Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[JenniferJF]

I'll give my opinion--I want them to be happy--I care about them because they have been so strong under so much pain in their lives that I feel that they deserve to find some peace.

A short time ago we shared here why we'd all become shippers, and I was going to simply link my answer here, but the search feature isn't working properly at the moment so I can't find it.

But, in short, I'd been a regular viewer and fan for *years* but had pretty much ignored the Sam/Jack ship (as I do most TV relationships because they never go well or at all realistically and generally make the characters act like space aliens really have taken over their brains...) and then when I saw Threads I was so completely blown away by what they did in that episode (even though I'd never considered a double meaning to fishing before then, I still knew they'd gone fishing by the end) that I went back and rewatched the series looking for the ship specifically and what it meant for Sam and Jack both as individuals and together and was so completely impressed by the depths of the characters...

And that's why.

Or, IOW, because of all the ships on TV (or most books) this is one of the few which seems to me to grown naturally out of who the characters are without the relationship ever becoming simply what the characters are and in which the characters integrity, or the story's integrity, is never compromised in order to 'play with' the ship. Which is to say, I guess... It's a good story?

Though I can predict 9/10 people are gonna say RDA and AT's chemistry

[Akamaimom]

Or, IOW, because of all the ships on TV (or most books) this is one of the few which seems to me to grown naturally out of who the characters are without the relationship ever becoming simply what the characters are and in which the characters integrity, or the story's integrity, is never compromised in order to 'play with' the ship. Which is to say, I guess... It's a good story?

I completely agree with this. I really didn't think that they did all that much for each other in the first season--and that's even with Emancipation and the Broca Divide episodes being--well--as they are. I thought that her reaction to him was much more eager-to-please than it was "attraction" so to speak. And he was kind of condescending, as a superior officer would be. And you can't work that closely with someone else for that long in such passionate (not that kind of passionate) without engendering some sort of bond with them--be it good or bad.

Though I can predict 9/10 people are gonna say RDA and AT's chemistry

And I didn't really see this, either, until Out of Mind.

Of course, I started watching DVDs of earlier seasons during what was really season 8 or so, but caught up pretty quickly--and my first ep was WoO, which is like a primer into the show/ship/series. But I was just thinking about this the other day and wondered what other thoughtful answers there would be--besides, "They're hot."

[Padme18]

Humorous but mentions "feminine products"

Spoiler:

Well I thought maybe I'd have Jack go to the grocery store and by the wrong kind of tampon, only to come home and find Sam hysterical because well, it's that time of the month, then she packs her bags and runs off to a cheesy motel while Jack gets drunk with whiskey. Then he trips and falls and starts bleeding out his nose and the only thing he has are tampons and when Sam comes home the next day (after having taken some Midol and eaten some chocolate) she finds him sprawled out on the couch with a tampon shoved up his nose.

But in retrospect I think my second idea about Jonas is better

No, I like this idea!

Going off our discussion on when we first became shippers.

I think I became a shipper the first time I saw DC. It was in reruns on Scifi during season 7. The more of the show I watched (in reruns), I saw a little bit of the ship in other episodes. Before DC I wasn't sure if she was better with Daniel or Jack, but after that I was hooked. Then I started watching the new eps and Lost City really confirmed it with the whole "Han frozen in carbonite" esque scene. Even my mom got hooked on the ship after seeing Lost City.

And to prove that this ship is popular, my roomie, who is not a SG fan, is a shipper just from having me tell her about SJ. She's seen a couple of eps with me and is a full blown shipper. If peopel who are only casual watchers of the show are shippers, then I think we have the best ship out there.

[Treknik]

Marital problems/angst...

I'm personally not a fan of stories that are set when Sam and Jack are married and their marriage is put under threat in some ansgty way. Mainly I think because they've been through so much to be a couple, I'm kind of like "for crying out loud, just let them have their happy ending already!"

Which probably explains why the fic where I have them having marital problems is still a WIP on my hard drive.

Having said that, I think it's certainly a valid topic to explore. Most couples do face some angst and many have already offered the major issues. For me, most of the 'usual' major issues wouldn't work with Sam and Jack, because I can't see them having worked so hard to come together, allowing those things to push them apart even temporarily.

I think exploring issues with Jonas coming back to haunt Sam in her relationship with Jack is a good way to go - and original.

Rachael500, I am on the other side of the spectrum than you where I don't mind reading fanfiction about the bolded part. I agree with them having their happy ending, but to me being together is that happily ever after. They can have that loving marriage and home life, but with their line of work something is bound to happen. Why not see the angst of the situation with them conquering it as a couple, stronger as two than one? But, of course, the story must also include fluff (and a little gutter).

A short time ago we shared here why we'd all become shippers, and I was going to simply link my answer here, but the search feature isn't working properly at the moment so I can't find it.

But, in short, I'd been a regular viewer and fan for *years* but had pretty much ignored the Sam/Jack ship (as I do most TV relationships because they never go well or at all realistically and generally make the characters act like space aliens really have taken over their brains...) and then when I saw Threads I was so completely blown away by what they did in that episode (even though I'd never considered a double meaning to fishing before then, I still knew they'd gone fishing by the end) that I went back and rewatched the series looking for the ship specifically and what it meant for Sam and Jack both as individuals and together and was so completely impressed by the depths of the characters...

And that's why.

Or, IOW, because of all the ships on TV (or most books) this is one of the few which seems to me to grown naturally out of who the characters are without the relationship ever becoming simply what the characters are and in which the characters integrity, or the story's integrity, is never compromised in order to 'play with' the ship. Which is to say, I guess... It's a good story?

Though I can predict 9/10 people are gonna say RDA and AT's chemistry

I am the opposite of you, JenniferJF, where I saw the ship first because of the natural growth of the relationship (as you have said). The relationship was so beautifully written into the series that it fed my hunger, leaving me wanting more. I am now rewatching the series (and trying to finish Season 9/10, with shippy glasses on) in a different light. Where as before I was very curious of the Sam/Jack characters and how their relationship was going to develop, that now I am trying to understand the overall picture of the episode as I watch it. The relationship of Sam and Jack will always be first in my heart, but for the moment, it isn't the most important aspect of my viewing. For now, until my next rewatch.

And yup to the 9/10 people.

[Nynaeve506]

My husband introduced me to the series and I started watching - I noticed chemistry between S/J (I mean, they had her pin him to a locker in "Broca Divide" - generally they do that sort of thing when they want to play up sexual tension) - but I wasn't a "shipper". Elijah told me they "did some stuff" with them but didn't elaborate so I got online and researched. Pleased with the end result (I don't just ship random people, I want it to be supported by the show) - I started dabbling (in fact my first post on the now defunct thread was that I wasn't as into it as everyone else) and slowly I've succumbed to the mania. LOL Now I write fanfic and post on the message boards all the time!

EDIT: Oh *why* I like them - because of the rules and the PTB not breaking them, we have the wonderfully angsty ship with so many levels. So much fun!

[JenniferJF]

Rachael500, I am on the other side of the spectrum than you where I don't mind reading fanfiction about the bolded part. I agree with them having their happy ending, but to me being together is that happily ever after. They can have that loving marriage and home life, but with their line of work something is bound to happen. Why not see the angst of the situation with them conquering it as a couple, stronger as two than one? But, of course, the story must also include fluff (and a little gutter).

I think there's a difference between 'marital problems' and a challenging/ansty situation they have to come together to overcome. I love fics which show them having to deal with something 'stargate' related, or related to their line of work, as a couple. But I think the point is that, after everything they've been through, she (and I) don't care to create (or read about) standard 'marital problems' for them...

Which isn't quite the same thing.. Sam and Jack arguing about whether or not to have a family budget or whether to have two kids or three - which are both sources of 'marital problems' vs. Sam and Jack dealing with the fact she's lost off-world and he can't just rush out there to go save her the way he once would have done are very different things

[Rachel500]

I think there's a difference between 'marital problems' and a challenging/ansty situation they have to come together to overcome. I love fics which show them having to deal with something 'stargate' related, or related to their line of work, as a couple. But I think the point is that, after everything they've been through, she (and I) don't care to create (or read about) standard 'marital problems' for them...

Which isn't quite the same thing.. Sam and Jack arguing about whether or not to have a family budget or whether to have two kids or three - which are both sources of 'marital problems' vs. Sam and Jack dealing with the fact she's lost off-world and he can't just rush out there to go save her the way he once would have done are very different things

Yep. Thank you.

I like stories of when they are married (or even just together) where one of them is in trouble (Sam's lost or Jack's lost or they're in trouble together) and there is angst from the worry/concern, and have even written a couple myself - because I can see these situations arising.

But serious relationship issues that stem from an internal marital disagreement that provide angst particularly in extreme cases where there is the possibility of them walking away from each other or one being concerned the other is going to walk away, I just don't see that happening as I don't ever see the other believing anymore that the other is going to give up on *them* and the author would have to be very good to make me believe it by creating a scenario that would get them to that point.

EDIT: An example that has just sprang to mind (and apologies if the author is lurking) is a fic I came across once that took the usual marital issue of kids - Sam decided (on her own without talking with Jack) that he would be really happy to have a kid and came off her birth control in secret, falls pregnant. Only just as she's about to tell Jack, he makes some statement that makes her believe he doesn't want kids with her. Sam sneaks and runs away the next morning in shame and devastation determined to bring up her child alone and feeling guilty for deceiving Jack. Cue angst. I really have no idea what happened next because that's where I stopped reading. It's just not a believable scenario to me.

There are authors who show the "adjustment period" really well (Annerb's DC series is one of them) or humourous one-shots of domesticity (such as Mrs Pollifax, Pepper-f, etc) who I think do kind of highlight a realness or normalcy of marital life and the kind of usual irritations (usually in a humourous way) or adjustment issues, and those I don't mind too much - usually because they're brief and there's no question of huge angst just a brief look into their happy ending or them working out how to be *them*.

Hope than explains better what I meant.

[Treknik]

I think there's a difference between 'marital problems' and a challenging/ansty situation they have to come together to overcome. I love fics which show them having to deal with something 'stargate' related, or related to their line of work, as a couple. But I think the point is that, after everything they've been through, she (and I) don't care to create (or read about) standard 'marital problems' for them...

Which isn't quite the same thing.. Sam and Jack arguing about whether or not to have a family budget or whether to have two kids or three - which are both sources of 'marital problems' vs. Sam and Jack dealing with the fact she's lost off-world and he can't just rush out there to go save her the way he once would have done are very different things

Understandable, JenniferJF.

Now here's a question: What if there is a story that is done well, staying IC with a challenging/angsty situation, but also shows Sam/Jack conquering a marital problem in private? To me, conquering that marital problem could be interesting if you treat it similar to the challenging/angsty situation, and then turning full circle with the two where they collide and create the exact same result/solution.

Now that would be a story I would love to read.

[Nynaeve506]

<snip>

But serious relationship issues that stem from an internal marital disagreement that provide angst particularly in extreme cases where there is the possibility of them walking away from each other or one being concerned the other is going to walk away, I just don't see that happening as I don't ever see the other believing anymore that the other is going to give up on *them* and the author would have to be very good to make me believe it by creating a scenario that would get them to that point.<snip>

Hope than explains better what I meant.

And just to reiterate my previous position I totally agree. I can't see them ever walking away from each other - not when they've overcome so much together as it is. The typical problems for a married couple would be completely different for these two - definitely not money or sex - they both make *plenty* of money and I'm guessing when it comes to sex it's whenever they're able to be in the same zip code LOL

Still, I love angst and that's what I want to explore. I've started fleshing out my idea of dealing with Sam's history with Jonas and I'm wanting to work it into her and Jack's dynamic as they try to figure out the next part of her career (I'm thinking before she heads to Atlantis). Again, angsty in the sense that it's an issue they have to work through, not in the sense that they might walk away from each other.

[Treknik]

Yep. Thank you.

I like stories of when they are married (or even just together) where one of them is in trouble (Sam's lost or Jack's lost or they're in trouble together) and there is angst from the worry/concern, and have even written a couple myself - because I can see these situations arising.

But serious relationship issues that stem from an internal marital disagreement that provide angst particularly in extreme cases where there is the possibility of them walking away from each other or one being concerned the other is going to walk away, I just don't see that happening as I don't ever see the other believing anymore that the other is going to give up on *them* and the author would have to be very good to make me believe it by creating a scenario that would get them to that point.

There are authors who show the "adjustment period" really well (Annerb's DC series is one of them) or humourous one-shots of domesticity (such as Mrs Pollifax, Pepper-f, etc) who I think do kind of highlight a realness or normalcy of marital life and the kind of usual irritations (usually in a humourous way) or adjustment issues, and those I don't mind too much - usually because they're brief and there's no question of huge angst just a brief look into their happy ending or them working out how to be *them*.

Hope than explains better what I meant.

Yes Rachael500, this and JenniferJF's quote helped explain it better and I agree with the both of you.

I definitely agree with you about the fact that Sam and Jack would never walk away from each other. What they have done to overcome all the obstacles that have been in their way, there is no way they would turn their backs on what they have together.

Which brings me to another pet peeve, I don't like cheating stories. It doesn't matter which one did it, it won't happen!

[JenniferJF]

Now here's a question: What if there is a story that is done well, staying IC with a challenging/angsty situation, but also shows Sam/Jack conquering a marital problem in private? To me, conquering that marital problem could be interesting if you treat it similar to the challenging/angsty situation, and then turning full circle with the two where they collide and create the exact same result/solution.

Maybe..

Only, here's the thing. After everything they've already had to conquer and overcome professionally, and all the major fears and issues they've already had to overcome peronally simply to be together, as Rachel said, a writer would have to be Very Good to convince me there was any sort of 'threat' to happiness in the situation and, without that threat of loss, I can't see it being very interesting. So is it possible? Yes... but I'm not sure I can see it being done successfully while remaining in-character.

EDIT: LOL. Never mind, you pretty much already said that

EDIT2: Realized I wrote this, Grace, which is a bit of self-pimpage, but it illustrates my point a little because Sam and Jack are faced with a 'marital problem,' but, with everything they've been through, I couldn't help but think simply having each other is enough to take the real bite out of most dissappointments and inconveniences. And APA's Sam Carter's Wonderful Life is a great example of established situational angst.

[Treknik]

Maybe..

Only, here's the thing. After everything they've already had to conquer and overcome professionally, and all the major fears and issues they've already had to overcome peronally simply to be together, as Rachel said, a writer would have to be Very Good to convince me there was any sort of 'threat' to happiness in the situation and, without that threat of loss, I can't see it being very interesting. So is it possible? Yes... but I'm not sure I can see it being done successfully while remaining in-character.

EDIT: LOL. Never mind, you pretty much already said that

You said it with more passion though, and that is why I love the in depth posts you write, JenniferJF.

I agree it would be a very difficult story to write, but possible. There are definitely some great writers on this thread that are capable of writing one. Hint, hint.

Now, I must perform my motherly duty and pick up my daughter from preschool. Treknik, out.

[starlover]

at all the "normal" maritial issues...perhaps I should go a monastry(sp?) ...will be a lot easier I will take several "toy boys" with me then

So, reading all these posts about Sam/Jack having or not having marital problems, and seeing the HUGE VAST quantity of fiction out there about these people, one has to ask:

We all appreciate this couple--this is why we're on this thread. What is it about them? Beyond the obvious Grace kiss (Yum, by the way) and the tension between them.

Something beyond the Grace kiss?!?! Errrr...what???

I'll give my opinion--I want them to be happy--I care about them because they have been so strong under so much pain in their lives that I feel that they deserve to find some peace.

Oh yeah, and they've saved Earth like, what, 9 times?

I'm just wondering what other people will say.

Essentially, they are characters on a TV show (GASP!). Why do we care so much?

Why I care?

A lot of things...the chemistry, the slow "evolution" of the ship and how perfectly it was planned(when thinking they got together after Threads)
And why I'm still here. It's an addiction...and I think they've bound me to the thread...with a naquadah leash(sp?) J/K.

I'm too lazy post the whole "why I became a shipper" story again...plus the kidlings aren't sitting ready with the popcorn for that

[JenniferJF]

A few random S/J established fic recs:

Kissin' in the Back Row - PepperJ

Dimensionless Quantities - Mrs. Pollifax

Just Your Average Everyday - Mrs. Pollifax

Coffee by A.Loquita

Still Waters - A.Loquita

Yeah. Most of these.. not so angsty

[hedwig]

Marital problems/angst...

I'm personally not a fan of stories that are set when Sam and Jack are married and their marriage is put under threat in some ansgty way. Mainly I think because they've been through so much to be a couple, I'm kind of like "for crying out loud, just let them have their happy ending already!"

I'll give my opinion--I want them to be happy--I care about them because they have been so strong under so much pain in their lives that I feel that they deserve to find some peace.

My opinion is I completely agree with the above two opinions.

A short time ago we shared here why we'd all become shippers, and I was going to simply link my answer here, but the search feature isn't working properly at the moment so I can't find it.

I couldn't actually say when I became a "shipper", unless it was when I came across Gateworld and this thread (which was about three years ago). I didn't even know there was such a thing as "shipping" until I found this thread. I didn't start watching SG1 until about 2004, when I changed cable companies and actually got to have scifi, and discovered the SG1 marathons and got completely hooked at that time. I don't even remember what the first episode was that I saw, but I liked the show immediately.

I like stories of when they are married (or even just together) where one of them is in trouble (Sam's lost or Jack's lost or they're in trouble together) and there is angst from the worry/concern, and have even written a couple myself - because I can see these situations arising.

(*snip*)

EDIT: An example that has just sprang to mind (and apologies if the author is lurking) is a fic I came across once that took the usual marital issue of kids - Sam decided (on her own without talking with Jack) that he would be really happy to have a kid and came off her birth control in secret, falls pregnant. Only just as she's about to tell Jack, he makes some statement that makes her believe he doesn't want kids with her. Sam sneaks and runs away the next morning in shame and devastation determined to bring up her child alone and feeling guilty for deceiving Jack. Cue angst. I really have no idea what happened next because that's where I stopped reading. It's just not a believable scenario to me.

(*more snip*)

I read that story, too, and it isn't finished yet. Occasionally I troll through the list of stories on sj-always-forever-etc., and see that that particular one is still a WIP. I find that one completely unbelievable too.