Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[Kate1013]

Why is everyone suddenly looking at me?

Oh. Yeah. Jenn's 'Sam's hair theory'.

You see, waaaay back in S9 I postulated this very thing - that the length of Sam's hair was directly proportional to how close she was to Jack O'Neill personally. If you recall, she started letting it grow a bit longer and less controlled starting in S9. Of course, I had several very rational (in Jenn!world) reasons why this was, mostly stemming from the fact that I think Sam - left to herself - likes having long hair and that her wearing it short 'for the Air Force' (even though the regs are only she had to keep it up) was symptomatic of her trying to conform herself into the perfect Air Force officer instead of being true to herself and who she is. So, it's not obviously that 'being with Jack' means Sam had her hair long (or vice versa) but rather than both having longer hair *and* being with Jack are a result of Sam's coming to accept and appreciate herself for the woman and person she is rather than trying to fit into anyone else's mold.

(that was short. Many of you are very happy it was, aren't you? )

EDIt: To be clear, I don't actually care what the real world reasons are. Those don't interest me at all

Haha! Fantastic reasoning! I'd never really thought about hair that in depth before, but now.... well lets just say I agree with you!

[Florena]

I think it was not just for sam difficult to admit that she loves him, but for jack even more.
I always wonder how he must have felt during threads. At that point I think of Charly, and jack must have had a very hard time to alow him self to be happy again.
I´m self a mother of a child, and if to my kid something so terrible would happen I would never allow myself to be happy again, so I think it must have been terrible for jack. I believe he often wonders what charly would think about his love for sam and I think jack feels guilty for loving sam too and this insecurity how it would be if charly would still live.
I often wonder if jack would love sam and be with her if charly would be alive (and I believe Jack often wonders that too) and it must be sad for sam too that she´s just the "second choice" we know, she isn´t, but I would feel that way.
I hope that all makes sense.

[Kate1013]

I agree with this--and even going back to season 4, when shippy angst and flirtiness was at its peak, her hair was at its longest. And at the end of Beneath the Surface, the unbelievably sad "Sir"--"Sir" exchange, the haircut kind of seemed to formalize their going back to her genderless and sexless and angstless existence.

And incidentally, that's what my paper's thesis was--

Spoiler:

that hair on a woman symbolized her womanhood/virtue (think Bernice Bobs Her Hair, Les Miserables, and Rapunzel) and losing that hair somehow symbolizes her fall from grace. So, the converse must be true--that growing back the hair would then return some of the femininity to the woman.

Actually I just realised I wrote a ficlet about this very point a while ago... maybe that thought wasn't so random after all....

[JenniferJF]

Haha! Fantastic reasoning! I'd never really thought about hair that in depth before, but now.... well lets just say I agree with you!

That's because, as a general rule, sane people don't.

EDIT: And speaking about fishing, here's how to get her to really go with you:

[majorsal]

Still with Sam's reaction on that "excuse me" it is IMHO angsty because it almost seems like she sees it as a reprimand because she corrects herself thus I think from Sam's point of view it is angsty while Jack perhaps meant his "excuse me" in a different way.

i'm also thinking that jack's 'excuse me' was a splash of cold water to sam, b/c she realized she was back to the *normal* world with jack. i think that's when she saw she wasn't hallucinating anymore... i think she liked the pretend world more at that moment.

[starlover]

*whistles innocently*

*drops*

The muse is on a roll...

[Keaira Taegan]

i'm also thinking that jack's 'excuse me' was a splash of cold water to sam, b/c she realized she was back to the *normal* world with jack. i think that's when she saw she wasn't hallucinating anymore... i think she liked the pretend world more at that moment.

i agree i think that moment is a bit angsty given that it is a harsh welcome back for Sam to the world of the reality, and thus i think its angsty, since im pretty sure IMO that Jacks "excuse me" may not have been meant as reprimand reprimand, more as a reprimand/cant believe she just said that kind of thing. and honestly, who wouldnt want to go back that halluncinating world of kissing Jack? haha

*whistles innocently*

*drops*

The muse is on a roll...

that is gorgeous! simply love it

[JackandSamAddict]

i'm also thinking that jack's 'excuse me' was a splash of cold water to sam, b/c she realized she was back to the *normal* world with jack. i think that's when she saw she wasn't hallucinating anymore... i think she liked the pretend world more at that moment.

Totally agree with this and the 'excuse me'. I think it is right on.

[UhSir]

And yet, she starts to tell him what she's thankful for and then backs off, and two episodes later starts dating Pete even after that imagined kiss. If that's not withdrawal and backing off, I don't know what is. If that scene were fluffy and sweet between her and Jack than why does she do that?

EDIT: As in, I'm really asking, why do you think she starts dating Pete?

Research and experimentation.

Isn't there some psychological classification for people who are brought together by something traumatic and they start a relationship then it all falls apart after things settle down? This is what I see Sam thinking her feelings could be for Jack. She needs to find out if their feelings are the stick-to-your-ribs kind or is Jack simply a knight in shining armor.

Sam would have started dating Pete with or without the experience in the episode of Grace. It's not like she woke up in the infirmary and thought "Oh my God, I have no life!" She'd been mulling over these thoughts for a long time. We weren't seeing it because the show isn't a soap opera. It's Stargate and the Stargate way is to smack her upside the head and show us with hallucinations. One of those being Jack telling her he will always be there for her.

And of course he's right there when she wakes up. Since Jack can't grab her and hug her and kiss her, he resorts to his normal way of showing his affection and that's teasing her. But when he starts with the relative time stuff she cuts him off because her brain can't handle it. So he keeps the conversation simple after that.

Emotions + Sam = Overwhelmed. Factor in a concussion and she's overloaded. That's what happened when Jack asked why she had thanked him. It's hard enough for her to recognize her feelings, now talk about them? Yikes! Brain reboot! So when she tells him "Nothing" she means "Everything." I see it this way because she's smiling when she says it and her eyes never leave his. I think Jack sees it that way too and when he tells her he's "got plenty of that" it's just another way of saying "I will always be there for you."

[Nynaeve506]

Spanish OT

Spoiler:

I'd respond in Spanish but my head hurts - I crunch numbers for a living... and my degree sits on the back burner. I did understand everything you all said

Now I'm off to eat dinner and I wonder... what kind of toppings would Sam and Jack eat on their pizzas? Would they be like me and my husband - where I like lots 'o stuff and he's just pepperoni... or the opposite? Or weird?

[JenniferJF]

Emotions + Sam = Overwhelmed. Factor in a concussion and she's overloaded. That's what happened when Jack asked why she had thanked him. It's hard enough for her to recognize her feelings, now talk about them? Yikes! Brain reboot! So when she tells him "Nothing" she means "Everything." I see it this way because she's smiling when she says it and her eyes never leave his. I think Jack sees it that way too and when he tells her he's "got plenty of that" it's just another way of saying "I will always be there for you."

Yeah.. Once again it comes down to our completely different interpretation of Sam and Jack as characters and our interpretation of the emotions we're seeing on their faces. You see fluff and flirting, I see complete angst and sadness and a great deal of regret in their expressions and tones.

One of these days we'll agree on something.

The sky is blue. Right?

[JenniferJF]

I will comment further on this:

Sam would have started dating Pete with or without the experience in the episode of Grace. It's not like she woke up in the infirmary and thought "Oh my God, I have no life!" She'd been mulling over these thoughts for a long time.

I agree (?!?) that Sam would have come to the realization she wasn't happy with or without Grace *specifically* but I do think *something* had to happen that brought out that realization specifically. I think she was repressing the feelings for so long - which is why she was so shocked and in denial when Jacob suggested she wasn't happy - that she really consciously *hadn't* thought about the fact she was unhappy and lonely. As hallucination!Jacob says about Sam's missing something vital in her life, "And the sad thing is, you don't even realize it." If she had been mulling over it, that sentence makes no sense to me. So I do think she had to have an epiphany event (or moment) in which she suddenly realized she needed more in her life than what she had before she would start dating Pete and that she hadn't been mulling over the thoughts for awhile.

In fact, I think one of the meanings of 'Grace' in this episode is that, through the events in it, Sam is given a rare chance to change the course of her life she might otherwise not have had. A chance to change from the loneliness of the life she'd had - which she hadn't even realized - to a more full and complete life. So, as I said, I do think it was a true epiphany event for her, and she almost did (though not in the moment in the infirmary necessarily)quite suddenly realize "Hey. I'm not happy. I need a life."

And, to self-pimp (if anyone's not read it) my thoughts on Sam's thought-process during the scene are here

EDIT: And, no, I don't expect to change your mind. I'm just stating a counter-argument Like I said, our interpretations are so vastly different we might be discussing two different characters . But at least we see the ship lol

[Akamaimom]

Now I'm off to eat dinner and I wonder... what kind of toppings would Sam and Jack eat on their pizzas? Would they be like me and my husband - where I like lots 'o stuff and he's just pepperoni... or the opposite? Or weird?

Ooh--I smell a fic. And a cheesy one at that! Tee hee!

[Jacquelyn]

Yes Was installing office on one(mini notebook), making homework/watching bones on the desktop pc(with TV screen) and photoshopping/surfing on my normal notebook(laptop).

omg thats alot of stuff. i only have 1 computer (not even mine its my grandma's)

[UhSir]

Yeah.. Once again it comes down to our completely different interpretation of Sam and Jack as characters and our interpretation of the emotions we're seeing on their faces. You see fluff and flirting, I see complete angst and sadness and a great deal of regret in their expressions and tones.

One of these days we'll agree on something.

The sky is blue. Right?

Yep it is, well usually but today's sky is gray.
And we do agree on something.
*tries to remember what it is*
Oh!! We agree that Sam and Jack are a couple!