Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[JanSam]

Sky I feel for ya!

Spoiler:

I had a boss like that last year.....fortunately she transfered out. Unfortunately she wrote my review before she left; leaving it for my new boss who happened to be someone that was my supervisor for a different position a few years before.....he would read what she wrote and say....."I'm sorry I have no idea where she got that from." It's much nicer now.....new supervisor leaves me alone to do my job and just checks in with me once a week to see if I need anything from him.

Yeah having someone who doesn't support you isn't fun and makes your life miserable. Poor Sam.

[rderoch]

I suppose this is a "me too" post. And I suppose it's a little odd to feel bad for a fictional character--but isn't our admiration for the Sam Carter character why we're all here?

I get what tptb are trying to do with Robert Picardo's character. Only an actor as good as RP could make Woolsey-the-Bureaucrat as watchable and interesting as he is.

But....

Spoiler:

I still feel that that the character of Sam Carter was treated shabbily by the writers and producers. And to some extent I feel bad for AT as well (although I'm guessing she herself is probably not bothered).

In every other case when a regular character was written out of the Stargate Franchise--either for 'artistic' reasons or because the actor wanted to move on--that character got a positive send off. Sometimes it was a great death (or ascension) scene, sometimes a great sacrifice, sometimes an extended goodbye--and even when characters left off camera, as with O'Neill and Hammond, we were told they'd been promoted. I.E. The franchise went out of its way to show that the character was appreciated and valued in the fictional world they'd created.

But Sam Carter? The only regular character to carry through both parts of the franchise? Sam Carter, played by an actor universally lauded for her professionalism and humanity by cast and crew? What happens to her? Daivy is right. She gets "relieved of command" in the most humiliating way possible--publically, and in front of subordinates.

Yes, it was nice that the regulars on "Atlantis" had a little chat about Sam to establish that she was "a victim of her own success" and to provide motivation for putting Woolsey in her place. As I said, I get what tptb are doing with Woolsey--the need for protocol, the problems with protocol, and his struggle to find a balance.

But I still don't get what they did to Sam Carter. They couldn't have given us a line to indicate that while she was initially shocked (and she was!), she let it roll off her? or that she'd been offered her choice of assignments on Earth? or something else to indicate that the fictional world valued her contribution--not just her workmates at the watercooler. (Thanks for that image, Celandine.)

Bucky

Very good points. I'm hoping that with future eps and movies everything will be explained and we'll all feel good about the final outcome.

Of course.

Spoiler:

That comment could also be taken as Amanda being lucky enough to have 2 shows that wanted her. Doesn't bother me much, it's actually kind of funny, them slipping that in.

suse

I hadn't thought of that, but you're right!

Basically I agree with these points...I have my own ideas on what happens to Sam now, which I think will serve her much better than being on Atlantis (much as I loved her there), so how can I truly be upset?

Spoiler:

The whole episode, in my mind, was in direct contrast to Sam's first on Atlantis. She was kind and professional, Woolsey couldn't manage even that—that seemed to be the obvious comparison TPTB were making.

I loved Teyla and her baby, and Carson was very nice to see again. But really, this was a dull episode mostly. A couple good scenes, but mostly more bleh than any other SGA episode I can think of except The Tower.

Spoiler:

You reminded me of another moment I liked. Shep's sarcastic comment about "nice speech". He was obviously comparing Woolsey's arrival to Sam's.

Not surprised YOU would be the advocate for the devil. In all seriousness however:

Spoiler:

I have no objection to the IOA taking over but to the way it was written. No real reason and having Woolsey just blurt it out in front of others. Shows no respect for Sam and makes Woolsey look like a total jerk when then had consistently written him as improving since his first appearance.

Um....but....oh, never mind.

He has improved, but he's never been very tactful.

I know why i have sympathy for sam and what's happened to her

Spoiler:

in my job, we've been re-organized and rearranged. and now, my 'manager' is a person that can't do my job. Literally, he's a photographer, nto a videographer/editor. he simply cannot do my job. but he's my boss. and - to feel in control - he LOVES to break out the rule book and 'advise' us on what we may or may not be doing right. how we should do stuff, etc. (he's also so incompetant that he can't frelling get stuff done when it's due, but that's another story)

anyway, when i do my job i have two choices, run to him and spend time explaining to him what i'm doing, asking for him to 'advise' me, or just do it, knowing where hte rules are and what the boundaries are and then 'oh by the way, i got this one' once it's over.

i tend to do the latter a lot, just cause i don't have time to track him down and explain stuff to him

the issue that can crop up, however, i do something wrong, he'll deny all knowledge and it'll all by MY fault. I'm kinda on my own. and, honestly, his memory is so creative unless it's in writing, i don't think he'll back me.

i think sam, in jack and hammond, had a commander that was secure in their command, so they didn't feel disempowered by letting the subordinant do their job. they didn't feel the need to micromanage or nitpick or cling to the rules. they had faith in sam's abilities and let her loose, trusting her to do her job and do it well.

the IOA - and to an extent woolsey - are just the opposite. the cling to rules because they lack the skill, knowledge and ability to do what they're expecting others to do. rules are how they control. so they drive you nuts with rules because it makes them feel better.

its frustrating and demeaning to continually have to answer and justify yourself to people that have no idea what you're doing. they don't trust you and they don't respect you and your abilities.

that's what sam was facing for that last year. and, i think, woolsey will finally get a taste of his own medicine

but, in the course of the show, i think it shows just how much freedom and respect sam had, and how confident in their abilities jack and hammond were, that they didn't need to nitpick her, they just let her do her job

I think, personally, that's why i'm having such a knee jerk reaction to woolsey, i feel like i'm watching a show based on my own life - from a work aspect - and it's beyond frustrating

I think we've all been there at least once. Hopefully, you'll get someone better soon. Or maybe become the someone.

I feel for you, Sky, I had a boss like that once, what a nightmare!! Fortunately he was fired after several months, but my frustration in those months were more than all the years combined. That's why I thought Sam being the commander was the best choice. Her knowledge, capability and confidence would enable her subordinates to do their jobs well. Loved a boss who understands and trusts me more than the rules.

The Seed -

Spoiler:

It was exremely painful watching the last scene in S & R. I thought I would stop watching SGA, but still turned on my TV last night. I am glad I did, because I felt much better after the briefing room scene in the Seed. I liked the reasons given, though non-officially. As for Sam's next job, I don't think the TPTB knows.

I feel sorry for the Atlantis folks that have to work with Woolsey on a daily basis. He was decent last night, *forced* into breaking the rules half a dozen times. Given the choice of saving lives/city and rules, he did choose life/city. However it would drive me *insane* having to explain my every move to him because he does not understand and trusts rules more than people.

Spoiler:

It will be very interesting to watch his character this season and the changes he will have to make in his views. I'm betting he's going to have a much more flexible outlook on things when all is said and done, or at least a lot more respect for the people he's been hounding all these years.

It would be cool if he made an appearance in an SG-1 movie and apologized to all of them for the bureaucratic hell he had put them through.

[mapsc]

The Seed, S & R

Spoiler:

The speculation by Shep & company on the leadership change was nice. But that's all it was, speculation. All we really know is what Woolsey said in S & R(the skillset comment).
It in no way makes up for the last scene of S & R. My SGA viewing days are over. Although I'll probably will tune in to Ep 20, if Sam makes an apperance. An appearance which I fully expect to be of the "cameo" variety.

So, what's next for Sam?

SG1 Leader: not a chance
SG1 2Ic : that's my bet(in any future SG1 movies, her year on Altantis will be ignored)
SGC Commander: Colonel's don't run the SGC and it wouldn't work for future SG1 movies
SGC 2IC: I could live with this. She could go out with SG1 on an as-needed basis(say, future SG1 movies).
Ship Commander: I could also live with this. Future SG1 movies are more likely to involve a ship rather than the stargate(see S9 & S10)
Command of R & D at Area 51: I would view this as "Sam can't command on the front lines, so let's banish her to Area 51 and let her command a bunch of scientists.

Sam's a Colonel. She belongs and is needed on the front lines.

Mike

[majorsal]

I've been enjoying the AT and MW banter on the Continuum screening video on the main GW page. Very fun. (Warning: spoilers abound for Continuum)

suse

i 'finally' watched it (was afraid they'd show scenes from the movies). i loved seeing amanda and enjoyed the amanda-martin quips!

amanda and martin talked over each other at one point, but i'd love to know what insults they were saying about one another.




sally

[majorsal]

I suppose this is a "me too" post. And I suppose it's a little odd to feel bad for a fictional character--but isn't our admiration for the Sam Carter character why we're all here?

I get what tptb are trying to do with Robert Picardo's character. Only an actor as good as RP could make Woolsey-the-Bureaucrat as watchable and interesting as he is.

But....

Spoiler:

I still feel that that the character of Sam Carter was treated shabbily by the writers and producers. And to some extent I feel bad for AT as well (although I'm guessing she herself is probably not bothered).

In every other case when a regular character was written out of the Stargate Franchise--either for 'artistic' reasons or because the actor wanted to move on--that character got a positive send off. Sometimes it was a great death (or ascension) scene, sometimes a great sacrifice, sometimes an extended goodbye--and even when characters left off camera, as with O'Neill and Hammond, we were told they'd been promoted. I.E. The franchise went out of its way to show that the character was appreciated and valued in the fictional world they'd created.

But Sam Carter? The only regular character to carry through both parts of the franchise? Sam Carter, played by an actor universally lauded for her professionalism and humanity by cast and crew? What happens to her? Daivy is right. She gets "relieved of command" in the most humiliating way possible--publically, and in front of subordinates.

Yes, it was nice that the regulars on "Atlantis" had a little chat about Sam to establish that she was "a victim of her own success" and to provide motivation for putting Woolsey in her place. As I said, I get what tptb are doing with Woolsey--the need for protocol, the problems with protocol, and his struggle to find a balance.

But I still don't get what they did to Sam Carter. They couldn't have given us a line to indicate that while she was initially shocked (and she was!), she let it roll off her? or that she'd been offered her choice of assignments on Earth? or something else to indicate that the fictional world valued her contribution--not just her workmates at the watercooler. (Thanks for that image, Celandine.)

Bucky

Spoiler:

i'm very glad they've chosen rob/woolsey to replace amanda/sam. he's totally different from sam and it doesn't feel like sam was pushed aside for a 'better' person and especially officer.

i will say, not all the characters that have been written out of stargate have had wonderful exits (weir). but you know what? what if this episode *isn't* supposed to be sam's exit from stargate? yes, i'd LOVE to know more of what this was like for sam *from sam's perspective*, but i just think they didn't have time to handle it. or, they're waiting until her next appearance to let some things reveal. it'll sure bring me back to watch.

i'm far from 'thrilled' about how things were done, but i'm far from unbelievably irked too. i think there's still potential for some interesting *sam* stuff in the future, especially the way her leaving was left open-ended.


sally

[silly sally]

The Seed, S & R

Spoiler:

The speculation by Shep & company on the leadership change was nice. But that's all it was, speculation. All we really know is what Woolsey said in S & R(the skillset comment).
It in no way makes up for the last scene of S & R. My SGA viewing days are over. Although I'll probably will tune in to Ep 20, if Sam makes an apperance. An appearance which I fully expect to be of the "cameo" variety.

So, what's next for Sam?

SG1 Leader: not a chance
SG1 2Ic : that's my bet(in any future SG1 movies, her year on Altantis will be ignored)
SGC Commander: Colonel's don't run the SGC and it wouldn't work for future SG1 movies
SGC 2IC: I could live with this. She could go out with SG1 on an as-needed basis(say, future SG1 movies).
Ship Commander: I could also live with this. Future SG1 movies are more likely to involve a ship rather than the stargate(see S9 & S10)
Command of R & D at Area 51: I would view this as "Sam can't command on the front lines, so let's banish her to Area 51 and let her command a bunch of scientists.

Sam's a Colonel. She belongs and is needed on the front lines.

Mike

Actually Sam and Daniel are too valuable assets to be risked on the frontline now that the Ori threat is gone...

[majorsal]

Just watched/listened to the above. It's awesome. I get chills every time I hear this song. Read "Don Quixote" many years ago and have a sort of soft spot in my heart for it and this song. Does anybody know who the actor/singer is performing the song? He looks REALLY familiar, but I can't quite figure out where I've seen him before - and he has an awesome voice.

i don't follow broadway, but i 'think' the actor is brian stokes mitchell. i recognized the actress, but i can't spell her last name. (mary elizabeth mas-big italian name spelling. i can't spell or pronounce carmin's (jacob) last name either.

when you really put those lyrics to our sg1 team, they have an even bigger meaning and impact.



sally

[majorsal]

LOL at the irony of your 12,000th post being you

CONGRATS ON 12,000!

ALSO A GOOD TIME TO TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO THANK YOU FOR STARTING THIS WONDERFUL THREAD!

my 12000th post was on the shipper thread. i don't like my milestones to be ranty/whiny posts.

thanks on the congratz! and thanks to others too, which i can't green with thanks.




sally

[Erin13]

:Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio. She's a great actress too. Movies she's been in; The Abyss, Limbo, Robin Hood (with Kevin Costner), The Color of Money (with Paul Newman)...

[mapsc]

Actually Sam and Daniel are too valuable assets to be risked on the frontline now that the Ori threat is gone...

I have a feeling a new threat will emerge.

Mike

[majorsal]

The Seed, S & R


So, what's next for Sam?

SG1 Leader: not a chance
SG1 2Ic : that's my bet(in any future SG1 movies, her year on Altantis will be ignored)
SGC Commander: Colonel's don't run the SGC and it wouldn't work for future SG1 movies
SGC 2IC: I could live with this. She could go out with SG1 on an as-needed basis(say, future SG1 movies).
Ship Commander: I could also live with this. Future SG1 movies are more likely to involve a ship rather than the stargate(see S9 & S10)
Command of R & D at Area 51: I would view this as "Sam can't command on the front lines, so let's banish her to Area 51 and let her command a bunch of scientists.

Sam's a Colonel. She belongs and is needed on the front lines.

Mike

i'd rather not have sam commanding sg1 now, because i'd feel 'that' would be a step back from what she had at atlantis. i sure as heck wouldn't want her going back to second in command.

the three i bolded are the only ones i would be happy with.

i'd love to hear from someone in the military (or used to be) on how the military would take the ioa dismissing sam from command. would *they* look at it as a slight against sam's commanding skills?




sally

[SunKrux]

I've been lurking and too busy to join in until now. To that end...In light of the OT discussion around Vala...I'd like to remind all Samandans that there are SEVERAL Samandans who happen to enjoy and like Vala just as much as we like Sam. It breaks my heart that some here feel it's perfectly ok to diss on Vala (or any other character you might not like) here. So much for "kindness reigns here", imho.

I'm not saying folks have to like Vala, but please, no need to go on at length about why you don't like her. We all get it. Heck even I had issues with her at first, but then they toned those down and I rather like Vala. Thus ends my reminder. Thank you for listening.

[Erin13]

How about Sam commanding an off world site in this galaxy? Like whatever the current Alpha/Beta site is. Those are usually smaller but that doesn't mean they have to be. They could beef them up and start an "off site" Area 51 or something similar. Just a thought.

[hedwig]

How about Sam commanding an off world site in this galaxy? Like whatever the current Alpha/Beta site is. Those are usually smaller but that doesn't mean they have to be. They could beef them up and start an "off site" Area 51 or something similar. Just a thought.

Oooh, I like that idea. Commanding an earth colony. Or the other idea ... of commanding one of earth's spaceships. She'd be great at either.

[majorsal]

:Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio. She's a great actress too. Movies she's been in; The Abyss, Limbo, Robin Hood (with Kevin Costner), The Color of Money (with Paul Newman)...

i can say her last name (unlike carmin's ... am i spelling his first name right?), but i just didn't know how to spell it and didn't want to butcher it.

i LOVED 'abyss' and i soooooooooooooooooo wish amanda (and rda) would have been in that movie! my fave scene is when bud is trying to resuscitate lindsey. *sighs*



sally