Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Skydiver]

(((DEEJAY)))

Good to see you here!

How do you guys get the big font and color? I tried the size dropdown, but nothing is showing.

hilight what you want to change, font or color wise, then click the color or size you want, the programming will put in the code for you

[Chelle DB]

My home computer crashed and I have been computerless on and off the last few days. I think a dragon ate my hard drive.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

Well, come to think of it...there are a few dragons in the thread...I've noticed them here and there...what's with the dragons????

Thanks to eagle-eyed Chelle, I wouldn't even have noticed my 6300th post
Hmmm...I wonder what profound words of wisdom came with that post

All 6300 means is Mandy is a
BLABBERMOUTH!
But we like her anyway.

Only suse could get away with calling Mandy a blabbermouth!!
And yes...we like her...maybe even love her....just a bit!!!
I'm sorry Mandy...I did forget to announce it rather loudly...but congratulations on your milestone!!!

They all look so blinkin' young!
I can't imagine Sam in later seasons being taken so easily, I only just bought it in season one, later? No way. I think the whole team is on a steep learning curve.
FF

...they do look young...that's because they were young!!!!
I think that as they went through each mission, they learned more about not only themselves but about each other and they learned more about how different each mission would be and how to better confront each new experience...I don't think anything could ever prepare anyone for the kind of job they had/have!...so I guess it was one heck of a learning curve for all of them...they aren't so complacent???...not sure if that's the right word...but you know what I mean right??

Not that I know of

Hey RoX...one of your dragon eggs has a big hole on it...I think it may be broken just a bit!!

Sam is arrogant? I don't see it. Example? Not the best diplomat, that I see. However I thought she was a great leader in Altantis.
Daniel has temper issues? Are you talking about his treatment of Vala?

I have a hard time viewing Sam as arrogant. Arrogant has a very negative meaning.
ar·ro·gant / Pronunciation[ar-uh-guhnt]
–adjective 1. making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud: an arrogant public official.
2. characterized by or proceeding from arrogance: arrogant claims.

Are you sure there's not another word your looking to use? Rodney McKay was arrogant in the episodes of SG-1 he played on, as well as many Atlantis episodes (though I must say he's calmed, some). I have never seen arrogance in Sam.

Confident? and rightly so?

I wasn't sure how I should add my five cents on the whole Sam being arrogant discussion...but...I just can not for the life of me, see it.
I too see the word arrogant as a negative comment.
To me, Sam acts with confidence, humility and reverence...she's strong and at times assertive...she's intelligent which can sometimes frighten those of lesser intelligence, she's courageous and she's respected.
And just to make it worse...she's beautiful.
Not so sure about the Daniel temper thing either...I mean I really hated the whole Daniel/Vala scene from Unending, but to me that just wasn't Daniel in oh so many ways. Just MHO though.

OK Deejay if you come online NO reading until tomorrow!

Spoiler:

Deejay!! I said you couldn't read it until Tuesday
ChopinGal who several of you saw at AT3 and is one of the original Samandans (i.e. been here since the thread started) sent me an e-mail asking me to pass along a message since she isn't able to come here right now. She just found out Samanda sent flower the first week in June and asked if she could PLEASE send more flowers from Samanda again! She too thinks a LOT of Dee and is really sorry she can't be online to express her love and support with everyone else!

(((ChopinGal)))

I miss CG...I do hope that she's ok. You know, there are a few Samandans I haven't seen in here in such a long time...like foreverSG1...Mini (who has popped in not so long ago but who's presence is sorely missed) and a few others but I can't think of names right now...where are you guys????

gOODNIGHT EVERYONE! I'm signing off now-will be back soon!

Ok...I figured out that you pop in around my lunch time...and I'm at work!!! BUT...I'm home-ish on Thursday so I am gonna be looking out for you then!!
Bee good Deejay...Beehive yourself!!!

There were some great "strong" Sam moments even in the first part of the S4 on Atlantis. Reunion and The Seer come to mind.
I don't know if this should be in spoilers or not, but just to be safe.

Spoiler:

Not many people stand up to Ronon, but she held her ground and reached some sort of understanding with him at the end (shame they ruined it later in the season for the sake of plot), and later with Weesly (yes I know that's not his name) she showed strenght of character in standing to her choise and knocking him down a peg or two.

Spoiler:

I loved how Sam dealt with Ronan in Reunion...I'm feeling rather confused about Ronan...I think I'm bordering on disliking the character...especially after Midway...I think however my favourite Ronan moment was when Teyla announced her pregnancy and he walked her to the infirmary.

I disagree. Sam's a brilliant scientist and a great soldier, however as a woman she doesn't impress me especially after the Pete arc. Amanda is right when she says that Pete played an important part in Sam's life as it shows us that ultimately Sam's just as prone to mistakes like to rest of us - Accepting a marriage proposal when you're not ready is a big No No. However Sam redeemed herself by canceling the engagement before it was too late. Still by her actions she caused a great deal of hurt and distress to Pete, Jack and even to herself...

I don't think I'll say anything much to this other than that making errors in life does not lesson one from being a woman...or man...in fact I would argue that it does the opposite.
Just remember that it takes two to tango...Sam may have erred in accepting the proposal...but was Pete taking things rather fast?? There were two people in that relationship...I don't put all the blame on Sam, nor do I put all the blame on Pete. As for Jack...totally different ball game all together.

Okely dokely...I told the kids I would be going to bed early tonight and seeings how I still have a few things to do before bed and it's already 10.15pm, I'm gonna choof. Night my fellow Samandans. Take care and stay safe!

(((Samandans)))

[MerryK]

He he, what a controversy I started! However, it is very interesting that you all automatically jumped to the "movie" definition of arrogance—someone who is always touting their own greatness, like Mckay. Arrogance more often comes in the form of someone who just naturally assumes that they're right and others are wrong, which we see Sam do on several occasions with other scientists. There are times when she is hesitant, because as I said, she doesn't have a huge arrogance problem, but there are certainly occasions where it's blatantly obvious to me. 48 Hours is a good example.

And as for her leadership and diplomatic skills? She is great in Atlantis and several episodes in later SG1 seasons, but before then she was hesitant, unconfident, and worst of all showed it to her team. There were times when she was better and times when she was worse, and of course it was all understandable, but she's no Hammond, Jack, Sheppard, Weir, Landry, Reynolds, Lorne, or even Mitchell, not until she gets over to Atlantis. And as for the diplomatic skills—she's accomodating, but not good with words like Daniel.

(Daniel's temper issues I thought were pretty obvious, as he shoots off at some of the least little things from Jack and Vala, and sometimes loses temper with upsetting aliens as well.)

As I stated (I thought) pretty clearly in my post, these are not huge flaws, but they should be addressed IMO in any deep study of who Sam is. If I came across a fic where Sam was totally humble about her scientific abilities, it would feel wrong. Same if she was strong and confident for a long period of time as a leader in season 1. Or if she was making speeches to foreign dignitaries.

[hisg1fans]

Well guys I just finished reading like 30 pages, and I clicked on the posts I'm going to talk about, added them with the ones I had before, now I have

Spoiler:

70

pages on Microsoft word to catch up on . I'm going to try and cut that down a bit, and as soon as I'm done with school on thursday, I'll be coming by more often. . But I'd do 1000 for you guys, and of course, our Amanda Tapping




Good night Deejay . Speaking of which, I'm going to bed too.

Thank you for your cooperation. Good night...

Hi Rocky. It is nice to see you back.

I hope you take this comment in the charitable spirit in which it is intended. As somebody who has a limited time to view the thread, I am asking you to please not add 70 pages of repeat posts. I miss a lot of discussions sometimes too. When this happens, I just try to pick one or two topics to add my two cents on, forget trying to 'quote' everybody, and then let the rest go knowing I was at least able to read such a great thread even if I couldn't actively participate at the time.

Sam and AT (Helen too!) are great and I just love all the discussions. The first few hundred pages of the thread are truly an incredible accomplishment for this wonderful group of people. I so wish I could have been here 'live' for the discussions. But I know others have moved on and I need to move with them.

Thank you for listening to my plea.
HiSG1Fans

[Skydiver]

In Red Sky, she was ordered to do what ever it took to get a lock on the coordinats.

what i've always attributed red sky to was pressure from above. Someone from the pentagon/joint chiefs, whatever, likely took issue with how - relatively -few planets were being kicked out, and so the pressure was to get more kicked out, thus red sky an tweaking the safety protocols

[hisg1fans]

what i've always attributed red sky to was pressure from above. Someone from the pentagon/joint chiefs, whatever, likely took issue with how - relatively -few planets were being kicked out, and so the pressure was to get more kicked out, thus red sky an tweaking the safety protocols

I've always attributed Red Sky to the 'stuff happens' rule. Lots of 'stuff' happened on SG1 just because Earth was exploring the unknown. Stuff happens when you explore the known, so even more stuff happens when you don't know about where you are going. If anybody can be called 'arrogant' or in the wrong, it would be all of Earth for venturing out into the universe. Sam was just one small instrument in the vast machine to accomplish that task.

[KatG]

Sam is arrogant—not very strongly so, not always, and not entirely unfounded, but it's there. She's not assertive enough with her relationships, acknowledging where she wants to push forward and where she needs to pull back—again, not the most obvious flaw, but definitely a problem. She's not the best diplomat or the best leader. Oftentimes she gets very involved with her work, and sometimes takes it to an unhealthy level—again, not very obvious, but definitely an issue. (Just for point of reference, I think Daniel has problems with temper, getting too involved with work, impatience, quick judgment, and harsh treatment of people he dislikes, to various degrees.)

Sam is arrogant? I don't see it. Example? Not the best diplomat, that I see. However I thought she was a great leader in Altantis.

Daniel has temper issues? Are you talking about his treatment of Vala?

I kind of see what Merry is saying. It is a kind of arrogance - she knows what she knows, she "flies by the seat of her pants" most of the time and she's usually right and she's not used to people challenging her.

For instance - in 48 hours, when McKay challenged her assumptions about the gate, she was taken aback. Yes, ultimately McKay was wrong, but Sam didn't even want to consider that what he was saying could possibly be true, because "she knew" she was right. She had to be ordered to "consider" what McKay was saying. Confidence or arrogance? There's a fine line there really. Really, to be that confident, one has to have a bit of arrogance - it can be subtle and not in your face, and a one can even be nice about it, but it's there.

[KatG]

I disagree. Sam's a brilliant scientist and a great soldier, however as a woman she doesn't impress me especially after the Pete arc. Amanda is right when she says that Pete played an important part in Sam's life as it shows us that ultimately Sam's just as prone to mistakes like to rest of us - Accepting a marriage proposal when you're not ready is a big No No. However Sam redeemed herself by canceling the engagement before it was too late. Still by her actions she caused a great deal of hurt and distress to Pete, Jack and even to herself...

That doesn't mean she's not a great woman, that means she's not a perfect woman. Which makes me like her even more, she's not perfect, she makes mistakes just like everyone else. Being a scientist and a soldier is easy, you have rules, you follow the rules, and that's it. But when it comes to matter of heart you have to make your own rules, set your own standards, what you can do. How many people have went into a relationship which they knew wasn't right for them but have tried to make it work, you think it's a No No, I think that it's real life. People end up hurt all the time. This aspect of her made her character more realistic to me then almost anything else. She wants life outside of work, something to help her escape the stress of saving the planet every other day. It wasn't fair to Pete how it ended, but he himself admited that he knew that things weren't right between them and that her heart wasn't fully into their relationship, and he could have ended it but he didn't he kept hoping that thing will work out, just like Sam did. And I believe she really loved Pete, otherwise she wouldn't have stayed with him as long as she did, the problem was that she didn't love him as much as she should have to make the "ever after" work. She tried but failed, and admited defeat in time before even more people were hurt.

This is just how I see it.

I agree with Jasmina. Sam did mess up with Pete, but that just makes her human. At the time, she was close to if not already 40 years old, she had the great career, the respect of her peers and superiors, she had experienced many amazing things, but she still felt she was missing something.

After Grace, she realized that if she wanted a life outside work, she was going to have to work at it. Life with Jack was not a possibility at the time, at least as far as she could see (non-shippers just ignore this part ), so she looked outside of work. In the beginning, Pete seemed like a relatively nice guy, he paid a lot of attention to her, he thought she was fantastic, he made her feel special - all that kind of stuff is rather intoxicating and in the beginning makes it easy to overlook the flaws in a person.

Really, I think Sam approached finding a relationship the way she approaches everything - she found a guy and focused on making it work, much like she does with her "projects". She's not used to giving up and 9 times out of 10 she makes those work. So, why should Pete be any different? Only thing is, a relationship isn't like a project. You're not dealing with facts and figures, you're dealing with emotions and it can get messy. Still I think it was an important step for Sam. In dating Pete, she found out what she didn't want, as much as what she did want. And even though people get hurt, that's kind of what dating is about right?

Thankfully, she "gave up" on the project before taking the ultimate step of actually marrying him and for Sam it was a growth process, a very important one.

[Chelle DB]

Hey!! I see Deejay lurking!!! WooHoo...how's that for timing!!!!!
Hey Deejay!!! *waves like a lunatic to try to get Deejays attention*

[PengYn]

That dog's saliva is just all over this thread!





*waves to Deejay*

[NearlyCircular]

I kind of see what Merry is saying. It is a kind of arrogance - she knows what she knows, she "flies by the seat of her pants" most of the time and she's usually right and she's not used to people challenging her.

For instance - in 48 hours, when McKay challenged her assumptions about the gate, she was taken aback. Yes, ultimately McKay was wrong, but Sam didn't even want to consider that what he was saying could possibly be true, because "she knew" she was right. She had to be ordered to "consider" what McKay was saying. Confidence or arrogance? There's a fine line there really. Really, to be that confident, one has to have a bit of arrogance - it can be subtle and not in your face, and a one can even be nice about it, but it's there.

But how much of Sam's behavior with McKay was due to his attitude? If he had come in as an outside expert and been more cooperative and less confrontational, would she have reacted the same way? If someone with no practical experience in my field of expertise immediately attacked my work, I'd be defensive, which is how I viewed Sam's initial reaction. After she had some time to consider his contentions, she might have been far more open to his suggestions if he hadn't been so arrogant and insulting himself. Sam probably knew better than anyone how jury-rigged the whole dialing program was, but it was the only thing we had, and it worked. McKay was right to point out the flaws, but the way he did it created the subsequent problems, IMO. He didn't have to praise the system or Sam, but he could have shown some respect.

NC

[Chelle DB]

Hehehe...but is so fun...my dog slobbered all over me tonight...couldnt help but want to share with my Samandan friends!!!

[scifithinker]

sounds like you have some writing to do, Sky.

I second that!

All in favor say "AYE!!"

suse

I'm always ready to agitate for more fic, especially from either Sky or Strix. Then again, I know you're both working on something right now, so (unlike Suse) I'll agitate quietly. If either of you are looking for a beta for your works in progress, let me know.

[jasminaGo]

But how much of Sam's behavior with McKay was due to his attitude? If he had come in as an outside expert and been more cooperative and less confrontational, would she have reacted the same way? If someone with no practical experience in my field of expertise immediately attacked my work, I'd be defensive, which is how I viewed Sam's initial reaction. After she had some time to consider his contentions, she might have been far more open to his suggestions if he hadn't been so arrogant and insulting himself. Sam probably knew better than anyone how jury-rigged the whole dialing program was, but it was the only thing we had, and it worked. McKay was right to point out the flaws, but the way he did it created the subsequent problems, IMO. He didn't have to praise the system, but he could have shown some respect.

NC

I agree. Also there was the fact that Simmons was the one who brought McKay into the SCG. Everyone knew Simmons is the bad guy and has his own agenda. Why should Sam trust someone who works for him?

[wibbling]

Hehehe...but is so fun...my dog slobbered all over me tonight...couldnt help but want to share with my Samandan friends!!!

LOVE your little devil!!!

.. and hi Deejay!!

.. sorry, didn't mean to shout...