Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Conn8d]

i don't know if i see it as arrogance per se, but maybe bravado is a good word. she's handicapped by the very fact that she's a she. thus, to the military folks, she's 'lesser'. not as good as the boys. There was a scene in an Elizabeth movie 'If i were born crested and not cloven you would not question me'....in other words, if i was a man, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

sam has had to, well not be pushy, but there's no room for 'umm, well, maybe.....' because if she does that, she's dismissed. So, she forges ahead and, if she's doubtful, she doesn't let it show, because if she does, they'll jump all over her.
even now, it's only after she gets comfortable with the guys, that she can say 'umm, actually i don't know what'll happen' and admit that some of her confidence is her 'faking it'

and she's been able to do this because, before she fakes it, she does all she can to be sure that her assertations are as possible and 'right' as she can.

I had to look up bravado. You are right, if Sam were a man, we would not be having this discussion. Same with her being made the commander of Atlantis in S4. Also no discussion if she were a man.

As for faking confidence, don't all leaders do? I remember Picard of StarTrek TNG admitted so to Beverly in Attached. I think all leaders must fake confidence in various degrees. Sam was so good at what she had to do, her bravado seemed real.

Bravado...that's a better word.

[Rocky89]

Hey, guys, just passing by to say, I'm going to update my Microsoft doc with with all the posts I'm going to be talking about, so far on the doc it's like 44 pages of multi-posts . But I'd do 1000 pages for Amanda . At least I'm almost done school, so I can come by here. School has been super busy . I even had to cut back my shifts at work, to get my work done, the last 2 months have been insane for me .

But I had 1 exam today, and I think I did pretty darn good . I have 2 left, so I should be done by thursday. Despite everything I'm really going to miss my med class. Like today, me and 4 other girls went to Mcdonalds to buy my teacher food.

Before we left I asked her if she wanted a toy, and she said "yeah, that'd be nice" I know this may sound silly, but I owe a lot to my lap-top . No really, without it I wouldn't have been able to do a lot of the stuff I've done and do. Like school stuff, and write these posts, I'm using to write this post now. If anyone wants to know, here's what it looks like

Spoiler:

But it has this sceensaver

Spoiler:

Which is the same pic from my sig.

Well, I gotta read all last few pages to catch up, and add the best posts to my doc. Bye...

Well guys I just finished reading like 30 pages, and I clicked on the posts I'm going to talk about, added them with the ones I had before, now I have

Spoiler:

70

pages on Microsoft word to catch up on . I'm going to try and cut that down a bit, and as soon as I'm done with school on thursday, I'll be coming by more often. . But I'd do 1000 for you guys, and of course, our Amanda Tapping

gOODNIGHT EVERYONE! I'm signing off now-will be back soon!

Good night Deejay . Speaking of which, I'm going to bed too.

Thank you for your cooperation. Good night...

[RealmOfX]

I have a hard time viewing Sam as arrogant. Arrogant has a very negative meaning.

ar·ro·gant / Pronunciation[ar-uh-guhnt]
–adjective 1. making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud: an arrogant public official.
2. characterized by or proceeding from arrogance: arrogant claims.

Are you sure there's not another word your looking to use? Rodney McKay was arrogant in the episodes of SG-1 he played on, as well as many Atlantis episodes (though I must say he's calmed, some). I have never seen arrogance in Sam.

Childish, yes, and maybe even insolent in its own right, when she was arguing with a superior...but never arrogant.

LOL I was just about to post something along these lines when I thought I'd better turn the page and read all the replies before posting.

Now a couple of people are looking for a different word to use but if there are still some people who think that Sam is arrogant (which is totally OK ) would they mind please providing an example of when they think Sam was arrogant so that I can attempt to see where you are coming from. I'm really curious to see what other people are labelling as arrogance and my curiosity stems from the fact that I simply don't see it and I'm wondering if I'm missing some signs (which happens quite often) or if we're merely interpreting things differently.

I must admit that my first immediate snarky thought when I read that someone thought that Sam was arrogant was "Nuh Uh!! Go read the dictionary - you'll find McKay's mug shot not Sam's!!" but then I got to thinking about what other people were seeing and I got really curious.

[NZNeep]

Confident? Self-assured, maybe?

[Conn8d]

LOL I was just about to post something along these lines when I thought I'd better turn the page and read all the replies before posting.

Now a couple of people are looking for a different word to use but if there are still some people who think that Sam is arrogant (which is totally OK ) would they mind please providing an example of when they think Sam was arrogant so that I can attempt to see where you are coming from. I'm really curious to see what other people are labelling as arrogance and my curiosity stems from the fact that I simply don't see it and I'm wondering if I'm missing some signs (which happens quite often) or if we're merely interpreting things differently.

I must admit that my first immediate snarky thought when I read that someone thought that Sam was arrogant was "Nuh Uh!! Go read the dictionary - you'll find McKay's mug shot not Sam's!!" but then I got to thinking about what other people were seeing and I got really curious.

Umm...yeah I think arrogant may not be the right word...

Times when she was maybe too confident would be Red Sky in bypassing the dialing protocol, and I guess Gemini in trusting RepliCarter, and their ability to contain relpicarter.

That said I wouldn't be critical to either situation because in Red Sky she was just doing her job and getting things done to achieve a lock. And in Gemini it just shows her humanity and compassion. I mean based on their previous interactions with the relicators the situation should have been handled differently. RepliCarter was created by Fifth, who blamed sam for betraying him. It is logical that his version of Sam would not be exactly the same as the real version that broke his heart (as he sees it). But Sam thought she had the situation under control, and her relicator escaped, and became a threat. Her actions, while allowing her Repli self to gain immunity to their weapons, illustrated the thing that separates her from her Repli-self.
And really who wouldn't trust an an appearant exact copy of yourself?

[jasminaGo]

Umm...yeah I think arrogant may not be the right word...

Times when she was maybe too confident would be Red Sky in bypassing the dialing protocol, and I guess Gemini in trusting RepliCarter, and their ability to contain relpicarter.

That said I wouldn't be critical to either situation because in Red Sky she was just doing her job and getting things done to achieve a lock. And in Gemini it just shows her humanity and compassion. Her actions, while allowing her Repli self to gain immunity to their weapons, illustrated the thing that separates her from her Repli-self.
And really who wouldn't trust an an appearant exact copy of yourself?

In Red Sky, she was ordered to do what ever it took to get a lock on the coordinats. And I agree about Gemini. RepliCarter was a copy of her, right down to her memories and feelings. I think Sam believed that she's not capable of doing such evil, thus her copy shouldn't be evil also. I also think that this ep hit Sam harder then it was shown, not just the guitl she felt over letting the Replicator escape, but there was also a lot selfdiscovery. Could she do the same things the Replicator did, if pushed too far can she turn against her friends?

But none of this is arogance. And I'm curious too about where people saw that. For that matter I'm curious about why people think she's not a good leader?

She didn't get much chance to show her skills in SG1 but I think that on Atlantis she did amazing job with what she was given. She trusted her people (who've been there longer then her), took their advice, but in the end she made the decisions and stuck to them.

[Conn8d]

In Red Sky, she was ordered to do what ever it took to get a lock on the coordinats. And I agree about Gemini. RepliCarter was a copy of her, right down to her memories and feelings. I think Sam believed that she's not capable of doing such evil, thus her copy shouldn't be evil also. I also think that this ep hit Sam harder then it was shown, not just the guitl she felt over letting the Replicator escape, but there was also a lot selfdiscovery. Could she do the same things the Replicator did, if pushed too far can she turn against her friends?

But none of this is arogance. And I'm curious too about where people saw that. For that matter I'm curious about why people think she's not a good leader?

She didn't get much chance to show her skills in SG1 but I think that on Atlantis she did amazing job with what she was given. She trusted her people (who've been there longer then her), took their advice, but in the end she made the decisions and stuck to them.

I wish that they had shown us more fallout from Gemini.

I wanted sooo much to see more leader Sam. I think she's an awesome leader and feel like I was jipped twice out of really seeing it. First as leader of Sg1, I mean I like Cam, but I wish that Sam had been the leader, and again with the slow start to Atlantis. By the latter half of season 4 of atlantis it felt like she was finally coming into form.

[wibbling]

gOODNIGHT EVERYONE! I'm signing off now-will be back soon!

So sorry to have missed you yesterday Deejay; I was firmly tucked up in bed by the time you came online, blast the time difference!

Anyway, lovely to see you've been around again, and hope to coincide with you soon!

Much love,

W.xx

[jasminaGo]

I wish that they had shown us more fallout from Gemini.

I wanted sooo much to see more leader Sam. I think she's an awesome leader and feel like I was jipped twice out of really seeing it. First as leader of Sg1, I mean I like Cam, but I wish that Sam had been the leader, and again with the slow start to Atlantis. By the latter half of season 4 of atlantis it felt like she was finally coming into form.

There were some great "strong" Sam moments even in the first part of the S4 on Atlantis. Reunion and The Seer come to mind.

I don't know if this should be in spoilers or not, but just to be safe.

Spoiler:

Not many people stand up to Ronon, but she held her ground and reached some sort of understanding with him at the end (shame they ruined it later in the season for the sake of plot), and later with Weesly (yes I know that's not his name) she showed strenght of character in standing to her choise and knocking him down a peg or two.

[Conn8d]

There were some great "strong" Sam moments even in the first part of the S4 on Atlantis. Reunion and The Seer come to mind.

I don't know if this should be in spoilers or not, but just to be safe.

Spoiler:

Not many people stand up to Ronon, but she held her ground and reached some sort of understanding with him at the end (shame they ruined it later in the season for the sake of plot), and later with Weesly (yes I know that's not his name) she showed strenght of character in standing to her choise and knocking him down a peg or two.

Loved Reunion and The Seer! And agree with the spoiler. I also liked her in Be All My Sins, Trio, Midway, both Kindreds and The Last Man. I guess in the latter half I felt that she'd sort of gained better footing with the new position and asserted heself more. Which makes perfect sense after a period of getting used to a new job.

[sbz]

The whole question of arrogance is an interesting one. While it's certainly not a word I'd ever apply to Carter and any degree of arrogance pales in comparison to McKay, I can understand how some people might see it. But I think supreme self-confidence is a much better way to put it. And I don't think it's just because she's a woman and has to not doubt herself lest others dismiss her out of hand; I think a huge part of it is that once Carter was on SG-1 and in the field she couldn't afford to doubt herself. The things she did, the decisions she made, her theories etc very often saved their lives. And if she was wrong, well, more often than not if they hadn't done anything they were dead anyway. So none of them could afford to have her doubt herself for even an instant when so often time was of the essence. Those times things did go horribly wrong - like Red Sky, which I don't think you can lay responsibility for at Carter's feet because she literally had no choice except to try - she always tried to fix it. And again, she couldn't let those failures paralyze her and make her incapable of going through with her plans/ideas because then she would have been incapable of doing her job. So she kept doing what she'd always done, coming up with theories and plans and just always thinking - she soldiered on and because she did, because she was always confident it would work despite the times it didn't, I think maybe some people could see that as arrogance.

[silly sally]

exactly I tend to think that deep inside, Sam is arrogant, but buries it.

Well - that actually makes her not arrogant...but hopefully you understand what I mean She's smart and she knows it...she just doesn't want other people to think she's arrogant about it

As for the other aspects in her life, I think she genuinely doesn't know how great she is, which makes her all the more loveable. I don't think Sam has ever really known how amazing she is as a woman, not a scientist or a soldier.

Maybe that's the distinction. As a professional, she has a level of arrogance, and she has every right to that...but as a woman, she is completely humble and unassuming

And that's why I fangirl her

*is very proud of self for so much delurking *

I disagree. Sam's a brilliant scientist and a great soldier, however as a woman she doesn't impress me especially after the Pete arc. Amanda is right when she says that Pete played an important part in Sam's life as it shows us that ultimately Sam's just as prone to mistakes like to rest of us - Accepting a marriage proposal when you're not ready is a big No No. However Sam redeemed herself by canceling the engagement before it was too late. Still by her actions she caused a great deal of hurt and distress to Pete, Jack and even to herself...

[jasminaGo]

I disagree. Sam's a brilliant scientist and a great soldier, however as a woman she doesn't impress me especially after the Pete arc. Amanda is right when she says that Pete played an important part in Sam's life as it shows us that ultimately Sam's just as prone to mistakes like to rest of us - Accepting a marriage proposal when you're not ready is a big No No. However Sam redeemed herself by canceling the engagement before it was too late. Still by her actions she caused a great deal of hurt and distress to Pete, Jack and even to herself...

That doesn't mean she's not a great woman, that means she's not a perfect woman. Which makes me like her even more, she's not perfect, she makes mistakes just like everyone else. Being a scientist and a soldier is easy, you have rules, you follow the rules, and that's it. But when it comes to matter of heart you have to make your own rules, set your own standards, what you can do. How many people have went into a relationship which they knew wasn't right for them but have tried to make it work, you think it's a No No, I think that it's real life. People end up hurt all the time. This aspect of her made her character more realistic to me then almost anything else. She wants life outside of work, something to help her escape the stress of saving the planet every other day. It wasn't fair to Pete how it ended, but he himself admited that he knew that things weren't right between them and that her heart wasn't fully into their relationship, and he could have ended it but he didn't he kept hoping that thing will work out, just like Sam did. And I believe she really loved Pete, otherwise she wouldn't have stayed with him as long as she did, the problem was that she didn't love him as much as she should have to make the "ever after" work. She tried but failed, and admited defeat in time before even more people were hurt.

This is just how I see it.

[samcarterrules]

Hey Everyone,

Thanks to eagle-eyed Chelle, I wouldn't even have noticed my 6300th post

Hmmm...I wonder what profound words of wisdom came with that post

LOL. Congrats!!

Sam is arrogant? I don't see it. Example? Not the best diplomat, that I see. However I thought she was a great leader in Altantis.

Daniel has temper issues? Are you talking about his treatment of Vala?

I don't see Sam as arrogant either, passionate and very eager to prove herself in a 'man's world' yes, even defensive at times but I think its understandable given the environment Sam probably grew up in. She would have her 'supporters' who would expect a lot from her (a lot of pressure on her at a young age not to let anyone down) and then a lot of people would 'hate' Sam for her intelligence and be quite jealous, so she might be a bit defensive as an adult. But I have never seen her as arrogant, IMHO.

awwww, very sweet SunKrux

hey! i'm at 2200 posts! sweet!

Congrats!!

I agree as well. In fact, I think initial disagreement is a positive thing, it forced people to think through their points thoroughly. Automatic agreement robs people of the chance of talking or thinking somrthing through.

((((Deejay)))) I agree, disagreement/discussion is a healthy thing and should be encouraged

That doesn't mean she's not a great woman, that means she's not a perfect woman. Which makes me like her even more, she's not perfect, she makes mistakes just like everyone else. Being a scientist and a soldier is easy, you have rules, you follow the rules, and that's it. But when it comes to matter of heart you have to make your own rules, set your own standards, what you can do. How many people have went into a relationship which they knew wasn't right for them but have tried to make it work, you think it's a No No, I think that it's real life. People end up hurt all the time. This aspect of her made her character more realistic to me then almost anything else. She wants life outside of work, something to help her escape the stress of saving the planet every other day. It wasn't fair to Pete how it ended, but he himself admited that he knew that things weren't right between them and that her heart wasn't fully into their relationship, and he could have ended it but he didn't he kept hoping that thing will work out, just like Sam did. And I believe she really loved Pete, otherwise she wouldn't have stayed with him as long as she did, the problem was that she didn't love him as much as she should have to make the "ever after" work. She tried but failed, and admited defeat in time before even more people were hurt.

This is just how I see it.

Yeah I agree that just makes Sam more 'real' for me and I loved seeing that side of her too.





Julia(samcarterrules)

[hisg1fans]

I have a hard time viewing Sam as arrogant. Arrogant has a very negative meaning.

ar·ro·gant / Pronunciation[ar-uh-guhnt]
–adjective 1. making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud: an arrogant public official.
2. characterized by or proceeding from arrogance: arrogant claims.

LOL I was just about to post something along these lines when I thought I'd better turn the page and read all the replies before posting.

LMAO Great minds think alike. I was just about to go look in the dictionary too, because never ever in 11 years, have I seen even a hint of arrogance in Sam. In fact, there were so many times she questioned herself I wanted to smack her upside the head and tell her to get a backbone (which Jack did on occassion as her commander should).

In Red Sky, she was ordered to do what ever it took to get a lock on the coordinats. And I agree about Gemini. RepliCarter was a copy of her, right down to her memories and feelings. I think Sam believed that she's not capable of doing such evil, thus her copy shouldn't be evil also. .....But none of this is arogance. And I'm curious too about where people saw that. For that matter I'm curious about why people think she's not a good leader?
She didn't get much chance to show her skills in SG1 but I think that on Atlantis she did amazing job with what she was given. She trusted her people (who've been there longer then her), took their advice, but in the end she made the decisions and stuck to them.

I'm wondering this too. Sam was, and is, a great leader. Even as second-in-command, she stepped in when the time called for it and always brought her team home and usually with a win. She questioned the colonel, respectfully, when she disagreed or saw a better way. And, she especially showed good leadership in S9&10 when she wasn't given command. She lead 'upwards' training Mitchell to be a SG Team Leader. Leading upwards takes tremendous sublty (sp?) and tact. Sam had it in spades.

The whole question of arrogance is an interesting one. While it's certainly not a word I'd ever apply to Carter and any degree of arrogance pales in comparison to McKay, I can understand how some people might see it. But I think supreme self-confidence is a much better way to put it.

I wouldn't say she had 'supreme' self-confidence either. IMO, she questioned herself too many times. I would agree she does have self-confidence for it to be 'supreme' though.