pilots from the Prometheus that engaged Anubis's fleet in a dogfight over Antarctica." So, in my own little fantasy world (), regardless of what that blue blob is on his jacket, he was a Major in Season 8's "Lost City". (I figure he was promoted "after the fact" when the filming of the flashback was done for "Avalon".)

[Seahen]

I'm not seeing any oak leaves. Just a dark blob.

In his background on wikipedia, it says "Mitchell achieved the rank of Captain and became an Air Force fighter pilot." (according to the Lexicon entry on Cameron Mitchell). From there "Mitchell was promoted and selected for a position in the top secret F-302 program at Stargate Command. ..... Some months later, Earth came under attack from Anubis, and Mitchell, as 'Blue Leader', led the F-302 pilots from the Prometheus that engaged Anubis's fleet in a dogfight over Antarctica." So, in my own little fantasy world (), regardless of what that blue blob is on his jacket, he was a Major in Season 8's "Lost City". (I figure he was promoted "after the fact" when the filming of the flashback was done for "Avalon".)

Well, if it's on Wikipedia...

The screen cap is not the greatest but that is a subdued (blue instead of silver) oak leaf. If he was a major it would be gold/yellow, which would be pretty noticeable. If you don't want to believe me that's fine. He was a Lt Col though. During the events of Lost City. So...


EDIT: Here's a better screen cap And to compare, a major would look like the guy on the left.

[gater62]

you know you will never hear that about Richard Dean Anderson doing something like that. he and amanda got too much respect for one another. I think David deluise just got a little carried away.

I think David just got a little too into his part! *wonders if he's a method actor*

[Pol]

Hi folks,

So I'm trying to squeeze another Campfire into the madness that is my summer, and rewatched Shades of Grey. Keep in mind that I've only ever seen the ep one other time.

There's this:
CARTER
sir?

[O'Neill stops and turns around.]

O'NEILL
What?

CARTER
Is there anything I can do?

O'NEILL
About?

CARTER
Well, sir, with respect you aren't exactly acting like yourself.

O'NEILL
No Carter. I haven't been acting like myself since I met you. Now I'm acting like myself.

[Carter looks hurt as O'Neill walks away.]

Now, that O'Neill line can be delivered in a ton of ways for various meanings (bolded for emphasis on words):

O'NEILL
No Carter. I haven't been acting like myself since I met you. Now I'm acting like myself.

We'll call that Jack-centered.

versus:

O'NEILL
No Carter. I haven't been acting like myself since I met you. Now I'm acting like myself.

We'll call that...oh, I don't know. Pissy Jack.

And then there's how it was delivered in the episode:

O'NEILL
No Carter. I haven't been acting like myself since I met you. Now I'm acting like myself.

I know this was a painful scene, and it's the equivalent of the Jack/Daniel push-away scene later, but I like how the emphasis was on Sam. Jack hasn't been acting like himself since he met SAM, but now he has changed behavior, he's ACTING.

Nothing overtly shippy, but it could have played a lot of ways...I like that RDA emphasized SAM in this take and that it seems he tried to hint at the whole deal.

[Akamaimom]

O'NEILL
No Carter. I haven't been acting like myself since I met you. Now I'm acting like myself.

I know this was a painful scene, and it's the equivalent of the Jack/Daniel push-away scene later, but I like how the emphasis was on Sam. Jack hasn't been acting like himself since he met SAM, but now he has changed behavior.

Nothing overtly shippy, but it could have played a lot of ways...I like that RDA emphasized SAM in this take.

I've always thought that this was a very telling line. That her idealism and honest nature forces him to take another look at himself and self-edit some of the things that he does. I really do think that his being in the company of Sam and Daniel for so long has changed some of his perspectives. I know that he's an inherently good person, but I also know that given nudges in other ways, he'd be able to make alternate choices while still acting within the sphere of what he's comfortable doing.

Does that make sense?

And he could have played that in many ways, but he played it, in my opinion, the BEST way. Sam-centric. . .

[JenniferJF]

Disneyworld/land OT Verucas:

Spoiler:

I took my kids to Disneyland for Christmas this year, and was appalled at how many kids--seven, eight, nine years old--I saw being pushed around in strollers while they played Nintendo or some other handheld games. They would play until they got to the front of a ride and then get out and do the ride and then get back into the stroller and play until the next ride. It was nauseating! My five year old walked the entire park just fine, thank you!

rofl. OT:

Spoiler:

I had the same impression the last time we went to the zoo. Parents walking the park pulling their older kids around in wagons. It's no wonder we're faced with just about the first generation of kids who are in poorer physical condition than their parents. Even my kids commented on it. (of course, my kids whined about having to walk but were still running around when we stopped for a 'rest' at the playground.)

[JenniferJF]

I know this was a painful scene, and it's the equivalent of the Jack/Daniel push-away scene later, but I like how the emphasis was on Sam. Jack hasn't been acting like himself since he met SAM, but now he has changed behavior, he's ACTING.

Nothing overtly shippy, but it could have played a lot of ways...I like that RDA emphasized SAM in this take and that it seems he tried to hint at the whole deal.

Yes, that's how I've always scene that scene between Sam and Jack. He's *trying* to tell her he's ACTING. It's actually a fairly significant comment and, taken in light of everything that happens later not only in the episode but in the series, very telling as to the extent of introspection Jack's been doing. He's already coming to realize he's becoming a 'better' person because of his time with SG1.

I'd add, though, I think he has a similar moment with Daniel later at his (Jack's) house:

Spoiler:

DANIEL
If you really believe that, I guess, ah, I guess I never really knew you at all.
O'NEILL
Come on. You're a bright guy. You had to sense some of this.
[Daniel doesn't answer.]
O'NEILL
(cont'd)
Then no. I guess you couldn't relate to me any more than I could to you.
DANIEL
So this whole, ah, this whole friendship thing we've been working on in the last few years is…
O'NEILL
Apparently not much of a foundation there, huh?

I think this, especially the bolded bit, is Jack trying to get Daniel to make the logical connection. If you watch RDA's performance, there's a sharpness and significance as he delivers several of these lines. And I mean true classic logic: If Jack believes that, then Daniel is wrong about Jack. Jack immediately *confirms* Daniel is smart - which essentially tells him he is *right* - and the 'you had to sense some of this', since Daniel didn't, should be a big clue to Daniel as to what is going on. I think it's a case of everyone underestimating Jack's actual intelligence. But it's early days, relatively.