Ba'al /Cliff Simon Thunk,Discussion and Appreciation

[emily_reich]

yes, JM is a great guy for coming and actually answering questions it'd be even more fun of more than one person was doing it, but it's great to know that the people on the show always try to stay directly connected to the fans... whether that leads to good or bad ideas on the show is up to opinion, but i do think they go on some fan attitudes and ideas for their stories, or at least about how they deal with characters...


and yes... as for baal... he'd better return that ending was just SCREAMING "he's comin back and better than ever "

[Buc252]

Hi, all!

I don't really hang here much, but there's been something about which I've just been dying to ask other Baal fans.

Ignoring for the moment the Lotar we saw in Summit, and concentrating pretty much exclusively on Abyss, has anybody ever questioned or noted that it seems like all Baal's jaffa are blond? Some of them unnaturally so (obviously bleached or dyed as opposed to naturally blond), but every single one we saw in Abyss was blond. And his Lotar, the girl, was also blonde.

Has there been discussion on this? Is it that he wants to be distinguished from his underlings? Or does he have a "thing" for blond people?

Just curious. I do like Baal as a villain. He has that old-fashioned, twisting-the-mustache villainy in him. <g>

[ShadowMaat]

Hmm... hadn't noticed the hair color thing (or had forgotten). Adds all kinds of new fodder to the Sam/Baal shippers, though, doesn't it?

[emily_reich]

you took the words out of my mouth certainly does... shipper plot bunnies, ya think

that IS an interesting question though!! whether it was intentional or not is unimportant i must go rewatch abyss again!! (ah, the burdens i'll carry for this thread )

[Buc252]

you took the words out of my mouth certainly does... shipper plot bunnies, ya think

that IS an interesting question though!! whether it was intentional or not is unimportant i must go rewatch abyss again!! (ah, the burdens i'll carry for this thread )

Actually, now that you mention it, Jack would be pretty frantic should Baal decide to pursue Sam, especially against her will! <g>

But seriously, post your thoughts after you rewatch the ep. This has been on my mind since the ep first aired! LOL

[Shep'sSocks]

Hey, I've been busy. I went and asked Joe about Ba'al's lo'taur. Of course, he wasn't involved in any of the eps in question, but I was yelling at someone and needed to legitimize posting and that was as good a quesiton as any. And better than most.

Go, Shadowmaat! And I'm sure whomever you were yelling at deserved it quite thoroughly!

[Shep'sSocks]

Hi, all!

I don't really hang here much, but there's been something about which I've just been dying to ask other Baal fans.

Ignoring for the moment the Lotar we saw in Summit, and concentrating pretty much exclusively on Abyss, has anybody ever questioned or noted that it seems like all Baal's jaffa are blond? Some of them unnaturally so (obviously bleached or dyed as opposed to naturally blond), but every single one we saw in Abyss was blond. And his Lotar, the girl, was also blonde.

Has there been discussion on this? Is it that he wants to be distinguished from his underlings? Or does he have a "thing" for blond people?

Just curious. I do like Baal as a villain. He has that old-fashioned, twisting-the-mustache villainy in him. <g>

What makes it more interesting for me is that his lotar (sp?) in Summit and Last Stand wasn't blond. Of course, we never saw that young fella again so perhaps he betrayed Ba'al and our lord decided that blonds were the way to go...

[emily_reich]

ok!! just rewatched abyss!! fogotten what an amazing episode it was, too...

anyway, the VERY first jaffa you couldn't really tell the haircolor on cuz it was dark out (the one who pinned jack in the opening...) but you're right!! they were all blonde!!

i also noticed that they all wore lots of leather in this episode... lol... even baal has leather pants (well that and an amazingly awesome jacket!)....

so ya think baal has a thing for blondes in leather maybe his last host was blonde?? maybe he saw carter somewhere and became a convert?? maybe he had falling-out with his first lotar and decided it was because the guy wasn't blone?? he saw a madonna music video (this would explain the leather too)???

[Shep'sSocks]

I love that on the DVD of Abyss one can go from Ba'al scene to Ba'al scene without all those boring Daniel and Jack scenes, and SG-1 back on Earth scenes...

[emily_reich]

aww... ya don't love daniel...??

if only every 'scene' (aka skip-ahead-to-it part) started with baal

i love how sadistic but yet still exuding that air of "not completely evil" he is in abyss he just wants the information... i love when he comes up and gives his "i believe you" speech... he tries to appeal to jack's obvious mistrust and not-so-much-liking-at-the-moment of the tok'ra to get the information...

and if you watch the audio commentary, they said that cliff simon was by himself in almost every one of those scenes... it might have been all of them... he does a fabulous job i remember thinking "wow" cuz you really can't tell he's talking to a wall through the whole thing...

[Shep'sSocks]

aww... ya don't love daniel...??

This will get me into trouble in some quarters, I know, but no, not so much in this episode. I think he comes across as a bit smug. Not in the Ba'al smug kind of cool way either. More of a snotty know-it-all. I like it when Jack kind of slaps him down.

if only every 'scene' (aka skip-ahead-to-it part) started with baal

i love how sadistic but yet still exuding that air of "not completely evil" he is in abyss he just wants the information... i love when he comes up and gives his "i believe you" speech... he tries to appeal to jack's obvious mistrust and not-so-much-liking-at-the-moment of the tok'ra to get the information...

And when Jack gives him the information, he immediately provides the antidote to the acid. What a guy! Keeps his word. Very trustworthy!

and if you watch the audio commentary, they said that cliff simon was by himself in almost every one of those scenes... it might have been all of them... he does a fabulous job i remember thinking "wow" cuz you really can't tell he's talking to a wall through the whole thing...

Yeah, that amazed me. The guy can act at anything, including a wall! I think they said that in a couple that were shot from over Jack's shoulder, that was RDA's double.

[emily_reich]

lol... well i forgive you about daniel lol... seriously, though, i loved this entire episode, even daniel, but i can see where you're comin from


and yes!! i loved how he gave the antidote... he didn't even have to as he was gonna kill jack eventually but he eased the pain anyway another example of how he's atheart better than most of the goauld!

like i said, when he said "i believe you" it was a great moment honestly that sounded genuine like much of what he said in reckoning we're talking about a goauld who actually has sincere feelings, not just a cold, murderous, power-hungry monster....


and yeah, they said it was his double for those shots CS could even act at a hamster! (ok, random... ) seriously, you're right, he's amazing from experience, it's the weirdest and hardest when there's nothing to react to!!

[Shep'sSocks]

lol... well i forgive you about daniel lol... seriously, though, i loved this entire episode, even daniel, but i can see where you're comin from

I think when I first saw it, I was expecting to hate it so it came as a very pleasant surprise to find Ba'al so completely wonderful.

and yes!! i loved how he gave the antidote... he didn't even have to as he was gonna kill jack eventually but he eased the pain anyway another example of how he's atheart better than most of the goauld!

It's gotta make ya wonder who his host is, yes?

like i said, when he said "i believe you" it was a great moment honestly that sounded genuine like much of what he said in reckoning we're talking about a goauld who actually has sincere feelings, not just a cold, murderous, power-hungry monster....

Which isn't to say that he isn't a power hungry monster! He's a sincere power hungry monster.

and yeah, they said it was his double for those shots CS could even act at a hamster! (ok, random... ) seriously, you're right, he's amazing from experience, it's the weirdest and hardest when there's nothing to react to!!

Just picturing CS acting at a hamster... Yep, works for me!

[emily_reich]

I think when I first saw it, I was expecting to hate it so it came as a very pleasant surprise to find Ba'al so completely wonderful.

actually the first time i watched i too was like "oh, baal... he's the guy from summit!" but yes, i too went in thinking it was gonna be boring, but again baal steals the show (even though i wasn't the mega baal fan that i am now)...

It's gotta make ya wonder who his host is, yes?

definately he makes a comment like that in abyss... says "[something about kanaan taking jack's body] as i or any other goauld would." it's rare you here the goauld even MENTION their hosts... or tok'ra hosts even and the difference between them... usually it's only the tok'ra that acknowledge this and it's the goauld who don't even care beyond the fact that the tok'ra are going against their authority... they don't even care why or acknowledge that distinction between them and the different way of taking hosts...

but baal mentions it a lot... i think he's a smart cookie... more intellectual than most of the goauld

though i admit i love when jack's like "that it? just baal?" lol... baal, smug as ever... though jack kinda makes a good point... baal doesn't go on and try to play the "i'm your god" game (early signs that he doesn't erally buy into it or even care) and doesn't say his name like he's some magnificent being that jack should be praising and bowing down to.... he just says "i am baal" nice and simple... GOTTA love this guy

Which isn't to say that he isn't a power hungry monster! He's a sincere power hungry monster.

actually i would go so far as to say that he may be sadistic sometimes, but an actual monster he isn't... not even in abyss torturing jack... a true monster would have just killed him again as soon as he got an answer...

no, baal DOES want the power over the other system lords and such (no doubts there ) but he's manipulative IN PLACE of being cruel... this is why i say he's more intellectual and has a good side to him....

why this is i doubt we'll ever know, but we can always speculate maybe he really likes the earth humans on some level... cept jack i guess... lol... "o'neill! the thought of that makes me sick!" lol... he KNEW jack finally remembered and wasn't tellin...

i loved how he said "i feel it"... see, the guy has feelings and follows his gut... ANUBIS wouldn't do that

Just picturing CS acting at a hamster... Yep, works for me!

ROFL!!

baal: you will tell me what i want to know or i will take it out of you!
hamster: ....
baal: very well then.

[Shep'sSocks]

actually the first time i watched i too was like "oh, baal... he's the guy from summit!" but yes, i too went in thinking it was gonna be boring, but again baal steals the show (even though i wasn't the mega baal fan that i am now)...

I remember thinking when watching Summit, 'That guy's smiling all the time, how odd for a Goa'uld!' I also thought rather incoherently, "Cor, he's a bit of all right!"

definately he makes a comment like that in abyss... says "[something about kanaan taking jack's body] as i or any other goauld would." it's rare you here the goauld even MENTION their hosts... or tok'ra hosts even and the difference between them... usually it's only the tok'ra that acknowledge this and it's the goauld who don't even care beyond the fact that the tok'ra are going against their authority... they don't even care why or acknowledge that distinction between them and the different way of taking hosts...

Is it Zippy who says something in one of Tollan episodes that the host isn't aware of anything? That the host essentially no longer exists? Most Goa'uld certainly don't acknowledge their hosts or anyone else's. I bet Ba'al has long conversations with his host. Imagine the one during Threads...

Spoiler:

Ba'al: Whose grand design?
Anubis: Mine!
Ba'al watches him go...
Host: Um, Ba'al, that guy's nuts.
Ba'al: Yes, that he is.
Host: Don't you think it's about time we...
Ba'al: Left?
Host: Yes.
Ba'al: Yes.

but baal mentions it a lot... i think he's a smart cookie... more intellectual than most of the goauld

All those cool gravity toys, for instance. Very clever.

though i admit i love when jack's like "that it? just baal?" lol... baal, smug as ever... though jack kinda makes a good point... baal doesn't go on and try to play the "i'm your god" game (early signs that he doesn't erally buy into it or even care) and doesn't say his name like he's some magnificent being that jack should be praising and bowing down to.... he just says "i am baal" nice and simple... GOTTA love this guy

And I liked how he reacted to Jack not knowing the meaning of impudence. He just smirks and lets go of the knife!

actually i would go so far as to say that he may be sadistic sometimes, but an actual monster he isn't... not even in abyss torturing jack... a true monster would have just killed him again as soon as he got an answer...

You're right, monster is the wrong word. Ba'al enjoys his job, simple as that.

no, baal DOES want the power over the other system lords and such (no doubts there ) but he's manipulative IN PLACE of being cruel... this is why i say he's more intellectual and has a good side to him....

I'm thinking that good isn't quite the word that I'm looking for, though.

why this is i doubt we'll ever know, but we can always speculate maybe he really likes the earth humans on some level... cept jack i guess... lol... "o'neill! the thought of that makes me sick!" lol... he KNEW jack finally remembered and wasn't tellin...

i loved how he said "i feel it"... see, the guy has feelings and follows his gut... ANUBIS wouldn't do that

What we need is a Ba'al episode. More Ba'al, please!