Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[Artie]

Hi! I'm a new person stopping in -- I've been lurking for a while so I decided to take the plunge and come on over. I'm catching up on SG-1 because I only saw a few episodes when it aired, between a night job and a small baby, but now I'm totally hooked. So it's all old, but it's new to me. *waves cheerily*

[Pol]

Hi all,

While pinned to my back post procedure, I am doing so research for an upcoming Campfire based around Pretense. In doing so I was poring over the Shipper Rewatch thread to find all of your thoughtful comments and ran across this by JennF... (spoilered for length)

Spoiler:

This episode is shortly after Jolinar's Memories and TDYK (which is when I think Sam fully realized her feelings for Martouf were 'artificial') and Urgo/100 Days... S4, Urgo being when I think Sam totally and completely fell in love with Jack (SG1 practically lived together for weeks and weeks) 100 Days when she figured it out, and S4 when they determined what they were going to do about it (repress their feelings for the next 4 years). But I do think Sam had feelings for Jack at the time of this episode (uhm.. not going to recite all the examples here).

So I think, at this point in that process, Sam was just confused. She wasn't sure which feelings were her own, which were a result of artificial memories/devices (remember, Narim had used that emotional thingie on her back in Enigma to make her feel love towards him - which has always bugged me even worse than Martouf letting Sam get close to him when channeling Jolinar) and which were her own emotions. So I think she really did need time to figure out what emotions were her own before she moved forward with any relationship. Though I think that happened fairly quickly with the events of Urgo then 100 Days , indicating to me she likely had some inkling some of those feelings inside here were true feelings...and not for Narim. So, in other words, I also think she was letting him down gently. Though, tbh, I think her feelings for Narim were always sort of like those for Pete - based more on her surprise at finding someone actually that attracted to her and flattering to that part of her than real true 'liking'.

As far as Twi mentioning the Ripple Effect connection - and I'm taking JM at his word that in the AU where she and Martouf got together she and Jack actually got together *sooner* - I tend to think the branch in that universe happened sometime around JM/TDYK, in which Sam didn't get her feelings vs. Jolinar's sorted out the way she did in our reality, and so attempted something with Martouf. Only, that being based on Jolinar, it eventually fell apart and she ended up - more quickly ironically, possibly because in the situation with Martouf she'd learned to look her emotions fully in the face without fear - with Jack anyway.

But.. back to Pretense. I've always found that conversation between Sam and Narim to be closure not just for Narim and her, but for her and Martouf, and to be the turning point at which she realizes her feelings for them were false and then searches to understand her true feelings - which she realizes are those she's beginning to feel for Jack.

Though I don't honestly think Sam only realized the true extent of her feelings for Jack at the forcefield. I really think she knew she was in love with him after 100 Days. I don't think, though, it was until D&C that she realized Jack loved her as much - and that his love for her was going to cost him his life. Which is why I think she turned down the fishing invite even after realizing it was, effectively, a 'date'. Not because she wasn't interested, but because she was and knew she was...

I agree and disagree with the above. I think that Sam realized she loved Jack in the 'more than is appropriate for team mates' way when she and Jack are on the floor in Hathor's lair in Into the Fire. I think that it is at the point when they're wrapped in each other's arms, she's recovered him from the cryo chamber and he's saved her from Hathor's hand-device, that she realizes that she loves this man enough to essentially lie to another superior officer and go back for Jack (instead of going back to blow up the generators as she assured Makepeace that she was doing).

I do agree that she didn't know how deep Jack's feelings for her ran until D&C (S4). Season 3 is the "falling in love" season for Sam in my head.

A brief refresher on S3 order with comments (add your own to my blank spots if you wish):

301 Into the Fire (2) - Sam realizes she loves him enough to defy orders/lie
302 Seth -
303 Fair Game -
304 Legacy -
305 Learning Curve - Who can't fall for a guy who loves kids?
306 Point of View - AU Carter/Kowalsky come through ("best friend's WIFE")
307 Deadman Switch -
308 Demons -
309 Rules of Engagement -
310 Forever in a Day - didn't happen
311 Past and Present -
312 Jolinar's Memories (1) -
313 The Devil You Know (2) -
314 Foothold - Sam has to shoot "Jack"
315 Pretense - let's Narim down with the 'it's not you, it's me, or rather, Jolinar' speech
316 Urgo - charming all the way around
317 A Hundred Days - Sam drives herself to exhaustion to save him.
318 Shades of Grey - adding salt to the wound of the prior "betrayal" of 100 Days, Jack betrays the SGC...building angst.

I've skipped the rest of S3, add to the list if you'd like...

What do you all think? Can you pinpoint the "fell in love" realization ep?

[Rachel500]

Hi all,

<snippety-snip>
I've skipped the rest of S3, add to the list if you'd like...

What do you all think? Can you pinpoint the "fell in love" realization ep?

For me Sam realised in A Hundred Days that she loved Jack as in "in love" the way a woman loves a man. It's when she sees Jack hug Laira. The jealousy hits and she can't deny it anymore.

[Pol]

Ugh! Blame it on the pain meds. I meant to say this:

Into the Fire is when Sam realizes she loves Jack more than just the teammate thing. Loves him enough to defy orders/lie to rescue him. But I'm sure she'd do the same for Daniel/Teal'c (though I can't see Sam and Teal'c in that awesome hug).

100 Days is when Sam realizes she's IN love with Jack. All the way. And she's in total denial of her own realization until she (as you say, Rachel) sees Jack kiss Laira goodbye.

Oops.

[Everlovin]

Ugh! Blame it on the pain meds. I meant to say this:

Into the Fire is when Sam realizes she loves Jack more than just the teammate thing. Loves him enough to defy orders/lie to rescue him. But I'm sure she'd do the same for Daniel/Teal'c (though I can't see Sam and Teal'c in that awesome hug).

100 Days is when Sam realizes she's IN love with Jack. All the way. And she's in total denial of her own realization until she (as you say, Rachel) sees Jack kiss Laira goodbye.

Oops.

Ok, not to get too terribly off topic, but as an admitted Teal'c fan I can soo see her sharing a desperate hug with Teal'c here. In fact, over the years, she's hugged Teal'c more often than she's hugged Daniel. Yes, the hug would have a different color/feel to it than the plain UST in that one, but I can so see it.

[mad_gater]

Does anyone have any ideas to help her?

OT tech issues:

Spoiler:

if she has amicrophone and it's plugged in good, then her sound card might be going bad

[mad_gater]

Ugh! Blame it on the pain meds. I meant to say this:

Into the Fire is when Sam realizes she loves Jack more than just the teammate thing. Loves him enough to defy orders/lie to rescue him. But I'm sure she'd do the same for Daniel/Teal'c (though I can't see Sam and Teal'c in that awesome hug).

100 Days is when Sam realizes she's IN love with Jack. All the way. And she's in total denial of her own realization until she (as you say, Rachel) sees Jack kiss Laira goodbye.

Oops.

- aren't painkillers wonderful? had plenty of them when I had all my wisdom teeth taken out....that might explain a few things about my rather odd tidbits of wisdom....

[majorsal]

Yes. I had no problem with Cam's telling his friend. And really no problem with Sam telling Pete. That I didn't like Pete was mostly because he was wishy washy and not strong enough for Sam--and didn't really understand her.

for me, i have a prob with 'anyone' telling pete about the program, b/c of *how* he saw some things. if he hadn't been following her around, he never would have been there to begin with. it's like he was, basically, rewarded for his misdeeds, instead of being punished for it.

I think he was probably a pretty good cop and trustworthy (that's why he couldn't just let it go that Sam was doing something shady--most cops I know are a little bit nosy that way). . .

sam was doing something shady? please explain.

[Everlovin]

Hi! I'm a new person stopping in -- I've been lurking for a while so I decided to take the plunge and come on over. I'm catching up on SG-1 because I only saw a few episodes when it aired, between a night job and a small baby, but now I'm totally hooked. So it's all old, but it's new to me. *waves cheerily*

Welcome to the Family!

[majorsal]

He wouldn't have needed to be in the infirmary at the SGC if he hadn't followed Sam (stalking ) and interrupted what was obviously a stake-out. As a cop, he should have known better.

don't be silly, doj, you're not supposed to notice that!

*rolls eyes at writers rolling eyes at the fans*

[Akamaimom]

sam was doing something shady? please explain.

He saw her sneaking around and doing things that he wasn't privy to. . . I'm saying "shady" as in his estimation of the word--not as in hers, and not in reality's estimation of it.

And pursuant to the previous idea about his having "Little Man Syndrome", he probably saw his chick in a situation where he thought he might have been able to help. Imagine white horse, knight in shining little tiny armor kind of thing. . .

I don't think he was all bad, I just think he was trying too hard. And I am NOT a Pete fan--he really did give me the creeps--I'm just not sure that he merited the vitriol that he seemed to get.

[Akamaimom]

Hi! I'm a new person stopping in -- I've been lurking for a while so I decided to take the plunge and come on over. I'm catching up on SG-1 because I only saw a few episodes when it aired, between a night job and a small baby, but now I'm totally hooked. So it's all old, but it's new to me. *waves cheerily*

***Waves cheerily back***

[Artie]

Thank you! I've just gotten into this ship, and this thread looks like so much fun!

[majorsal]

I agree. Using the FBI guy to check up on Sam would have sent up warning flags at the SGC, and he should have been reprimanded for that alone.

that's exactly what skydiver (who's also a fic writer) said when this ep came out.

i wonder how the show would have progressed if michael greenburg had stayed on?...

[Pol]

Hey folks,

Is there a place to find a list of which SG teams did what? I couldn't find that at the Stargate Wiki and I need it for a fic.

Thanks!