Daniel Jackson Discussion and Appreciation

[LoopyMowse]

I think Daniel has had this attitude since the Goa'uld. He sees the majority of people as being able to be reasoned with -Icon and Ethon and one of the first season 9 episodes (I have Avalon1&2/Origin kind of blended) spoilers

Spoiler:

he continued to try to do it with Jared's planet -what's its name?- even when evidence said that it wasn't going to work. He even tried to talk to the Prior -or Doci or whoever to ask if maybe they were mistaken about what the Ori wanted

, but he also feels, since he's started Gate traveling that there are those rare beings who are just pure evil.

Spoiler:

I think MS said Daniel descended with a more action orientated attitude in his approach towards people that can't be reasoned with?
Daniel learned some people they are evil (Khalek) and talking can't resolve the problem no matter how much he dislikes weapon it's sometimes necessary.
I wonder if Daniel would try to use ascension powers to stop a prior or an ori if the ancients were to give him ability to use powers? He seemed ready to do that against Anubis in Full Circle whatever the consequences were to himself.
I remember how he told Jack in Abyss for all the good he might do he was no more equipped to play God than the Goa'uld (I might have misquoted as I can't remember exact words he said) has this opinion been changed any since encountering ori and priors...?
I would like to see a scene of an ancient character talking to Daniel again, I think this was a missed opportunity with Orlin when he took human form the second time (helping develop something to fight ori plague) I know he and Daniel had a scene in briefing room but it wasn't like the scenes I watched Daniel have with Oma
do people want to see Oma again? If it were possible without involving Anubis I mean (no way should Anubis get in contact with the ori or any priors! That would be like adding gasoline onto flames!) I think scenes of Daniel with Oma talking about ori would be good

I put my whole post into spoilers because I wasn't sure what was ok and what wasn't.

[nyxlily]

Just putting everything in spoilers since it'd be easiest.

Spoiler:

I would like to see a scene of an ancient character talking to Daniel again

I think we'll be getting that opportunity in the Pegasus Project episode! Although it'd be great to see him talk to one with him knowing s/he is an Ancient to begin with.

do people want to see Oma again? If it were possible without involving Anubis I mean (no way should Anubis get in contact with the ori or any priors! That would be like adding gasoline onto flames!) I think scenes of Daniel with Oma talking about ori would be good

I would LOVE to see Oma again! Without Anubis, for sure. He's done and over with. I mean, he was an enemy since season.. 6?

Speaking of Orlin.. Would Daniel sacrifice himself like Orlin did in order to defeat the Ori? Knowing what it could do to him? COULD he access that knowledge in his subconcious? I think that'd make an interesting episode.. since they NEVER touch upon it since he retook human form.. except by Replicarter.

[Dani347]

Again, spoiling everything because the spoilers are kind of interwoven with what can be posted out and it's just too confusing.

Spoiler:

I think MS said Daniel descended with a more action orientated attitude in his approach towards people that can't be reasoned with?
Daniel learned some people they are evil (Khalek) and talking can't resolve the problem no matter how much he dislikes weapon it's sometimes necessary.

Spoiler:

I would have to say that I disagree with MS, in that case. At least, that he's only gotten the idea that words aren't always going to work after he descended. Daniel never tried to reason with Apophis, so Khalek isn't a new experience. He's also willingly used weapons before. Khalek might have been the first time he was the first one to suggest that killing was in order. But, Daniel's never been a pacifist. He's always just been someone who would try to find another way if possible.

Spoiler:

I wonder if Daniel would try to use ascension powers to stop a prior or an ori if the ancients were to give him ability to use powers? He seemed ready to do that against Anubis in Full Circle whatever the consequences were to himself.

Spoiler:

I believe he would, because yes, he was willing to do that in Full Circle, and to use them against the Replicarter. I think his time of following the Ancient rules ended as soon as he crossed the line in Full Circle. He became an ascended renegade

Spoiler:

Speaking of Orlin.. Would Daniel sacrifice himself like Orlin did in order to defeat the Ori? Knowing what it could do to him? COULD he access that knowledge in his subconcious? I think that'd make an interesting episode.. since they NEVER touch upon it since he retook human form.. except by Replicarter.

Spoiler:

If it's possible, yes. I have no doubt about that. Although I hope it doesn't come to that. I don't know how they'll manage otherwise, but I'd like Daniel's super ascended mojo to have made its last appearance in Reckoning. I want Daniel's primary weapons (yes, I did say that he's not opposed to using actual weapons, but they aren't his primary choice) to be his passion, his language, his mind. The mind he had before he was ascended.

[LoopyMowse]

Spoiler:

I think we'll be getting that opportunity in the Pegasus Project episode! Although it'd be great to see him talk to one with him knowing s/he is an Ancient to begin with.

Spoiler:

really? Oh that's great I can't wait to see the dialogue interaction between Daniel and an ancient character! Too bad it's not Oma but still should be great to watch on screen. Daniel's ascension storyline was I feel a much missed opportunity with his character. There was so much we didn't get to see ON screen about his ascension...

I would LOVE to see Oma again! Without Anubis, for sure. He's done and over with. I mean, he was an enemy since season.. 6?

they showed Anubis in the last ep of season five, he captured Thor and used a 'spiky ball' probe inside Thor's mind. He had been hinted at by other Goa'uld characters as the latest 'bad guy' for SG1 during season five.
Just MO I never thought that oily face effect was scary, and all the times just seeing his cloaked figure was just like looking at laundry - not scary at all! The replicators were scary to me because I always hated anything spider-like in movements!

Spoiler:

Speaking of Orlin.. Would Daniel sacrifice himself like Orlin did in order to defeat the Ori? Knowing what it could do to him? COULD he access that knowledge in his subconcious? I think that'd make an interesting episode.. since they NEVER touch upon it since he retook human form.. except by Replicarter.

Ascension storyline wasn't explored ON screen as much as I would've liked. Yes IMO Daniel would sacrifice himself. He's done it often enough in the past, the first example comes to mind is his season five radiation poisoning sacrifice on Kelowna.

Spoiler:

As we have seen Daniel sacrifice himself before perhaps that is what his reasoning is in choosing (if it IS a straight choice and not brainwashing) to be priorised? perhaps (I'm just speculating) Daniel has an idea to do something like Garek did? Use the powers he gets from being priorised to somehow battle against a prior or the ori themselves while knowing what will happen to him as a consequence. We've seen that priors get killed (burst into flames) as a 'failsafe' if they use their powers against ori wishes.
But after finding out Daniel is a prior SG1 devise a plan that they put in motion which somehow (I don't know how) manages to rescue prior Daniel before he can be 'flamed' for his betrayal?
I wish I didn't have so long to wait to see what happens!

[LoopyMowse]

Originally Posted by Dani347

Spoiler:

I would have to say that I disagree with MS, in that case. At least, that he's only gotten the idea that words aren't always going to work after he descended. Daniel never tried to reason with Apophis, so Khalek isn't a new experience. He's also willingly used weapons before. Khalek might have been the first time he was the first one to suggest that killing was in order. But, Daniel's never been a pacifist. He's always just been someone who would try to find another way if possible.

What I meant was that MS felt since Daniel descended the writers will be less reluctant to show Daniel in scenes with weaponry on his own in cirumstances - more active in fight scenes. He has descended with a purpose, he is more action orientated than he was before ascension.

I remember in an early ep The Nox Daniel's line when the team didn't know what to do with Shak'yl, the way he said "well, we can't kill him" seemed to surprise Jack Sam and Teal'c as if they didn't expect Daniel to be considering such an option in the first place.

Lots of occasions Daniel has shown himself to be adept with weponry, from Earth SGC military to the various jaffa weapons. I've never had the feeling or interpretation of Daniel as being a weak character, even when he's compared to warrior Teal'c or military Jack and Sam. That's just MO.

Perhaps what MS meant was those times when the writers didn't know what to do with Daniel in fight scenes; should he be firing or should he be hiding behind a rock; I think maybe the pilot CoTG was an example of this? Jaffa shooting staff weapons at Jack Teal'c Sam Daniel and all the captured people in the chamber. Jack and Teal'c were returning fire with their own staff weapons Sam checked on Daniel then tried defending people around her. Camera panned to Daniel he was shown glasses askew half lying by a large boulder fell there from the staff blast caused damage to stone walls of chamber.
Perhaps MS meant that episodes now (since Daniel descended) Daniel wouldn't be written as having that reaction behaviour during firefight scenes. I'm just interpreting! I have NO idea whether any of that is right!

Spoiler:

I think his time of following the Ancient rules ended as soon as he crossed the line in Full Circle. He became an ascended renegade

Spoiler:

I think anytime a character is written and acted as a contrary to the group he/she is in (Daniel not complying to the rules of being ascended) this is more interesting to watch.
When Daniel made his decision in Full Circle to return to Anubis' ship after learning Oma was on Abydos ascending people (eg Skaara) he knew he would have to physically act in encountering Anubis.
Previously Daniel had been subtle; giving Anubis verbal warning, going to other Goa'uld ships to tell them Anubis could be stopped while he didn't have all the 'eyes'; but once he learned what Anubis was (half ascended) this changed the way Daniel thought and acted in the situation. He wasn't going to 'do nothing' anymore.
I would have liked seeing an ep after Full Circle that was like Meridian in showing Daniel debating with Oma. I'm sure he felt furstration at being pulled away from Anubis, I wonder if other ancient/ascended characters could have debated with Daniel or if they used Oma as a spokesperson.
There has been some fic that showed possible scenarios, but it would've been nice to see somethingON screen.
Threads was good! I'd been waiting since Full Circle for an ep like Threads!

Spoiler:

I don't know how they'll manage otherwise, but I'd like Daniel's super ascended mojo to have made its last appearance in Reckoning. I want Daniel's primary weapons (yes, I did say that he's not opposed to using actual weapons, but they aren't his primary choice) to be his passion, his language, his mind. The mind he had before he was ascended.

Spoiler:

I really enjoyed how Daniel faced off with repliCarter! He gave back as good as he got, thinking he was going to die anyway so he had nothing to lose in resisting her probe of his mind, even when doesn't look like he can succeed Daniel doesn't give up being stubborn
Maybe the writers can use his mental toughness with some ascended power? Daniel has the right frame of mind - mental attitude - to face ori or their priors (we've seen how he speaks against ori doctrine in TPTB) so maybe the writers will add to this with some powers? I don't know, but of all the characters I think Daniel could battle against energy beings and still be able to resist what such power does to the mind (he learned this lesson in AP). I'd like to think Daniel could anyway!

[Dani347]

Article about tonight's episode here: http://eclipsemagazine.com/modules/n...p?storyid=1713

Obviously some spoilers, but here's something that isn't spoilerly.

There is a Daniel scene in the opening sequence that is so endearingly classic early seasons Daniel Jackson [and played to perfection by the talented Michael Shanks] that it makes you almost expect early season Jack O'Neill [Richard Dean Anderson] to be there too.

Classic Daniel! Well, okay, I've felt Daniel has been more like classic Daniel this season, but if someone else is noticing enough to mention it, it might be even better. They also mention that this is ful of team moments.

Morpheus spoilers

Spoiler:

It seems Daniel is separated for a little while, searching in the library for the Ancient weapon and info about the illness, while the others go through the village looking for a cure but it can't be for too long, since they make a point of saying it's a team episode, and this is the episode where there's a good moment between Daniel and Sam. And, Daniel is not joined at the hip to Vala, who's having her psych evaluation.

[Mickey23]

Spoiler:

I would have to say that I disagree with MS, in that case. At least, that he's only gotten the idea that words aren't always going to work after he descended. Daniel never tried to reason with Apophis, so Khalek isn't a new experience. He's also willingly used weapons before. Khalek might have been the first time he was the first one to suggest that killing was in order. But, Daniel's never been a pacifist. He's always just been someone who would try to find another way if possible.

This is very true. When faced with the need to use a weapon, he did so effectively. One example is when he is with Jack and Sam shooting the replicators on Apophis's ship in "Enemies" (I think that was the ep). You could tell he knew how to use it when he loaded it and when he used effective techniques along with O'Neill and Carter to cover each other and escape.

Spoiler:

Would Daniel sacrifice himself like Orlin did in order to defeat the Ori? Knowing what it could do to him? COULD he access that knowledge in his subconcious? I think that'd make an interesting episode.. since they NEVER touch upon it since he retook human form.. except by Replicarter.

I believe without question that Daniel would do this if he had to. Of course, that wouldn't be his first choice, he wouldn't want to sacrifice himself if he didn't have to. But if it was his life versus the life of SG1 or Earth, or even strangers, he would do it. He has ("Meridian").

Spoiler:

As we have seen Daniel sacrifice himself before perhaps that is what his reasoning is in choosing (if it IS a straight choice and not brainwashing) to be priorised? perhaps (I'm just speculating) Daniel has an idea to do something like Garek did? Use the powers he gets from being priorised to somehow battle against a prior or the ori themselves while knowing what will happen to him as a consequence. We've seen that priors get killed (burst into flames) as a 'failsafe' if they use their powers against ori wishes.
But after finding out Daniel is a prior SG1 devise a plan that they put in motion which somehow (I don't know how) manages to rescue prior Daniel before he can be 'flamed' for his betrayal?
I wish I didn't have so long to wait to see what happens!

Spoiler:

This is a good point. I am not sure. I don't think he will think that he can undermine the priors or the Ori from inside or going in to battle against them. I don't think he would be naive enough to think that would work. But maybe if he does it to save another's life, I can see that. Somehow, to be faced with the decision that he becomes a prior or, for example, Sam dies; or he does it to get their healing power if someone is sick... You are right, I hate having to wait to find out!!
Too bad it can't all be some hoax. Some white face paint, "magic" (Earth technology that primitives haven't seen) just to turn people away from Ori. Or something like an April Fool's joke. He he, that would be fun! Ooh, I am seeing some fic ideas already!

re eclipse mag article

Spoiler:

There is a Daniel scene in the opening sequence that is so endearingly classic early seasons Daniel Jackson [and played to perfection by the talented Michael Shanks]...they make a point of saying it's a team episode, and this is the episode where there's a good moment between Daniel and Sam. And, Daniel is not joined at the hip to Vala, who's having her psych evaluation.

Spoiler:

Thanks for pointing this out! I miss classic Daniel, and I miss team moments SOOOO much! They are too few and far between!

Daniel's super ascended mojo

That's a good way of putting it!

[Dani347]

Daniel centric thoughts on Morpheus. Most of which I've said in the actual episode thread, but I'll say them here too, and maybe come up with a few extra insights.

Spoiler:

I have not had any complaints with how Daniel has been last season. Not really fair to talk about this season with only two episodes shown. So, this is a continuation of the good stuff I've seen. They're utilizing Daniel's importance as a scholar. I don't have a problem with Daniel using a weapon, and it would be dumb if he never did, but it's his brain that's the asset to SG1, and he got to use it. Plus, it's cute seeing him geeky. The scene in the beginning, which is messed up my tape reminded me of that episode where he comes running in late as the team is going off somewhere (Jacob was in the episode) and Jack pushed his glasses back up on his face. Can't recall the name, but I do see where the writer of the article said you could almost imagine Jack being there. I like how Daniel didn't want to leave the library. I also liked that he spent a little time with every cast member, instead of just Vala and then a quick wrap up with everyone else at the very end.

Another thing this episode had. Daniel the arguer. I know there's a better word for it. Going to bat for Vala, which I don't mind, because it makes sense in the context of her actions in Beachhead, and being Adria's mom, plus, he didn't overlook everything else she had done, and she still gets on his nerves as well. From what I've seen, they're getting friendlier, but still no blasted ship. Long may it not exist! Plus, I loved Daniel telling Sam to just hang in there a little while longer. Encouraging her, similar to him doing the same thing for Teal'c in Avatar. It's these things that are important not only to the character, but to what he brings to the team, and that's one reason I'm against ascended powers. To me, it feels like they think he needs that to stand out and to contribute anything unique to the show. So, I'm glad they're concentrating on the stuff about him I love.

[nyxlily]

I know which ep you are talking about! With Teal'c being tortured (hey, it was still sorta new back then!) and we were introduced to.. that guy with the messed up forehead tattoo. But I also could not recall the name..

Also said in the episode thread: I really really enjoyed Daniel in this one. He was so enthusiastic, plus, like Dani said, he was so expectant that his teammates would know what he was talking about when he started spieling about stuff only he could follow. And MS pulled off the sleepless look so well! Actually, the whole cast did. I was pleased.

Encouraging her, similar to him doing the same thing for Teal'c in Avatar. It's these things that are important not only to the character, but to what he brings to the team

I think Daniel was there for -every- character at least once through SG's 9/10 year history. That was one of the reasons why I love him.

and that's one reason I'm against ascended powers. To me, it feels like they think he needs that to stand out and to contribute anything unique to the show.

Leaving the show out of the equation and looking at it from the character's prespective.. would Daniel think he isn't contributing enough? That he'd need Ancient powers to turn the tide? I'm really really embarrassed to say this, but I've read a lot of angstsy Daniel fics through the years where they depict him VERY critical of himself and berate himself for not doing enough.. that I've kinda blurred that Daniel with Canon Daniel. So, canonically, is Daniel really that critical of himself? I'm sure that there's one or more episode where he wish that there was more he could do.. but thinking about it, canon Daniel is more certain of himself and have more self esteem.. enough to know what's impossible and wouldn't blame himself.. or would he? ARGH! I am so embarrassed.. I can't seperate fic from show. And I don't even read angst fic all that much as they tend to drag..

I hope all I've wrote are vague enough that I don't need spoilers..

[Dani347]

I don't think there was anything that would ruin an episode for a spoilerphobic. I just like to be really careful just in case.

As far as Daniel's confidence (and nothing wrong with reading angsty fics) I do think Daniel is more confident than he is in some of them. I don't think he would feel that his skills aren't a real and vital contribution to the team. He's more assertive to almost pushiness, although that might not be quite right. But, he's not afraid to argue anyone down, and he still believes that the side of the program where his skills really come into play (exploration) is important. I know he lost some of that around Meridian, but he doesn't seem to lack that now. And, as long as the writers don't have the attitude of "what can we possibly do with an Archeologist/Linguist?" I'm fine.

Speaking of, I still would like to see him do some conversing with other cultures who don't speak perfect American English. Haven't seen that since Enemy Mine. And, a little digging around in the dirt wouldn't hurt. But, still. Scholar Daniel. *happy sigh*

[Rex Marhiku]

Shanks pulled off being sleepy convincingly to the point that I began to wonder if maybe he actually had deprived himself before shooting that scene... certainly not, though.

Didn't actually catch what he SAID per se in the briefing pertaining to uhh... the planet they went to... so I'll have to rewatch it in case he said something vital. It was still cute, though.

Was anyone besides me absolutely thrilled to see him in a scene with JUST Carter? It's not like they haven't had a solitary discussion for a while, but ever since the Abydos cartouche bit at the beginning of the series, they've always struck me as the "smart ones" and it's great to see parallels in Season Ten to Season One.

Come to think of it, that wasn't the only such parallel in Morpheus.

*Revels in nostalgia.*

[Dani347]

I love the Science Twins together, even though there wasn't really any science-y stuff going on in this episode.

[LoopyMowse]

Spoiler:

so it sounds like Morpheus will be an episode I will look forward to watching then!
The best parts of Camelot for me were when Daniel had 'booksearching and figuring out' to do
Would people who have seen Morpheus compare it to The Scourge in terms of how Daniel acts and reacts in both episodes? I ask because I liked how Daniel was in The Scourge maybe he is this way in Morpheus too?
I'll note down to make sure I watch Morpheus for its endearing Danielness qualities *bounces*

[Dani347]

Spoiler:

so it sounds like Morpheus will be an episode I will look forward to watching then!
The best parts of Camelot for me were when Daniel had 'booksearching and figuring out' to do
Would people who have seen Morpheus compare it to The Scourge in terms of how Daniel acts and reacts in both episodes? I ask because I liked how Daniel was in The Scourge maybe he is this way in Morpheus too?
I'll note down to make sure I watch Morpheus for its endearing Danielness qualities *bounces*

Spoiler:

I would compare it more to Camelot, for the same reasons you mentioned. Or the Avalon episodes. For me, the only really Daniel Danielness from The Scourge was the point where he thought of going to the base or whatever it was to be picked up, and Sam picked up on the how of making that place work for the beaming. But, don't let that sway you, because that's still the only episode where I've been truly annoyed with Daniel, and it overshadows my view. Maybe if you kind of give a little bit of what you liked about Daniel in the Scourge, I could say if those elements were in his character in this episode.

Probably nothing that truly needed spoiling (vague references to tonight's episode and The Scourge from last season, and with my really bad way of describing things, I doubt anyone would be spoiled, but I'm just overly cautious when it comes to spoiling people.

[1DanielForMe]

Rex, you mean about the knight and his sword, and how there was the reference to that one planet in Latin, and he found the gate address on the sword? I always love when he talks on like that, and when you first see him, how excited he is... So wonderfully Daniel!

As well, I did simply adore how we got to see just Daniel and Sam, with actual significance in the episode (and Teal'c, as well, incidentally, was given a fair bit of importance in there, of course). Very cool.